Explorations in Strategy - Italy at War

Darth Moose

Lt. General

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Jun 12, 2009

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• Dec 11, 2009

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• #1.101

Sokraates said:

On a more serious note: what's Vichy-France's political situation in HoI3? Is there an NA-pact or any treaty between Germany/the Axis and Vichy? In any case I can imagine that their thrat level must be very low for Italy.

Click to expand...

IIRC there isn't. Vichy's threat to Italy is irrelevant anyway, because Italy's threat to Vichy + it's low neutrality means that Italy can DoW anytime.

That is one problem I see with the current DoW mechanic: it looks at both the target nation's threat to the declarer, and the declaring nation's threat to the target. Once you declare one war, you can essentially declare war on anyone else in the world.

Hence it is easy to go on a conquest binge with Italy in '37 - DoW Yugoslavia (the +20 threat due to core makes it easy) , and voila, you can practically DoW anyone else in the world. Of course, WW2 will probably start in 1937 against Italy, but that is another matter...

 

Krogzar

First Lieutenant

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Jun 5, 2008

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• Dec 11, 2009

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• #1.102

Ehm, what's that gray blur near india? I'm guessing either Germany invaded or it's Pakistan

 

Myth

Strategy Cognoscenti

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• Dec 11, 2009

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• #1.103

Enewald: Well yes, aircraft are my sword, except that a sword went through the Knot faster than my aircraft will.

ColossusCrusher: Not so sure about this, though with the somewhat changed logistics of 1.3 it may not be so bad. Don't know.

EvilFishtank: Maybe...

loki100: Always a plus.

quetzilla: Yes. Damn those logistics!

Maj. von Mauser: Yes, it will be interesting.

Kman211: Hehe. We'll see.

thatguy: It already is, more or less.

Sokraates: I'm not sure. I haven't paid too much attention to Vichy so far.

anweRU: Italy as the big bad rather than Germany. Huh.

Krogzar: I was waiting to see when people would begin to notice that. Yes, that's Germany.

Well, today I am flying across the pond from London Heathrow to Newark Liberty! I'll see you all on the other side.

 

Warspite_TW

Captain

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Aug 4, 2009

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• Dec 11, 2009

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• #1.104

I know I am a noob at this game, but I wonder if I could make a simple suggestion .
Regarding your airforce. I understood that you haven't upgraded your planes and you haven't invested much in reasarching air upgrades and doctrines.
It may be a good idea to send all your airplanes (you are not using them anyway...) as an expeditionary force to Germany. If this succeeds, Germany will upgrade your air force for free (also their doctrines), and it is very unlikely (impossible I say) that they will manage to lose them in fighting Norway.
But, this is not very easy to accomplish, as Germany seems reluctant to accept expeditionary forces if they do not need extra forces. As a tip, before sending the offer for an expeditioanary force, rebase your planes somewhere in Germany, as near to the front as possible(even doing this I only manage to send my interceptors, they stubbornly refuse my tactical bombers and they are still fighting the French in may game as Romania, but on the other hand my planes were just flying coffins).

 

W

womble

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• Dec 11, 2009

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• #1.105

anweRU said:

IIRC there isn't. Vichy's threat to Italy is irrelevant anyway, because Italy's threat to Vichy + it's low neutrality means that Italy can DoW anytime.

That is one problem I see with the current DoW mechanic: it looks at both the target nation's threat to the declarer, and the declaring nation's threat to the target. Once you declare one war, you can essentially declare war on anyone else in the world.

Hence it is easy to go on a conquest binge with Italy in '37 - DoW Yugoslavia (the +20 threat due to core makes it easy) , and voila, you can practically DoW anyone else in the world. Of course, WW2 will probably start in 1937 against Italy, but that is another matter...

Click to expand...

You can start 2 wars before the Brits attempt to slap your little wristies. Given the AI's uselessness at operating in the Med, though, I wonder sometimes whether it might not be worth kicking off WW2 early.

Vichy France would fall in a matter of days if Italy wanted (would her overseas holdings transfer to the conqueror if the Vichy Government went into exile, and which France would the Allies support...?). It's just a pity that the supply issues of Turkey/Syria preclude making that land connection.

 

theokrat

sexy shoeless god of dice

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• Dec 11, 2009

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• #1.106

Germans in India...

May I suggest a port-hopping strategy down west Africa? There is a nice Portugal AAR around that demonstrates how useful a port denying strategy can be.

Also what about Cyprus and Malta? At least the later can hardly be ignored, if not for strategic reasons than for hurting the pride of Italy with the red dot in the hearts of the Italian empire ;-)

 

U

unmerged(151922)

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• Dec 11, 2009

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• #1.107

Allies would still support the old french goverment that got deposed. They were in the buisness of supporting the various french republics (3rd Republic at the time of WW2, 4th when de Gaul started the govt back up). They wouldent support a Dictator that was Vichy.

 

Last edited: Dec 12, 2009

Myth

Strategy Cognoscenti

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• Dec 12, 2009

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• #1.108

Warspite_TW: That's an interesting suggestion, though I do use my air force a bit. We'll see what I do with it.

womble: Yeah the AI doesn't seem like much at the moment. Britain in particular should have been up in arms given my actions in the Med.

theokrat: The islands will fall like overripe fruit, don't worry about that. Port hopping sounds interesting, may have to look into it.

Evans91: Probably not, no. The furor over the Darlan 'deal' was bad enough.

No update tomorrow, as can be guessed. Just got back home and had dinner; it was a nice horrible 13.5 hour journey. I'll play 1941 tomorrow (Saturday) or Sunday and then writing will begin again probably on Monday.

 

Stuyvesant

Field Marshal

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Dec 7, 2002

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• Dec 12, 2009

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• #1.109

There is something very wrong if a straight Heathrow-to-Newark flight takes you 13.5 hours. If, on the other hand, you had to transfer to another flight from Newark, I can certainly understand the 'enhanced' travel time.

Yes, I'm biased: flew through Newark once and they cancelled our connection - had to spend the night and then jostle to get on to plane number two or three the next morning. You could say I do not care much for Newark Liberty...

Anyway - welcome back States-side and enjoy your holiday. The Italo-centric world map is looking very nice - really brings home the extent of Italy's conquests. Looking forward to seeing how you'll add to that in '41.

 

GrenadierSchube

Colonel

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Nov 30, 2009

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• Dec 12, 2009

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• #1.110

like i said in adreich, think that is spelt right, AAR with Germany in 1944, you guys taught me alot. NEVER would have thought Italians would use aircraft carriers to much use, though i never tried for Gibraltar (always had the spanish take that by influencing them to the dark side since we are much cooler than those silly democratic countries) but what cracks me up is all the strategies and conquest you have done so far I also did but with more battleships and those wonderful german naval bombers those nazis are so kind to send me...:rofl:

 

Baltasar

Field Marshal

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Mar 31, 2004

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• Dec 12, 2009

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• #1.111

Hey, there's a British dot in the med. Mussolini forgot Cyprus

How the heck did the Germans manage to land forces in India?

If you conquer Iraq, you'll have the dreaded land link between your African and European posessions, so what will you do next?

 

Myth

Strategy Cognoscenti

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• Dec 12, 2009

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• #1.112

Stuyvesant: Just like war is about more than just warfare, so too is was the journey about more than just the flight. I'm defining my journey here as from when I left my hall of residence in Reading to when I actually arrived at home in Princeton, so that included getting to and from airports, and waiting at the airport.

GrenadierSchube: Hehe, well, technology is fairly unimportant to good strategy. While a lot of people may disagree with this proposition, they're quite wrong. Focusing on a battlewagon fleet, or on a carrier fleet, only affects the particulars of tactics, operations and the lower levels of strategy rather than the strategy itself.

Baltasar: I didn't forget it! Cyprus is merely unimportant and can be taken whenever I feel like looking at it. As for what I'll do next, that's what we'll find out on Monday!

 

GrenadierSchube

Colonel

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• Dec 12, 2009

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• #1.113

interesting i never thought to do the carrier track. though i did go mechanized with naval bombers/ heavy cruisers to take north africa. whats your opinion of onfielding mechanized and other units? (fairly new just looking for strats so i know how to play people and very hard currently trying out hard)

 

Myth

Strategy Cognoscenti

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• Dec 12, 2009

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• #1.114

GrenadierSchube: Thing about a mechanized army focus is that you don't have a great area to play with it in. Your likely targets are all mountainous and/or cut up by large rivers (see: the Balkans, Spain). Your access to the sweeping plains of northern and eastern Europe is difficult, geopolitically, and it presumes that your main enemy will generally be either Germany or the Soviet Union (depending on whether you side with the Allies or the Axis). If you side with the Axis, you get to play in North Africa but your position there will be ever tenuous due to your relative inability to use the leverage of sea power, as the British will be far superior to you. Gibraltar will also be difficult to crack. And so on.

I've played through 1941 and it's certainly an interesting year with all sorts of implications for the years afterward.

 

delra

Master of Orion

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• Dec 13, 2009

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• #1.115

Spain is 90% flat, only coast is mountainous and you have enough alpine brigades to deal with that. Spain is actually as flat as Poland and even easier to roll since all rivers run east->west creating wide corridors for your mobile forces between them, just land somewhere around Barcelona and go west very fast inside those corridors leaving a siege around Madrid and other hard to get locations to wait for infantry to catch up and take it.

Same for the Balkans, you can easily roll through Northern Yugoslavia and Bulgaria into Black Sea coast provinces of Romania and then all the way to Urals. Just stay between Sava (or whatever that weird river is) and Danube. You will probably get stalled between Beograd and Sofia (I always do) but when you break through there, you're all set for Romania. Even Turkey once you punch through the mountains in one spot is doable with mobile forces.

Italy should resign from either Mobile or Armor practical due to lack of leadership to research both. Personally I resign from Mobile more often, using 3x Arm + 2x Sp Art hammers (or Eng to save on artillery practical as well but still get CA) with standard Inf/Art anvil force which is my preferred way of playing wars. But Mech/Mot with loads of Sp Art is a viable alternative to that if you are willing to pass on combined arms bonus and punching power it gives.

 

TheMaleRei

Second Lieutenant

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• Dec 13, 2009

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• #1.116

I've been lurking for a while and after all has been said and done, I have but one question (well not really but this will do for now):

How in the name of Cthulu's jock strap did the Germans get into British India / Pakistan?!


Obviously you have played Italy all this while, but at the very least I'd like to hear some theories.

Did the RN get crushed by the U-boat fleet or...?

 

Nikolai II

A bunny with a hat

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• Dec 13, 2009

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• #1.117

TheMaleRei said:

Did the RN get crushed by the U-boat fleet or...?

Click to expand...

Haven't you heard? Half of it is stuck in the Med, and the other half is out of fuel due to having been padded with one gazillion transports when it wanted to build convoys to bring fuel oil back to good old England.

 

Darth Moose

Lt. General

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Jun 12, 2009

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• Dec 13, 2009

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• #1.118

TheMaleRei said:

How in the name of Cthulu's jock strap did the Germans get into British India / Pakistan?!

Click to expand...

Last I checked, the AI did not suffer from something called "naval range" that the human side does. A left over from EU3 perhaps...

 

W

womble

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• Dec 13, 2009

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• #1.119

anweRU said:

Last I checked, the AI did not suffer from something called "naval range" that the human side does. A left over from EU3 perhaps...

Click to expand...

I do believe you are correct: I've seen Japan deliver an Expeditionary force to the Germans. At Murmansk. With an unescorted flotilla of 4 Transports. Tootling up the English Channel and back. So it also seems like they do not suffer the privations of naval intercept either.

 

Myth

Strategy Cognoscenti

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• Dec 13, 2009

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• #1.120

delra: Details details.

TheMaleRei: As Nikolai II says, it's 'cause a damn considerable portion of the RN is slightly stuck at Tel Aviv.

Nikolai II: Yep.

anweRU: Heh, not simply a leftover from EU3 but probably all the way from HoI1 if not earlier.

womble: News of the hour: AI naval forces invincible! But scared of coming out to fight, thankfully!

The next chapter will start tomorrow!