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I happen to recall the Kaiser's Offencive and the subsequent Allied-American pushed making significant headway while either side had the munitions and manpower to keep it going.

Odd. Because I happen to recall the Spring Offensive not making much headway at all in real terms - more than much else by that point, but still following the classic WWI model of some good initial progress followed by the defender reacting, exercising his mobility and concentration advantages, and halting the offensive.

As for the Allied subsequent offensive,

That's why the war in the West ended literally when one side was too exhausted to continue, rather than on any of the many times when offensives temporarily broke the front lines, whether with tanks, artillery, stormtroopers, or just mass human waves.

Germany in 1918 was pretty damn exhausted, but note that even so the Allies never made a decisive, blitzkrieg style breakthrough - that was still a logistical impossibility. Even the Hundred Days was slow and hard-fought - Germany never lost the ability to shift around its reserves more adequately than the Allies could exploit a breakthrough, they simply began to lack the numbers to send those reserves everywhere and so began to slowly cave in everywhere, rather than being broken through decisively.
 
Sure they could contain the offencive for a time but they could nolonger STOP the breakthoughs from occuring, before the best the allies could manage was maybe a few miles with tanks they could go for a few dozen miles.
 
I didn't use finland as doormat, he was at war with me so I took the oppurtunity, if he didn't want me to go through him to get around Georgia then he shouldn't have been at war with me. He dowed me and not vice versa.

Finland didn't DoW anyone. China and France Dowed Georgia and his allies.
 
Finland didn't DoW anyone. China and France Dowed Georgia and his allies.

The game doesn't work that way Golle, if we dow Georgia, Georgia gets a popup to decide to call his allies or not, his first mistake is calling you in.

Secondly YOU and his other allies get a pop up asking if you wish to honor the alliance or not, by clicking yes you essentially dow me, I did not click the declare war on finland button I clicked the declare war on georgia button, you clicked the declare war on china button.
 
Nope, I just clicked a button where my ally asked me to help him. As I expect my allies to help me, I will help them. Thats what allies do. When you DoWed Georgia you were well awere that Finland was allied to it and as I recieved no inquries of wheter I wanted to join the war, our stand is that you DoWed Georgia and Finland togheter.
 
Don't rush the norse god! Let him go at Baldur's Gait...
Because no one else has said it, that's really funny :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Nope, I just clicked a button where my ally asked me to help him. As I expect my allies to help me, I will help them. Thats what allies do. When you DoWed Georgia you were well awere that Finland was allied to it and as I recieved no inquries of wheter I wanted to join the war, our stand is that you DoWed Georgia and Finland togheter.
Given the geostrategical situation, you'd be better helping Georgia by not joining the war, and sending him expeditionary divisions instead, or so it seems...
 
Automatic button pressing is never a good idea. Finland ought to have thought about what really was its (and Georgia's) best interests when China and Finland declared war.

At the very least Finland should have guarded its border. I didn't see any Finnish troops on Sid's or any other screenshots, where were they? Did Finland even realize that he was at war?
 
Point granted on the Finnish front - if a front simply becomes too long for trench warfare, then it's too long. But I do disagree with your analysis of trench warfare.

In WWI, despite the name, the stalemate of trench warfare was not really due to trenches, literally. It was never impossible to break through the trench lines, it was impossible to exploit breakthroughs, because the defender (on whichever side) had a huge advantage in communications and logistics and so could move and concentrate troops much more effectively than the attacker. The massive trench lines were just a better way of defending that arose naturally once warfare had already become static due to the defenders natural mobility-and-concentration advantages on the Western Front. Note that in 1914, first the French stopped the German attacks, then the trenches started growing, not the other way around.

Armor didn't change this equation at all, nor did other breakthrough weapons such as stormtroopers or simply massed artillery. They just made it easier to do what was already possible, break the trench lines, but they didn't help with the real problem of the Western Front - that the attacker was unable to move and concentrate troops better than the defender irregardless of the trenches. That's why the war in the West ended literally when one side was too exhausted to continue, rather than on any of the many times when offensives temporarily broke the front lines, whether with tanks, artillery, stormtroopers, or just mass human waves.

This changed my view of WW1. Thank you.

I'm curious because the stack rule you've implemented would seem to give the mobility and concentration advantage to the attacker, when really, it was the defender that enjoyed these advantages (assuming relatively equal infrastructure, etc) up til the advent of motorized troops and the widespread military use of radio. But I guess it's a somewhat academic distinction for Vicky? :)

I would say the defender still has the mobility advantage. It is possible to break through the front (with a 60:20 advantage) but in the time it takes to occupy the territory you can concentrate you forces around the breakthrough or push it back.
 
I'm curious because the stack rule you've implemented would seem to give the mobility and concentration advantage to the attacker, when really, it was the defender that enjoyed these advantages (assuming relatively equal infrastructure, etc) up til the advent of motorized troops and the widespread military use of radio.
Yes this is my main criticism of the stack rule ATM, that it for no good reason favors the attacker. That being said, I think some kind of stack rule is needed but perhaps ours needs a little modification.

And furthermore secrets did not do this he did not pause or make a single sound but deliberately it seems waited until the end of the session before making any noise.

Its not a breach in rules if the other player is unwilling to excersize their rights.
I'm sick to death of this worthless argument.

Sid. Show me the rule that demands that the only way for a player to lodge a complaint regarding the stacking rules is to pause in-game, take a screenshot, and immediately point this out to the GM.

That's right, there is no such rule. So kindly keep your pie-eating facilities closed.

Secrets is exercising his right. He has brought forth proof. Let's leave it at that until KoM has something to say about it.
 
Given the geostrategical situation, you'd be better helping Georgia by not joining the war, and sending him expeditionary divisions instead, or so it seems...

At retrospect it would have been propably the best. We didn't have much to think about grand strategies when the DoW came tough.

Automatic button pressing is never a good idea. Finland ought to have thought about what really was its (and Georgia's) best interests when China and Finland declared war.

Well if you are being attacked on two sides by two powerfull foes, I think everyone thinks at that point that you need all the help you can get.

At the very least Finland should have guarded its border. I didn't see any Finnish troops on Sid's or any other screenshots, where were they? Did Finland even realize that he was at war?

All finnish standing troops were whiping frances arse in the western front :cool:
 
All finnish standing troops were whiping frances arse in the western front :cool:

French arses were thoroughly whipped. The fled the Finnish forces all the way into the heart of Georgia.
 
Well I won all the battles (two of them;)) which our units attended:rofl:
 
So Golle, you basically lost Georgia the war?

So it seems, Thougth In my books the reasons why are quite different and suprising, but Naturally I cannot go publick over them;)

But I doupt Georgia could have been any better situation without my participation...figthing a two front war isen't easy, even if there would have been poor warplayers against him. That is what Secrets repeatedly kept telling me when the war went down badly to him...and He did mention this well before Chinese troops started to use Finnish soil.

Oh, i actually suspect some sort of secret Finnish-Chinese agreement behind Georgia's back

Well lets just say that if the fate of Georgia would have gone differently back before Secrets premature withdrawal was canceled, this may not have been so far of the truth.;);):rolleyes:;);)

But as it stands, Finland is still loyal ally to the Secret's Georgia.
 
Georgia could probably have defended itself, too, by simply marching his own forces into Finland (they were allied) into defensible positions. Would have some very delicate balancing of the forces (he was fighting a two front war after all) but might have been doable.

At best Finland could have prepared a defensive line of fortresses to protect Georgia's northern flank, to be manned by Georgian troops in case of war. Might have stopped Sid altogether... or not. Sid himself said it took him 4 game-months to realize that Finnish central asia was wide open to his armies.
 
yeah, the overall idea of such exploiting of my land came to suprise to each one of us. No way could have neither of us ever anticipate it and prepare against it.
 
Yes this is my main criticism of the stack rule ATM, that it for no good reason favors the attacker. That being said, I think some kind of stack rule is needed but perhaps ours needs a little modification.


I'm sick to death of this worthless argument.

Sid. Show me the rule that demands that the only way for a player to lodge a complaint regarding the stacking rules is to pause in-game, take a screenshot, and immediately point this out to the GM.

That's right, there is no such rule. So kindly keep your pie-eating facilities closed.

Secrets is exercising his right. He has brought forth proof. Let's leave it at that until KoM has something to say about it.

And I'm sick to death with the illogical assumption that just because it isn't mentioned it isn't a rule.

You know WHAT it is? Common freaking sense If someone is breaking by accident or otherwise a rule that could have drastic effects on your current war you DO NOT simply let it happen and don't say anything what you need to do is pause the game and say something.

Secrets is not exercising his right hes hurting his and everyone elses in the futures right, if making the only way to report on this is to wait post session before you can do anything that it leads to the risk of massively screwing up whats happening in game this is only common sense varyar.

I'll use 2 ingame examples:

1- Secrets attacked me with 35~ someodd divisions from 1 direction Aksu -> Altay

71583590.jpg


I thought at the time it was 107 but he must have moved it into two separate stacks at the time, I was the defender clear proof that he attacked me my troops were already there.

Are you suggesting Varyar that the proper course of action would be to say nothing and do nothing and let him gain the advantage in the war and gain the upperhand? That's stupid, I paused and complained over teamspeak and ingame chat and this is when secrets finally noticed that finland was wide open.

2. Here's secrets with 47~ divisions all of whom were moving towards me, am I supposed to not even say a single thing about it Varyar?

96581129.jpg



3. Here's his original 100~ division stack.

2ch9j0m.jpg


Which he then split in two and marched half of it to Aksu, apparantly he didn't see my division already there.

What I am saying is that my breaking it were accidental, and not intentional and for the most part stayed within the spirit of the rule ie attacking from multiple sides.

Secrets we are to either believe did not see my divisions in case 3, divisions there for several days or deliberately moved 50 divisions at my units, we can choose to believe that his attack of 45~ at my other position is acicdent or deliberate, and we can choose to believe his 103 division stack is the most unlikely and weirdest auto deployment of divisions ever (I do not believe a single province would deploy 3/4's of Georgia's reserves) or deliberate, the only thing we could say about is that maybe it wasnt there for 2 weeks and it wasn't immediately next to the fighting front.

Point is in each three of these cases I only rectified them by at the time immediately pausing the game and informing the GM this is my right as a player and I excersized it, Secrets made not a single word about anything I may have alledgedly did and waited until after the war was clearly lost to say anything ladies and gentlement I present to you that this is possibly deliberate and that as such waved his rights to see compensation of rectification for his negligence at best and deliberate gaming of the rules at worst.
 
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