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Thread: Demo AAR: HQ Tutorial as Germany

  1. #41
    Fossile en devenir Moderator hildoceras's Avatar

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    Congratulations for this very useful and needed work.
    I have a few questions.


    *****
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilango2
    You cannot create new theater HQ's, you can, however, request the AI to recalculate theatre areas in the production screen. Note that in most cases, this will do nothing.
    what does it means?
    Let us say I the German in Russia and I want three theaters of operations : Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad, what can I do?



    *****What happened to the planes. Why can't you make them independant (Luftwaffe opposed to OKW)?



    *****
    Quote Originally Posted by potski View Post
    I hope you don't mind if I correct two important details. First up:

    This is not necessary. When we are giving a Defensive Objective we are not telling the AI which of our own provinces to defend - it knows that it should defend them. What we are doing is directing the HQ to a particular area of the front.

    Here all we need to do is give the AI ONE province as the Objective and that province should be in France. What we are saying to the Theatre HQ is: please defend our border with France. It will then defend the border whether it advances deep in to France, or if we are forced to retreat and those provinces you have highlighted are now occupied by France. This will do the job just nicely:

    Pretty much any province will do. In fact, it is even possible to give the AI no Objective province when selecting either Prepare or Defensive stance. The AI knows it is at war with France, and not with Holland, and should distribute its forces accordingly.
    can you be more explicit, I do not understand



    ***** I'm wondering why we can't "drag and drop" from the outliner rather than making several "release-link" clicks?
    OK, it's a question that should be directed to the developing staff but optimization should be their motto. It's ok for the Nicaraguaian army but isn't it a bit long with several hundred brigades?

  2. #42
    Fossile en devenir Moderator hildoceras's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by potski View Post
    This is incorrect - the AI HQ will never attach the reserves to any HQ under them for a player controlled country. Only the player is able to change the hierarchy.
    do you mean that these "reserves" are more like independant combat groups?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by hildoceras View Post
    Congratulations for this very useful and needed work.
    I have a few questions.


    *****what does it means?
    Let us say I the German in Russia and I want three theaters of operations : Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad, what can I do?
    You cannot set your own Theatre Areas. But if you want to carry out Barbarossa then you can form three Army Groups and give AI Control to these, each with their own Objective/Stance/Axis of Attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by hildoceras
    *****What happened to the planes. Why can't you make them independant (Luftwaffe opposed to OKW)?
    You can make them independent. Just detach them from the control of the Theatre HQs. You can then allow the Theatre AI to control the ground forces, while you control the planes.

    You can also detach them, then re-attach them lower down the hierarchy. Air units and fleets can be attached to any HQ from Corps upwards. You can give an Army HQ which has AI Control an air wing of CAS, and it will use that CAS to support its own ground units. You could then keep the longer-range TAC bombers under manual control to support any Army you think requires it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hildoceras
    can you be more explicit, I do not understand
    Sorry, if that is not clear enough. Try it yourself in the game, giving different Objectives and you will see how this works.
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  4. #44
    Fossile en devenir Moderator hildoceras's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by potski View Post
    You cannot set your own Theatre Areas. But if you want to carry out Barbarossa then you can form three Army Groups and give AI Control to these, each with their own Objective/Stance/Axis of Attack.
    so, in simple words, as if you talked to a dummy... what actually are theatres of operation? what define them? how do you recognize one when you meet it in the street?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by hildoceras View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by potski View Post
    the AI HQ will never attach the reserves to any HQ under them for a player controlled country. Only the player is able to change the hierarchy.
    do you mean that these "reserves" are more like independant combat groups?
    Yes, the AI Controlled Theatre AI will use these independently, where-ever it thinks they might be required.

    Remember that this means that they will be used in combat without the bonuses that Divisions usually get for being attached to a Corps, Army and Army Group. These are the historical OOBs (Orders of Battle) that existed in 1939. You can change them if you prefer. If you feel that 1. Armee on the western front needs more Divisions then detach strategic reserve units from the Theatre and attach them to one of the Corps attached to 1. Armee.

    For example IX. Armeekorps starts the war with only two Divisions attached. It is allowed a maximum of five, so you could attach three of the Divisions in strategic reserve to this Corps HQ. Those Divisions will then move to join the rest of the Corps.

    Note that there are two types of "reserves" and this is an important point to understand. Chilango2 is referring to the concept of strategic reserves, such as the twelve Divisions which are attached directly to the "OB West" Theatre HQ. There are twelve Divisions in this situation.

    The Theatre HQ is located at Frantfurt am Main. If you hover your mouse over the units there you will see a tooltip showing the units located there:



    You can see from this that alot of the Infantry Brigades are not full strength. If you select one of them, you will see the "reserve" status indicator next to the Brigades. The tooltip for these explains:



    In September 1939 these Divisions had only just been mobilised. It will take them some time to reach full strength and organisation. The AI will try to avoid committing these Divisions to combat in the first weeks of the war.
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    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.” Sun Tzu

    “Where force is necessary, there it must be applied boldly, decisively and completely. But one must know the limitations of force; one must know when to blend force with a maneuver, a blow with an agreement.” Leon Trotsky
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  6. #46
    Lord High Admiral merlin2199's Avatar
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    I was going to wait a bit before getting HoI 3, to let the kinks work themselves out.

    This little gem has convinced me otherwise (too much trouble to get the demo at this point).

    Looks like all I've ever wanted since HoI. This game is a strategist's dream! Makes TOAW look simplistic and yet isn't a micromanagement nightmare. Very exciting.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by hildoceras View Post
    so, in simple words, as if you talked to a dummy... what actually are theatres of operation? what define them? how do you recognize one when you meet it in the street?
    haha - well, first off: fat ladies do not sing in Theatres in HOI3!

    There are two parts to a Theatre in the game: an Area and an HQ.

    First, the Theatre Area. This can be viewed by selecting the HQ button for the mapmode:



    Germany starts with two Theatre Areas coloured blue and red:

    - The blue area covers the western part of Germany, including the border with France that you are at war with.

    - The red area covers the eastern part of Germany; East Prussia; and Slovakia. Slovakia is included because it is your puppet and you can conduct operations there the same as in provinces you control. The red area includes the border with the other country you are at war with - Poland.

    The game allocates the Theatre Areas, you cannot define them yourself.

    These areas are given names according to the names of the (sort of) historical Theatre HQs which have been defined in the game files. The blue area is called "OB West" and the red area "Oberk. der Wehrmacht".

    The OB West Theatre HQ is located in Frankfurt am Main near the French border. The Oberk. der Wehrmacht Theatre HQ is located in Berlin. These are the two highest level HQs that Germany has.

    At the start of the game you will normally find all of the units within a Theatre Area are attached to the Theatre HQ located there, this includes any air and naval units which are based within the area. The HQ therefore has overall command of everything that goes on in this area, and in the countries beyond where we are at war with them, and the seas around it.

    There must always be a Theatre HQ for every Theatre Area. For some countries there are none defined in the game files, so the game will create one for you. For Afghanistan the game might create a Theatre called "Kabul HQ". It will use names of major cities in the area.

    At the simplest level, you can give AI Control to the OB West Theatre HQ and ask it to Defend against France; while you give AI Control to Oberk. der Wehrmacht Theatre HQ and ask it to Attack against Poland with the Objective to capture Warsaw. Each Theatre HQ will try to carry out its orders within its area, and only within its area. OB West will never send some of its units to fight in Poland, even if most of them are doing nothing. You are in overall strategic command, only you can decide whether to move an Army from one Theatre to another.

    As you advance into Poland (you are going to advance aren't you!), then the red Theatre Area advances to include all of the provinces your forces capture. Eventually, if you are successful and force Poland to surrender, then all of the provinces of Poland become German control (unless you have decided to sign the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact) and the red Theatre Area will cover all these provinces.

    Now the game might decide, since you are no longer at war on your eastern front that it no longer requires the red Theatre Area, and it will want to merge the two Theatres into one, so that most of your forces might be sent to fight on the western front against France and its Allies. But the game will not merge the Theatres unless you allow it to do so. To do this go to the Production Screen and select Define Theatres. Nothing may happen if the game decides that it is not a good time to merge the Theatres, you cannot make it.

    On the other hand, if you decide to declare war on Denmark, then you will probably find that it will want to create a new Theatre Area covering northern Germany and including the new front with Denmark. If you let it, then it will probably create a brand new Theatre HQ for you, which might be called "Hamburg HQ". If you place an Army in this Area ready to invade Denmark which is not already attached to any Theatre and click on the "Theatre Forces" button on the Production Screen, then you should find that the AI will attach the Army to the Hamburg HQ for you. You can also do this yourself manually. You can then give AI Control to the Hamburg HQ and give it an Attacking stance with the Objective Copenhagen, and it will use that Army to invade. You might also want to give the new Theatre HQ control of some air units and even a few fleets.

    You decide what forces your Theatre will use. It will advise you what it thinks it needs, and even ask you to build extra units, but it cannot force you to give them. If you decide that the Hamburg HQ really doesn't need some TAC bomber wings, then don't give it to them. Leave the TAC's with OB West to use against France.
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  8. #48
    Mexico City Boy Chilango2's Avatar
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    potski, thanks so much for the clarifications and additions you've given here, I'll be incorporating those corrections into the guide shortly.

    When I was talking about 'hand offs' I was discussing my belief that a HQ could assign a division it had as a free floating reserve to an HQ under it, by adding a division to X unit or so on, but that the reverse could not occur. If I am understanding you correctly, the AI never changes the assignment of any division, ever. It is free to use divisions directly assigned to them to strengthen various points of attack or defense, but the divisions position in the hierarchy will remain unchanged.

    Thanks for pointing out how to set an axis of attack. I knew it *was* possible, and I was *pretty* sure that shift right clicking set it, but I wasn't positive.
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  9. #49
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    potski, thank you for the tutorial. Really informative

    But to further elaborate: let's say i want to leave the air defense of Germany to AI. Basically, i can attach air units to OB West. Or it has already been done so by AI, even. And then, i give OB West an order to defend against France. Doesn't that mean most of the fighters/interceptors are used to keep the French down, basically inviting Brits to come and bomb the undefended provinces?

    Hmmm, or since the game doesn't let me create home air defence theatre, can i just make one level lower HQ, position it somewhere in NW Germany, attach air units to it and then give it orders to defend against GB?
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  10. #50
    No problems, Chilango2. You are indeed understanding me correctly - the AI will not change the assignment of ground units in the player's hierarchy.

    It might re-organise fleets and air units though, but I suspect most players would prefer to keep most of these under their own control anyway. You can still give wide-ranging manual orders to them, without being bogged down in micromanagement if you don't want to. PI really have covered all of the bases here.

    Anything else you need clarification on let me know, but I sense you will have worked most things out for yourself within a few days. Your thread will hopefully become a useful resource for new players.


    Quote Originally Posted by merlin2199
    I was going to wait a bit before getting HoI 3, to let the kinks work themselves out.

    This little gem has convinced me otherwise (too much trouble to get the demo at this point).

    Looks like all I've ever wanted since HoI. This game is a strategist's dream! Makes TOAW look simplistic and yet isn't a micromanagement nightmare. Very exciting.
    I hope you really enjoy the game.
    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.” Sun Tzu

    “Where force is necessary, there it must be applied boldly, decisively and completely. But one must know the limitations of force; one must know when to blend force with a maneuver, a blow with an agreement.” Leon Trotsky
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  11. #51
    Basileus Romaion Nikolai's Avatar
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    Wow. This thread is a gold mine. A multitude of thanks!
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  12. #52
    Mexico City Boy Chilango2's Avatar
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    Okay, finished one more edit to include potski's corrections, and hopefully we have a fully accurate guide now. :P

    For me, I'm planning to start another AAR, this one a 'full' AAR as Germany when I get my hands on the game in <checks countdown clock> a little under seven and a half hours, not that I'm counting or anything.

    That AAR will focus on a historicalish feel and attempt to further explore the new AI system, see how it responds, etc. My intent is to have all major offensives, and most minor ones, be done by automated AI's with my objectives etc. Should be fun.
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  13. #53
    Basileus Romaion Nikolai's Avatar
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    Lucky you. Until I get my study loan, somewhere between tomorrow and early next week, I can't buy the game...
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  14. #54
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    Sweet! I can't wait to download this tomorrow!
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by hjarg View Post
    potski, thank you for the tutorial. Really informative

    But to further elaborate: let's say i want to leave the air defense of Germany to AI. Basically, i can attach air units to OB West. Or it has already been done so by AI, even. And then, i give OB West an order to defend against France. Doesn't that mean most of the fighters/interceptors are used to keep the French down, basically inviting Brits to come and bomb the undefended provinces?

    Hmmm, or since the game doesn't let me create home air defence theatre, can i just make one level lower HQ, position it somewhere in NW Germany, attach air units to it and then give it orders to defend against GB?
    Thanks, hjarg.

    Well, first off, the UK in the 1939 scenario still has level 1 Whitleys as strategic bombers. Their range of 800km will reach Northern Germany, but they can't overfly Belgium and Holland, as they have not yet joined the Allies, so their ability to bomb Germany is limited. They cannot be escorted by fighters, as none have the range necessary, and the UK will probably send them during the day. So they should not be a great problem.

    The Theatre AI is responsible for the whole Theatre Area. Even given a command that will direct the ground units to Defend against France, and which will largely ignore the Belgium/Holland border, the Theatre will:

    - Move some units to garrison naval bases and some VP provinces

    - Defend any part of the Theatre Area which comes under attack. This includes bombing by the UK. The Theatre AI will direct its Interceptors to carry out Air Interception missions across a very wide area, and the air wings located at bases such as Kassel, Bitburg and Frankfurt am Main, will be scambled to attack incoming strategic bombers detected as they approach their targets in northern Germany, as well as French TAC and CAS.

    However, you are correct that it is possible to create your own Corps or Army HQs and attach only air wings or ships to them, and then put that Corps or Army HQ under AI Control. You can create a Corps HQ in Hamburg, call it "1. Fliegerkorps" and attach some air wings of INC to it based in Hannover. You can then give that HQ an order to Defend Hamburg. It will use the INC wings to carry out air interception missions all across northern Germany.
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  16. #56
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    How do we get rid of the reserve icon??? it restrics org. and str... the red bar with ! i calnt mobilize them or anything.

  17. #57
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    Awesome read and certainly explains to stupid, slow me some of the aspects of HoI 3. Now if only more are explained in the coming days and weeks...

    As I understand it, the player cannot create Theaters of Operation, but the computer can? Theater merging cannot occur without player intervention but theater creation can occur without the player allowing it? Confusing...And when a theater is created, is a new HQ governing this area instantly created or must the player do so? Also...how are theaters handled by all the different countries? Those who are land-based in Europe are probably the easiest to determine I'm sure...but the US for instance...or Japan. How are theaters defined in a mostly sea-empire?

    Tons of questions and I cannot wait to get this game next week.

    Oh...is it possible someone could put this excellent AAR in a .pdf format? That'd be appreciated!
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  18. #58
    Field Marshal hjarg's Avatar
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    Thanks again! You're really helping to get the hang of the whole system.

    But now, the following problem: after taking Poland, i tried clicking on that theatre button in the production menu and voila! It worked! I had 3 theatres... OB West in well, west. Wermachtsomethingsomething in Berlin and new one somewhere in Poland. The problem being that OB West and New HQ divided the area between them, leaving poor Wermacht without any territories. OB West moved their area of influence a bit to the east, covering amongst others Kiel and Berlin (and sending some troops to protect these areas too, nice chaps that they are), while New HQ took Poland and Eastern Germany.

    Cool, i thought- that leaves Wermacht free to do whatever i want. So i detatched some units to New HQ and sent the rest of them to Belgian/Dutch borders. After a while, all was ready and i attacked, wiping floor with Belgium and Holland and marching my troops to south. But then i noticed that OB West was sending some troops from down south up north to guard the newly occupied provinces. And doing that in a situation where the French were actually successful in breaking through and had taken 4 provinces. Plus, the large scale attack is confusing enough without units of another theatre marching around :P
    Is this WAD or am i doing something terribly wrong?

    Hmmmm, and one more thing: when i ordered Wermacht to take positions near Belgian/Duch border, they nicely strategically deployed all units there... exept for HQs that were left behing to Poland. Is this again me pressing something wrong?

    Oh, and thanks again
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  19. #59
    Fossile en devenir Moderator hildoceras's Avatar

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    I thank you both enormously
    It enlightens me a lot. I think this topic is the highest step to cross from HoI2 to HoI3.

  20. #60
    Manners Makyth Man Demi Moderator Lord Strange's Avatar
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    Ahhhhh, more elightenment about it all. Now I undrstand how to do a blitzkrieg. Also, you can put the cookie itslef into your sig. Makes it colourful.
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    For the cities which were formerly great have most of them become insignificant; and such as are at present powerful, were weak in the olden time. I shall therefore discourse equally of both, convinced that human happiness never continues long in one stay.
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    "Why are so many rowers atheists? Because anyone who has done a 2K knows that there is no god."

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