Pops

Rich Oliver

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #1

Well I'd like to see pops working as in real life. A pop of a hundred thousand being able to do a hundred times as much work as a pop of a thousand.

I'd also like to see some sort of limit on population growth, particularly the agricultural work force. At some point diminishing returns ought to set in.

Basically I'd like to see some sort of move to a realistic population development, that could then be exported, perhaps in simplified form to EU.

 

Beamed

American Tyrant

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #2

Rich Oliver said:

Well I'd like to see pops working as in real life. A pop of a hundred thousand being able to do a hundred times as much work as a pop of a thousand.

Click to expand...

Paradox made it not like that for a reason - it gave smaller populated countries absolutely no chance against larger ones.

 

MannheimCouncil

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #3

Are pops even in the game? I wouldn't be averse to see some sort of demographic pie chart instead of artificial population units.

Maybe a better way to give small nations a fighting chance would be an efficiency bonus based on population size and province numbers. One-province minors in EU3 could be quite effective in research. In real life the contribution to research by small countries like Sweden and Belgium was disproportionally high, too. Maybe that could be the way to go.

 

ComradeOm

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #4

MannheimCouncil said:

Are pops even in the game? I wouldn't be averse to see some sort of demographic pie chart instead of artificial population units

Click to expand...

From the references in the official announcement I suspect that POPs will make an appearance in some shape or form. Right now I'm thinking that Paradox are simply planning to use the AI to automate much of the process. Which I may well be very wrong about

If so though I'd be disappointed. I never really liked the artificial POP mechanic and would be much happier seeing it replaced by something more abstract

 

Davisx3m

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #5

I hope Pops will be in as the old vicky

 

RedRalphWiggum

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #6

I would imagine the automation of pops (and other things) will be optional, as inHoI3.

 

John Buford

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Feb 14, 2001

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #7

I hope there will be Pops in it again...but in a more realistic way. I hope for a more evolutionary approach than the promotion thing

 

Hardstuff

Benedìctus Deus in Sæcula

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #8

I found POPs to be a great aspect of the game. Very important in a Victoria II.

 

ComradeOm

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #9

RedRalphWiggum said:

I would imagine the automation of pops (and other things) will be optional, as inHoI3.

Click to expand...

The most obvious problem there (aside from issues with the very concept of POPs) is that with the huge number of provinces in V2, which will have roughly the same number as HoI3, manually controlling POPs on such a scale would be an absolute nightmare. As anyone who's played as China in Vicky can testify

 

RedRalphWiggum

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #10

ComradeOm said:

The most obvious problem there (aside from issues with the very concept of POPs) is that with the huge number of provinces in V2, which will have roughly the same number as HoI3, manually controlling POPs on such a scale would be an absolute nightmare. As anyone who's played as China in Vicky can testify

Click to expand...

Which is why it will be optional (I bet). Dont forget, Vicky is a game that inherently appeals to micromanagement freaks, so that mightn't be as offputting to some people as it would be to you. Playing as China? Automate it. Playing as Serbia? Don't.

 

Tecnócrata

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #11

I'm pretty sure that automation will not be optional, judging from the boss' ironic comment in another thread.

 

ComradeOm

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #12

RedRalphWiggum said:

Which is why it will be optional (I bet). Dont forget, Vicky is a game that inherently appeals to micromanagement freaks, so that mightn't be as offputting to some people as it would be to you. Playing as China? Automate it. Playing as Serbia? Don't.

Click to expand...

You misunderstand, try playing as China in original Vicky with its countless number of POPs. Very few players can cope with more than a few years of gameplay because it is so mind-numbingly repetitive... even self-confessed "micromanagement freaks" have given up

Now given the role of AI aid in HoI3 its quite likely that automated managing of POPs (if they remain in the first place) can be turned on and off. That seems to be built into the engine

 

Temrek

I haz custom title!

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #13

Another option might be to have pops be controlled on a regional level, but still based in a province (which only matter when another nation conquers that province). I would definatly love to see a better interface then the rather horrible one in vicky.

 

O

ollobrains

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #14

i think some tun off - turn on automation and AI involvement is a good start, using the HOI3 engine as a baseline as well

 

RedRalphWiggum

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #15

ComradeOm said:

You misunderstand, try playing as China in original Vicky with its countless number of POPs. Very few players can cope with more than a few years of gameplay because it is so mind-numbingly repetitive... even self-confessed "micromanagement freaks" have given up

Click to expand...

Well then, maybe using the 'theatre' system from HoI3, you could 'appoint a regional governor' to states of China and let the AI manage that, while you concentrate on the one you want?

 

Rich Oliver

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #16

Pops should only be controllable under Communist systems, even under the NEP, player control should be limited. I'd prefer pie charts rather Vicky style Pops as long as the game keeps track of combinatons eg:

Greek, Orthodox, Capitalists 220
Turkish Muslim Capitalists 115
Greek Orthodox Craftsmen 4012
etc.

 

Nikolai

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #17

King has indicated that pop conversion like in Vicky1 is not going to be in,.

 

unmerged(26464)

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• #18

Given the time period of the game, the POPs should be a tiger that the ruling government has by the tail, not a dog to be trained up.

 

unmerged(45977)

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• #19

I already posted this somewhere else but here it goes:

Get rid of the POPS. Yes, I loved POPS in Vicky but it made NO sense. How can a laissez faire government assign people to factories or even convert them to a different social class? Newly immigrated peasants that turn into capitalists overnight?

But as I said I loved the population aspect of the game so it should be back in part 2 but no POPs please . I'm not sure how to solve this. The best remedy would obviously be modeling every person on the world but I'm not sure PI/computers is/are up to that.

 

Rich Oliver

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• Aug 19, 2009

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• #20

Brons said:

The best remedy would obviously be modeling every person on the world but I'm not sure PI/computers is/are up to that.

Click to expand...

Now there's an idea!

Maybe you could do it with dark age Britain: 2 million people, a modern computer might be able to handle it.