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The End Is Not Yet: MP 900-year game

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Foelsgaard said:
You only have a marginally better efficiency than me it seems. When do we see the vaunted 50% capitalist bonus?
Click to expand...
It's already in place, unless I've made a gross mistake. Do note that I currently have lots of idle workers due to the land lease thingy, once those end my efficiency will climb further. I've also neglected promoting clerks, so there's lots of untapped potential even in the Mecka of efficiency :D
 
Gollevainen said:
Well Falahk got the game minutes before the first session started;)

Anyway it's different thing to know the game mechanism than to play a conversion MP gmae and those who have done it before certainly have the edge...experience is a thing you cannot outrule.
Click to expand...

You are quite right, you can't. So I do not understand your complaint: You are objecting to skilled players getting more IC? Of course skilled players are going to win, otherwise you might as well play Yahtzee! (The children's game with dice, not the Australian reviewer.)

As has been pointed out, there is no difference between a small power having 80 and a big one 160, and the numbers being 160 and 320, modulo the five-team threshold at least. Except that the amount of resources in the world is roughly balanced for the vanilla amount of IC.

Whatever the system you will always have some percentage amount of the total IC in the world, and if others increase faster than you - zero-sum or not - then that percentage goes down. There is no benefit to making it a percentage of a dynamic number, and there is the disadvantage of mismatching to resources.

We did zero-sum industry in going from CK to EU3, and again from EU3 to Vicky; I see no reason to stop now.

Tech teams are, in the current version of the converter, picked at random, 30 to a nation, from the list of vanilla teams with skill >= 5. However, as Varyar said, we will be running a draft for the final version.

Incidentally, the current conversion is here if anyone is interested. Just click ignore on the error on loading. Resources, infrastructure, and airbases are not final, and since the year is 1905 units and techs are not representative.
 
I dont know about the mathematical education in your parts of the world, but are you sure everyone will understand "modulo"?
 
King of Men said:
As has been pointed out, there is no difference between a small power having 80 and a big one 160, and the numbers being 160 and 320, modulo the five-team threshold at least.
Click to expand...
What is the five-team threshold?
 
0-19 IC: I tech team
20-39 IC: two tech teams
40-59 IC: three tech teams
60-79 IC: four tech teams
80+ IC: five tech teams.

Edit: Its important to remember that if you lose the appropriate threshold IC, then the last tech team will be out of commission. Eg: if you have 80IC, and your fifth active tech team is researching, and get strat bombed to 79IC, you will have only 4 slots, and thus no fifth active tech team left.
 
Last edited:
King of Men said:
Incidentally, the current conversion is here if anyone is interested. Just click ignore on the error on loading. Resources, infrastructure, and airbases are not final, and since the year is 1905 units and techs are not representative.
Click to expand...

Damn France is rocking in that save: 350+ IC which is 100 more than Indonesia on second place and then China and Norway 50 IC behind Indonesia with their slightly sub 200 IC scores. I didnt check the manpower but boy some people are going to have a fun HoI game.....
 
20 IC per tech team IIRC.

Btw, KoM could you please post world maps and an update of TTL From Berserker to Battleship :) (I am subtly referring to this, post 154)
 
I don't bother arguing with people who don't understand 'modulo' - they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

It was pointed out to me that it's hard to do industrial planning for the diversity effect when you can't see the current percentages, so here's the sector sizes from the latest save:

Code: 
GER :
  ammunition_factory                            0.093
  artillery_factory                             0.017
  canned_food_factory                           0.064
  cement_factory                                0.049
  dye_factory                                   0.000
  explosives_factory                            0.026
  fabric_factory                                0.038
  fertilizer_factory                            0.059
  furniture_factory                             0.058
  glass_factory                                 0.050
  liquor_distillery                             0.016
  lumber_mill                                   0.072
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.035
  luxury_furniture_factory                      0.045
  machine_parts_factory                         0.038
  paper_mill                                    0.005
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.063
  small_arms_factory                            0.054
  steamer_shipyard                              0.013
  steel_factory                                 0.188
  winery                                        0.017
  Industrial modifier: 1.73244 9 0.188188
PRU :
  aeroplane_factory                             0.000
  ammunition_factory                            0.089
  artillery_factory                             0.010
  barrel_factory                                0.000
  canned_food_factory                           0.016
  cement_factory                                0.064
  dye_factory                                   0.003
  electric_gear_factory                         0.003
  fabric_factory                                0.097
  fertilizer_factory                            0.005
  fuel_refinery                                 0.015
  furniture_factory                             0.093
  glass_factory                                 0.161
  liquor_distillery                             0.029
  lumber_mill                                   0.027
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.001
  luxury_furniture_factory                      0.004
  machine_parts_factory                         0.023
  paper_mill                                    0.057
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.065
  small_arms_factory                            0.088
  steamer_shipyard                              0.006
  steel_factory                                 0.045
  winery                                        0.098
  Industrial modifier: 1.78353 9 0.1613
ITA :
  aeroplane_factory                             0.008
  ammunition_factory                            0.041
  artillery_factory                             0.007
  automobile_factory                            0.035
  canned_food_factory                           0.037
  cement_factory                                0.024
  dye_factory                                   0.013
  electric_gear_factory                         0.029
  explosives_factory                            0.072
  fabric_factory                                0.022
  fertilizer_factory                            0.056
  fuel_refinery                                 0.010
  furniture_factory                             0.065
  glass_factory                                 0.007
  liquor_distillery                             0.002
  lumber_mill                                   0.100
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.005
  luxury_furniture_factory                      0.079
  machine_parts_factory                         0.052
  paper_mill                                    0.004
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.056
  small_arms_factory                            0.013
  steamer_shipyard                              0.008
  steel_factory                                 0.228
  telephone_factory                             0.005
  winery                                        0.022
  Industrial modifier: 1.56957 8 0.228016
FIN :
  ammunition_factory                            0.109
  artillery_factory                             0.042
  canned_food_factory                           0.015
  cement_factory                                0.058
  clipper_shipyard                              0.000
  dye_factory                                   0.025
  explosives_factory                            0.055
  fabric_factory                                0.096
  fertilizer_factory                            0.025
  furniture_factory                             0.037
  glass_factory                                 0.075
  liquor_distillery                             0.062
  lumber_mill                                   0.106
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.019
  machine_parts_factory                         0.005
  paper_mill                                    0.070
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.032
  small_arms_factory                            0.026
  steel_factory                                 0.108
  winery                                        0.034
  Industrial modifier: 1.88216 9 0.109392
NOR :
  ammunition_factory                            0.026
  artillery_factory                             0.011
  canned_food_factory                           0.016
  cement_factory                                0.011
  dye_factory                                   0.031
  electric_gear_factory                         0.000
  explosives_factory                            0.036
  fabric_factory                                0.047
  fertilizer_factory                            0.029
  fuel_refinery                                 0.011
  furniture_factory                             0.084
  glass_factory                                 0.099
  liquor_distillery                             0.108
  lumber_mill                                   0.057
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.033
  luxury_furniture_factory                      0.012
  machine_parts_factory                         0.012
  paper_mill                                    0.006
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.074
  small_arms_factory                            0.016
  steamer_shipyard                              0.076
  steel_factory                                 0.125
  telephone_factory                             0.004
  winery                                        0.074
  Industrial modifier: 1.75484 8 0.125089
FRA :
  aeroplane_factory                             0.013
  ammunition_factory                            0.073
  artillery_factory                             0.026
  canned_food_factory                           0.045
  cement_factory                                0.074
  electric_gear_factory                         0.033
  explosives_factory                            0.054
  fabric_factory                                0.092
  fertilizer_factory                            0.056
  fuel_refinery                                 0.042
  furniture_factory                             0.008
  glass_factory                                 0.010
  liquor_distillery                             0.007
  lumber_mill                                   0.035
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.017
  luxury_furniture_factory                      0.005
  machine_parts_factory                         0.043
  paper_mill                                    0.001
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.069
  small_arms_factory                            0.047
  steamer_shipyard                              0.057
  steel_factory                                 0.180
  telephone_factory                             0.004
  winery                                        0.010
  Industrial modifier: 1.65554 8 0.180255
MOR :
  aeroplane_factory                             0.001
  ammunition_factory                            0.027
  artillery_factory                             0.012
  automobile_factory                            0.016
  canned_food_factory                           0.042
  cement_factory                                0.034
  clipper_shipyard                              0.010
  dye_factory                                   0.022
  electric_gear_factory                         0.064
  explosives_factory                            0.018
  fabric_factory                                0.049
  fertilizer_factory                            0.019
  fuel_refinery                                 0.015
  furniture_factory                             0.053
  glass_factory                                 0.092
  liquor_distillery                             0.078
  lumber_mill                                   0.046
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.037
  luxury_furniture_factory                      0.024
  machine_parts_factory                         0.041
  paper_mill                                    0.027
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.058
  small_arms_factory                            0.025
  steamer_shipyard                              0.017
  steel_factory                                 0.045
  telephone_factory                             0.020
  winery                                        0.108
  Industrial modifier: 1.58669 6 0.108321
CHI :
  ammunition_factory                            0.029
  artillery_factory                             0.020
  canned_food_factory                           0.026
  cement_factory                                0.020
  dye_factory                                   0.005
  electric_gear_factory                         0.000
  explosives_factory                            0.030
  fabric_factory                                0.036
  fertilizer_factory                            0.044
  furniture_factory                             0.066
  glass_factory                                 0.084
  liquor_distillery                             0.074
  lumber_mill                                   0.065
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.047
  luxury_furniture_factory                      0.053
  machine_parts_factory                         0.013
  paper_mill                                    0.020
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.070
  small_arms_factory                            0.017
  steamer_shipyard                              0.043
  steel_factory                                 0.184
  winery                                        0.056
  Industrial modifier: 1.64967 8 0.183519
NIP :
  ammunition_factory                            0.061
  artillery_factory                             0.020
  canned_food_factory                           0.032
  cement_factory                                0.018
  clipper_shipyard                              0.025
  dye_factory                                   0.011
  explosives_factory                            0.068
  fabric_factory                                0.043
  fertilizer_factory                            0.053
  fuel_refinery                                 0.010
  furniture_factory                             0.068
  glass_factory                                 0.050
  liquor_distillery                             0.065
  lumber_mill                                   0.100
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.052
  luxury_furniture_factory                      0.008
  machine_parts_factory                         0.021
  paper_mill                                    0.011
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.049
  small_arms_factory                            0.036
  steamer_shipyard                              0.053
  steel_factory                                 0.098
  winery                                        0.050
  Industrial modifier: 1.99994 10 0.10003
TIB :
  cement_factory                                0.000
  glass_factory                                 0.000
  liquor_distillery                             0.000
  lumber_mill                                   0.000
  paper_mill                                    0.000
  steel_factory                                 1.000
  winery                                        0.000
  Industrial modifier: 0.11 1 1
MAL :
  aeroplane_factory                             0.003
  ammunition_factory                            0.059
  artillery_factory                             0.003
  automobile_factory                            0.002
  canned_food_factory                           0.037
  cement_factory                                0.022
  clipper_shipyard                              0.016
  dye_factory                                   0.014
  electric_gear_factory                         0.002
  explosives_factory                            0.020
  fabric_factory                                0.056
  fertilizer_factory                            0.051
  fuel_refinery                                 0.004
  furniture_factory                             0.044
  glass_factory                                 0.045
  liquor_distillery                             0.065
  lumber_mill                                   0.088
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.040
  luxury_furniture_factory                      0.039
  machine_parts_factory                         0.013
  paper_mill                                    0.023
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.093
  small_arms_factory                            0.047
  steamer_shipyard                              0.022
  steel_factory                                 0.114
  telephone_factory                             0.005
  winery                                        0.074
  Industrial modifier: 1.77416 8 0.114356
GEO :
  ammunition_factory                            0.102
  artillery_factory                             0.050
  canned_food_factory                           0.035
  cement_factory                                0.025
  clipper_shipyard                              0.022
  electric_gear_factory                         0.008
  explosives_factory                            0.083
  fabric_factory                                0.021
  fertilizer_factory                            0.087
  furniture_factory                             0.045
  glass_factory                                 0.060
  liquor_distillery                             0.031
  lumber_mill                                   0.096
  luxury_clothes_factory                        0.040
  luxury_furniture_factory                      0.017
  machine_parts_factory                         0.037
  paper_mill                                    0.019
  regular_clothes_factory                       0.018
  small_arms_factory                            0.021
  steamer_shipyard                              0.020
  steel_factory                                 0.159
  winery                                        0.007
  Industrial modifier: 1.50584 6 0.158849
 
The Kingdom of Norway, and the United States of Italian America, seeing that the Chinese Republic intends not merely to claim the spoils which rightfully attend victorious wars, but to destroy all sovereignty except their own, hereby proclaim and make known The American Diktat, to wit:

  • China must cease its unlawful demand for the return of Yumen and other provinces taken by Georgia in just wars to punish breach of treaty;
  • must cease making war upon the prostrate Georgian people;
  • and must accept the good offices of the American Powers in mediating a peace to the advantage of both parties.

Should China fail to comply with this request and requirement, it will face war with the American Powers, and with such other nations as are willing to uphold the right.
 
The United States of Italian America confirms the American Diktat. China would be wise to take heed and show grace in victory, lest the Middle Kingdom one day finds itself the victim of such demands as it now tries to enforce on Georgia.
 
King of Men said:
The Kingdom of Norway, and the United States of Italian America, seeing that the Chinese Republic intends not merely to claim the spoils which rightfully attend victorious wars, but to destroy all sovereignty except their own, hereby proclaim and make known The American Diktat, to wit:

  • China must cease its unlawful demand for the return of Yumen and other provinces taken by Georgia in just wars to punish breach of treaty;
  • must cease making war upon the prostrate Georgian people;
  • and must accept the good offices of the American Powers in mediating a peace to the advantage of both parties.

Should China fail to comply with this request and requirement, it will face war with the American Powers, and with such other nations as are willing to uphold the right.
Click to expand...


China dismisses this diktat as children pretending to be adults and as good children should go back to their play pens.

China finds any peace that does not include the unconditional return of its cores as unacceptable, also it should be noted that the Norwegian grasp of history is wildly incorrect as Yumen was leased by China to Georgia to get Georgia to betray its erstwhile allies in the second war which by admission by the Norwegian ambassador was a naked act of aggression with whom not a single ounce of its effort was at all directed towards enforcement of any treaty whatsoever so this diktat rings hollow.

The "punishment" about that previous subverted treaty was already meeted out in the first war of which did not include the seizing of Yumen, that was the second war which was unrelated to the first.

China will cease making war when the Georgians accept our demands or make an acceptable counter offer and partake in diplomacy directly and not just through powerless intermediaries.

This war was just and moral act by the Chinese state to reunite its people nothing less is acceptable.
 
Under normal reasonable circumstances I shouldn't be this dismissive but c'mon their demanding that I don't even deserve my cores in a war won so quickly and so spectacularly that their demands are absurd.

I won and defeated the troops on my side with my own skill under my own power, how DARE you try to take that from me.
 
Nothing to do with what you deserve. "Fools pray for justice; wise men for mercy". It's all about the balance of power in Asia. And before you start screaming that you're not a threat, meh, we have our own estimate of that and are entitled to conduct our diplomacy accordingly, so just don't go there, ok?
 
King of Men said:
Nothing to do with what you deserve. "Fools pray for justice; wise men for mercy". It's all about the balance of power in Asia. And before you start screaming that you're not a threat, meh, we have our own estimate of that and are entitled to conduct our diplomacy accordingly, so just don't go there, ok?
Click to expand...

You said it yourself in PM that you think Georgia losing 150,000,000 pops is MORE balancing then me regaining 30,000,000 I think you view on what constitutes balance is off its rocker.

Next we are at the cusp of Hoi with my all 200 ic, lagginf ar behind France and Indonesia, we don't have long of Ricky left and Indonesia is still more then considerably strong enough t balance me, we never needed 2 of such to balance me, one was always enough, the other just simply benefited from manipulating such.
 
That's not what I said. In any case, I'm not interested in this discussion: Norway will fight to the last allied soldier to prevent China from gaining any more power.

I won and defeated the troops on my side [of Georgia] with my own skill under my own power, how DARE you try to take that from me.
Click to expand...

Well, in fact, we can't. Your victory will always exist, short of Yngling domination of the world and subsequent MiniTruth editing of the history books. (Which is unlikely, actually; Ynglings quite like to present their enemies as powerful and determined, the better to relish their subsequent humiliation.) But the victory is one thing, the peace is quite another. You haven't won that yet.
 
King of Men said:
That's not what I said. In any case, I'm not interested in this discussion: Norway will fight to the last allied soldier to prevent China from gaining any more power.



Well, in fact, we can't. Your victory will always exist, short of Yngling domination of the world and subsequent MiniTruth editing of the history books. (Which is unlikely, actually; Ynglings quite like to present their enemies as powerful and determined, the better to relish their subsequent humiliation.) But the victory is one thing, the peace is quite another. You haven't won that yet.
Click to expand...

And to the last soldier you will. So far I notice a lack of additional signatures.

I find your attempt to deny my irrentialist movement an excersize ad absudo and will fight to the last Norwegian and italian to ensure the unification of my people.
 
King of Men said:
That's not what I said. In any case, I'm not interested in this discussion: Norway will fight to the last allied soldier to prevent China from gaining any more power.
Click to expand...

I like how, in this time line, the Ynglings are more inclined to let strils do the dirty work. :rolleyes:
 
We are honest about state interests, is all. The means should be adjusted to the ends: Chinese expansion is undesirable and we will fight to avoid it, but it is not so undesirable as to require complete mobilisation of the Norwegian population down to 12-year-old girls, as happened in the Twenty Years' War in the other timeline. If the issue were, let us say, "maintain Norwegian independence", then indeed it would be "fight to the last Yngling".
 
Oooh. The Americas united. Two of the world's most three powerful navies under one banner. I doubt the rest of the world combined could break the mighty wooden walls that now surround the New World and the British Isles. France and China facing the naval powers of the world. Georgia lying prostate under the Paris-Beijing Axis, while the free powers of the world seek to free their enslaved brethren.

From a spectator's point-of-view, the only way this could possibly be made any more epic would be if the Indonesians (who are of course the United States of America in the analogy, the Norwegians being English, the French being Italian, the Chinese being German, the Georgians being French, and the Italians being really good at making pizza) broke their long isolation, and joined the fight to defeat the Unholy Alliance.

Here, I even wrote[1] a poem[2] for you, Indonesia. Use it wisely.

Let Freedom’s land rejoice!
Our ancient bonds are riven;
Once more to us the irritating choice
Of Norway or China is given.


1 - May not actually be true.
2- Apologies to Rudyard Kipling. Please don't rise from the grave and destroy me for my impudence.
 
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