Features you'd like to see in Vicky 2 Megathread

Uni Maximilian said:

I think that the POP-split feature should be available from 10.000-15.000 units, not over 35.000 like Vicky. I think that was very problematic to smaller countries to industrialize.

Click to expand...

Ugh. The whole POP splitting thing was symptomatic of the fact that a POP's labour output was, bizarrely, disconnected from its size. Two POPs of 15k were more productive than one 30k POP. That's the problem that needs dealt with, IMO.

RedRalphWiggum said:

*First and foremost, this game HAS to have a really good tutorial. An interactive one, not one where you are merely shown the interface, one where you are actually ran through the steps of how to perform tasks

Click to expand...

YES. Noob friendly doesn't have to mean dumbed down.

Ideas which don't seem to have been mentioned yet; global trade based on supply and demand for goods. No more "world market" with an infinite capacity to absorb goods.

Relatedly, I'd like to see costs in money, rather than goods. I don't mean that costs shouldn't be measured in goods, but that they should be presented to the player in £. I.e., one does not go to Herr Bismarck and say "Herr Bismarck, here are a hundred thousand units of small arms and five million tins of spam. Go get me an army." One should say "Herr Bismarck, I require an army of 100,000 men," and the man in question should cast an eye over the stockpiles of guns and spam, look at the market prices for such things, do a little sum in his head and say, "Sir, I will then require £ XXXX".

Doh! I must have overlooked that when I read it .. Thanks for pointing it out!

I'd be happy if they just released vicky1 with a decent immigration system

Yes Autonomous, I agree. Pop size just HAS to have some effect on prouctivity. Also, more flavour, but instead of factories can ye call them companies? Its unrealistic to have 100s of 1000s of people working in one factory, but not for once company. We could also keep track of which capitalist owns which company. Not a huge impact on gameplay, but would be cool.

Autonomous said:

YES. Noob friendly doesn't have to mean dumbed down.

Ideas which don't seem to have been mentioned yet; global trade based on supply and demand for goods. No more "world market" with an infinite capacity to absorb goods.

Relatedly, I'd like to see costs in money, rather than goods. I don't mean that costs shouldn't be measured in goods, but that they should be presented to the player in £. I.e., one does not go to Herr Bismarck and say "Herr Bismarck, here are a hundred thousand units of small arms and five million tins of spam. Go get me an army." One should say "Herr Bismarck, I require an army of 100,000 men," and the man in question should cast an eye over the stockpiles of guns and spam, look at the market prices for such things, do a little sum in his head and say, "Sir, I will then require £ XXXX".

Click to expand...

I must say I think that is a very good idea.

is it actually confirmed that there is going to be POPs in a similar manner to v1? I would have thought it'd be much better to give a greater degree of abstraction - like a pie chart which just shows what percent of pops are workers, capitalists, soldiers etc. Having to deal with provinces with 100 pops is a nightmare.

As far as ideas and suggestions are concerned, I don't have anything really specific in mind right now, but generally, I wish that Vicky 2 would concentrate on improving the non-military aspects of the game. Victoria and Crusader Kings are my favorite Paradox games, because it's actually possible to play an interesting game without having to constantly fight wars or prepare for them. I don't need a bazillion new unit types or military micromanagement - leave that for HoI. I'd be much more interested in a more complex and dynamic political system that would have a more profound effect on various aspects of the game, particularly diplomacy along the lines of the earlier suggestion of having ideologies/political systems affect foreign relations.

In other words, I want Vicky 2 to build upon and improve those aspects that set it apart from other Paradox games. I don't want to see it turned into a 19th century HoI or EU.

The only thing i wonder is how will nations that do not exist in HOI3 right now - like say, the Ottoman Empire - will be represented in terms of ministers and generals? And cores? And country tags?

This is pretty great news. It suggests that all Vicky-area nations will have to be added into HOI3 somehow, which makes for alot of added possibilities for us HOI3 players!

If its anything like the CK---> EU2 conversion they will get added in a patch.

One more idea which came to mind. It'd be great if there was strict diplomatic restrictions. As someone in OT said a while back, it'd be great if there was something like Magna Mundi's HRE setup for Europe - that is, serious repercussions for starting wars and conquest in Europe. The game should be about nation building and colonising, not European conquest.

It took much diplomatic manoeuvring for the wars in the period to happen - securing guarantees of neutrality etc. If a country was to randomly invade other nations at will it would have surely been severely punished. No barbarism in the Victoria!

Wiking said:

Vicky 2 CE should have a monocle included.

Okay, serious suggestions coming up later.

Click to expand...

I support this!

Maybe they should offer a choice of monocle and top hat or monocle and sabre. So player's can choose to emphasize the military or economic side of the game

eiderdown said:

is it actually confirmed that there is going to be POPs in a similar manner to v1? I would have thought it'd be much better to give a greater degree of abstraction - like a pie chart which just shows what percent of pops are workers, capitalists, soldiers etc. Having to deal with provinces with 100 pops is a nightmare.

Click to expand...

I agree with that. Also: the one resource per province thing; IMO it would be nice to have the basic goods like agricultural products produced in most provinces and for some abstraction represent it like: Province A; 80% grain production, 10% lifestock, 5% fishing, 5% lumber. That way we would still have predominant production for provinces, but there wouldn't be the strange situation that smaller countries for some reason don't have any farms, etc.
This would be influenced by world market prices (people changing professions to what's more valuable) and laws (and maybe by globalization) and be limited by the potential of the province.
In non-command economies the population would fill factories of their own accord if they make a higher profit than their farms. You could influence this by subsidizing certain industries or tax agriculture higher to make people come to the factories.
If a province has just low value goods to produce there and/or the valuable ones are at capacity, people would move in their country to other provinces where high valued goods are not yet at their maximum. This also depends on laws - are people allowed to move freely?
This process should be gradual - the closer a high-value industry is and the higher the difference in wages (based on the profit/worker ratio), the faster people switch. If a factory opens in a province which produces just low-value agricultural goods, it would be instantly filling.

You could also pass laws to promote autarky, which we cost money to subsidize for instance agriculture in a industrialized nation, so that to a certain percentage the country could survive without trade. Into that you could tie the possibility of a trade blockade which would disconnect you from the world market, etc.

Just some of my ideas, I have lots more.

eiderdown said:

One more idea which came to mind. It'd be great if there was strict diplomatic restrictions. As someone in OT said a while back, it'd be great if there was something like Magna Mundi's HRE setup for Europe - that is, serious repercussions for starting wars and conquest in Europe. The game should be about nation building and colonising, not European conquest.

Click to expand...

Yes - some sort of very well-defined European diplomatic system is really a must. And I certainly second using Imperialism's economic model (and particularly the overseas investments in other nations bits) as inspiration.

Also, I'm speculating wildly that as the names on the map (including "Germany", "Poland", "Italy" and "Hungary") generally correspond to particular national units important in the period rather than states, this may indicate some sort of an underlying nationalism model...?

I remember the crippling thing about the Victoria-> HOI2 conversion was that the HOI2 AI was completely hardcoded to fight some sort of variant of World War II or else do nothing, which never really corresponded with the converted game. Is the HOI3 one cleverer and better at dealing with contextual developments?

Please have an similar ending screen as vicky 1 had. Vicky has the best ending screen of all paradoxian games.

Sarmatia1871 said:

Also, I'm speculating wildly that as the names on the map (including "Germany", "Poland", "Italy" and "Hungary") generally correspond to particular national units important in the period rather than states, this may indicate some sort of an underlying nationalism model...?

Click to expand...

I had a similar thought, but I'm pretty sure they're just relics of them using the HoI3 map as a reference point, and not really going to be in the ingame map.

Of course, everyone and a half will be wrong this early in development.

Will there still be events and desicions in hoi3 if you convert from Vicky 2? Example: If you took a game from eu2 to vicky or vicky to hoi2 you wouldn't get any events.

Beamed said:

Of course, everyone and a half will be wrong this early in development.

Click to expand...

This is very true.

Also, no suggestions in this thread will have any serious impact on the game development process, but at least it gives us all something to do.

This might be a bit touchy but realistic (and it's for dictatorships to pretend that history was nicer than it really was): atrocities. Those have always been a sad part of human history. I'm not saying that the player should be able to commit genocides - but if the government were fascist, there could be a random event like this. "The government attacks a people." That would bring additional risk to play with such governments, because naturally something like that would give other countries a casus belli.

Works other way around too. Humanitarian reasons are often said to be behind attacking totalitarian nations.