I enjoy very much this AAR. I'm learning a lot. I only wish game bugs will not create too many problems....
Congrats !!!
Congrats !!!
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Jorath13: Dublish has it right, Granada is a no-go area.
dublish: Spot on.
Maj. von Mauser: Only if he declares war on me. I can't afford another high profile war!
Jorath13: Nonsense, nonsense, mistakes are unavoidable! They're nothing to be ashamed about, as long as you learn from them. Besides, AAR proliferation is good.
Gladiator: Thanks, I enjoy writing it too!
dublish: Spot on.
Maj. von Mauser: Only if he declares war on me. I can't afford another high profile war!
Jorath13: Nonsense, nonsense, mistakes are unavoidable! They're nothing to be ashamed about, as long as you learn from them. Besides, AAR proliferation is good.
Gladiator: Thanks, I enjoy writing it too!
I have noticed that what seems to matter more than the make up of a fleet is the size of the fleet. What I mean is that 6 ships that are more advanced that your enemy does ok, but 18 will sink damn near all of it. If your enemy has like 6 ships themselves. Quantity seems to me better than quality. Of course I could be doing it wrong:wacko:
What IC and resource rich provinces have you captured and which ones are still in reach?
Your western beachhead got isolated and is without an harbour?
How do they get supplies?
How do they get supplies?
Too bad about Alcalá la Real, other than this event the intervention seems to be a success.
How far north can Italian forces go? Is a drive up the coast to the Pyrenees too much to hope for?
Perhaps it would be useful to attach some cavalry divisions to the intervention force, or even stage a second landing further up the coast. However, maybe the success of the operation is causing me to over-estimate the possibilities and strategic goals of Italy in Spain.
btw, are you allied with Nat. Spain? Transit agreement? How can they move through your territory?
How far north can Italian forces go? Is a drive up the coast to the Pyrenees too much to hope for?
Perhaps it would be useful to attach some cavalry divisions to the intervention force, or even stage a second landing further up the coast. However, maybe the success of the operation is causing me to over-estimate the possibilities and strategic goals of Italy in Spain.
btw, are you allied with Nat. Spain? Transit agreement? How can they move through your territory?
Myth,
Being new to both this game and the strategy genre, I've found your AAR an incredible motivator and educator. Great stuff!
Being new to both this game and the strategy genre, I've found your AAR an incredible motivator and educator. Great stuff!
AreoHotah: That does make sense, though. More guns tends to be more important than powerful guns.
Pier: I have no idea.
Enewald: I like to think they're living off the land.
Cacahuananche: Yeah, reaching the Pyrenees is definitely too much to hope for. As for how far I'll actually get, we'll see. I hadn't thought of cavalry divisions for Pintor's force, but maybe it's worth a thought. As for my relations with the Nationalists, there's no alliance, I have transit rights through their territory though they don't through mine. Dunno how they can move through my territory.
kaegogi: Glad I can help!
I'm writing the update for tomorrow morning right now, lads!
Pier: I have no idea.
Enewald: I like to think they're living off the land.
Cacahuananche: Yeah, reaching the Pyrenees is definitely too much to hope for. As for how far I'll actually get, we'll see.
I hadn't thought of cavalry divisions for Pintor's force, but maybe it's worth a thought. As for my relations with the Nationalists, there's no alliance, I have transit rights through their territory though they don't through mine. Dunno how they can move through my territory. kaegogi: Glad I can help!
I'm writing the update for tomorrow morning right now, lads!
The Year of Preparation
Part 4: Operation Scipio III, February 12 – February 20, 1938
The eight days of middle February shaped how the rest of the war thereafter was fought, and what it was fought for. During these days, operations influenced the situation to such an extent that old, improvised and territory-specific war aims for this phase had to be thrown out as they were not realizable any more. By the 20th, the end of the war was clearly in sight, and with it the vindication of Mussolini’s maritime strategy.
The 12th saw more changes to the operational plan, as Pintor continued to expand the operational area. Gambara’s new overall objective was simply to push as far northward as possible, and certainly beyond Valencia. As already related, Caracciolo di Feroleto had as his objective Cagunto, a seaside town just north of Valencia. The hope was that the Nationalists would not move and thus be isolated from the rest of Spain. It was to be a symbol of Mussolini’s pique against Franco, given Nationalist-induced failure of linking the beachheads. Nicolosi’s division was given the objective of Teruel, nearly directly north of Valencia but some distance away. Frattini’s objective was Albarracin, a town whose importance lay with the fact that its capture by the Italians would split the remaining Republican territory in twain. Due to Messe’s long delay at Hellin, his division essentially dropped off the face of the operational plan. His division was simply too far behind the front to be directly relevant to it even though it was on this day that he finally won at Hellin, as previously noted.
Continuously expanding operations in eastern Spain.
As all this was occurring, Roatta’s corps was standing still in the western beachhead. Roatta was coordinating with Quilicci to evacuate his troops from there and redeploy them to Cartagena. The lack of supply was not yet hitting his corps too hard as they were able to disperse and live off the land, paying for food in the territories they had conquered and stabilized from the chaos of civil war. Everyone along the chain of command had forgotten Mussolini’s diplomacy of the previous December and that Italy held transit rights through Nationalist territory. Due to this oversight, Roatta’s corps had already sat for over two weeks and was to sit for more time to come. They were out of the war, and out on the beaches of southern Spain.
Roatta’s corps, neglected and isolated.
By the 16th a solid front had formed in the north along the towns of Tarazona de la Mancha, Casas Ibáñez and Requena. Caraccioli di Feroleto had engaged a Republican division of 6,000 mountain troops at Segerbe. Nicolosi was advancing on undefended Sinarcas, from where he would make his final push toward Teruel. Frattini, holding the northern flank, was advancing north from Tarazona de la Mancha toward Cuenca and thence onward to Albarracin. The Nationalists were also sweeping northward, albeit with only one brigade, as far as Italian intelligence could infer. To the north they had already reached the Mediterranean Sea at the mouth of the Ebro, and were pushing southward. Conquerable territory was quickly beginning to vanish.
Pintor and Gambara were throwing their divisions as far northward as they could.
By the 19th, Nicolosi had run into resistance in front of Teruel, as a headquarters unit began fighting back. This was a different headquarters from the one the Italians ran into earlier in the campaign. The battle was a short affair: not twenty-four hours later the corps headquarters was forced to withdraw. It had suffered nearly 140 casualties, as opposed to two Italians. To the south, at Segerbe, however, Caracciolo di Feroleto had run into some difficulties as the defense by the Spanish mountaineers proved difficult to crack. In fact, the Italians were actually losing ground to the Spanish, albeit slowly. Unfortunately for Pintor’s plans and Mussolini’s pique, the Nationalists were taking advantage of this period of grace to break out of Valencia to the north. It was already beginning to look like Valencia would escape the fate of isolation. Frattini was advancing toward Albarracin.
The battle of Teruel and surrounding areas.
By the evening of the 20th, Frattini had reached Albarracin. The Republicans were, however, using that as the highway connecting their western armies to their eastern armies. Albarracin represented the link up between Italian and Nationalist forces in the north. The Spanish attacked in relative force, deploying three brigades against Frattini’s two and pushed westward. By the end of the day the situation was not dangerous, but additional Republican forces in the area could easily throw the defense off balance. Furthermore, Cuenca was the only Italian-occupied road to Albarracin, and it was undefended. Frattini was at the end of an unprotected salient. Fortunately, Nicolosi had put the Republicans at Teruel to flight and was on the march.
The battle of Albarracin.
This period of eight days from the 12th to the 20th saw the death knell of the Republican cause as their armies were split in two by the Italian push northward. With this division of territory, the remainder of the war would degenerate into nothing more than a hurried land grab as the Nationalists and Italians attempted to take all the territory they could. The first Italian littoral operation was soon to come to an end, having achieved most of what it had set out to do, despite being quite undisciplined in its aims.
Part 4: Operation Scipio III, February 12 – February 20, 1938
The eight days of middle February shaped how the rest of the war thereafter was fought, and what it was fought for. During these days, operations influenced the situation to such an extent that old, improvised and territory-specific war aims for this phase had to be thrown out as they were not realizable any more. By the 20th, the end of the war was clearly in sight, and with it the vindication of Mussolini’s maritime strategy.
The 12th saw more changes to the operational plan, as Pintor continued to expand the operational area. Gambara’s new overall objective was simply to push as far northward as possible, and certainly beyond Valencia. As already related, Caracciolo di Feroleto had as his objective Cagunto, a seaside town just north of Valencia. The hope was that the Nationalists would not move and thus be isolated from the rest of Spain. It was to be a symbol of Mussolini’s pique against Franco, given Nationalist-induced failure of linking the beachheads. Nicolosi’s division was given the objective of Teruel, nearly directly north of Valencia but some distance away. Frattini’s objective was Albarracin, a town whose importance lay with the fact that its capture by the Italians would split the remaining Republican territory in twain. Due to Messe’s long delay at Hellin, his division essentially dropped off the face of the operational plan. His division was simply too far behind the front to be directly relevant to it even though it was on this day that he finally won at Hellin, as previously noted.
Continuously expanding operations in eastern Spain.
As all this was occurring, Roatta’s corps was standing still in the western beachhead. Roatta was coordinating with Quilicci to evacuate his troops from there and redeploy them to Cartagena. The lack of supply was not yet hitting his corps too hard as they were able to disperse and live off the land, paying for food in the territories they had conquered and stabilized from the chaos of civil war. Everyone along the chain of command had forgotten Mussolini’s diplomacy of the previous December and that Italy held transit rights through Nationalist territory. Due to this oversight, Roatta’s corps had already sat for over two weeks and was to sit for more time to come. They were out of the war, and out on the beaches of southern Spain.
Roatta’s corps, neglected and isolated.
By the 16th a solid front had formed in the north along the towns of Tarazona de la Mancha, Casas Ibáñez and Requena. Caraccioli di Feroleto had engaged a Republican division of 6,000 mountain troops at Segerbe. Nicolosi was advancing on undefended Sinarcas, from where he would make his final push toward Teruel. Frattini, holding the northern flank, was advancing north from Tarazona de la Mancha toward Cuenca and thence onward to Albarracin. The Nationalists were also sweeping northward, albeit with only one brigade, as far as Italian intelligence could infer. To the north they had already reached the Mediterranean Sea at the mouth of the Ebro, and were pushing southward. Conquerable territory was quickly beginning to vanish.
Pintor and Gambara were throwing their divisions as far northward as they could.
By the 19th, Nicolosi had run into resistance in front of Teruel, as a headquarters unit began fighting back. This was a different headquarters from the one the Italians ran into earlier in the campaign. The battle was a short affair: not twenty-four hours later the corps headquarters was forced to withdraw. It had suffered nearly 140 casualties, as opposed to two Italians. To the south, at Segerbe, however, Caracciolo di Feroleto had run into some difficulties as the defense by the Spanish mountaineers proved difficult to crack. In fact, the Italians were actually losing ground to the Spanish, albeit slowly. Unfortunately for Pintor’s plans and Mussolini’s pique, the Nationalists were taking advantage of this period of grace to break out of Valencia to the north. It was already beginning to look like Valencia would escape the fate of isolation. Frattini was advancing toward Albarracin.
The battle of Teruel and surrounding areas.
By the evening of the 20th, Frattini had reached Albarracin. The Republicans were, however, using that as the highway connecting their western armies to their eastern armies. Albarracin represented the link up between Italian and Nationalist forces in the north. The Spanish attacked in relative force, deploying three brigades against Frattini’s two and pushed westward. By the end of the day the situation was not dangerous, but additional Republican forces in the area could easily throw the defense off balance. Furthermore, Cuenca was the only Italian-occupied road to Albarracin, and it was undefended. Frattini was at the end of an unprotected salient. Fortunately, Nicolosi had put the Republicans at Teruel to flight and was on the march.
The battle of Albarracin.
This period of eight days from the 12th to the 20th saw the death knell of the Republican cause as their armies were split in two by the Italian push northward. With this division of territory, the remainder of the war would degenerate into nothing more than a hurried land grab as the Nationalists and Italians attempted to take all the territory they could. The first Italian littoral operation was soon to come to an end, having achieved most of what it had set out to do, despite being quite undisciplined in its aims.
Bah, land quickly behind the republican lines!
Get Barcelona!
I shall await eagerly to see someone actually being annexed in HoI3... maybe some silly event gives all Italian held land to the nationalists?
Get Barcelona!
I shall await eagerly to see someone actually being annexed in HoI3... maybe some silly event gives all Italian held land to the nationalists?
A rather messy campaign.
But I want to know, what is the point of conquering this land? Unless you plan to conquere the rest of Spain it dosen't do you hardly any good. You've failed to get more then one provence bordering Gibraltar, that was all there really was to fight for. A few Ports and Airbases? Your ships have enough range, and they will still be trapped behind Gibraltar, and when that is captured it has it's own Ports and Airbases.
IMO all you are getting is a need to build more convoys.
But I want to know, what is the point of conquering this land? Unless you plan to conquere the rest of Spain it dosen't do you hardly any good. You've failed to get more then one provence bordering Gibraltar, that was all there really was to fight for. A few Ports and Airbases? Your ships have enough range, and they will still be trapped behind Gibraltar, and when that is captured it has it's own Ports and Airbases.
IMO all you are getting is a need to build more convoys.
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I have to agree that the Italian conquests in Spain seem to have limited value except possibly as a springboard for future operations. I'll have to wait and see what economic gains you make from it and what occupation policy you'll be using.
I see lands near Gibiltair are isolated, so troops there would be unsupplied and unable to attack. Do you plan to build a port?
Enewald: You saw Abyssinia annexed! Also, I never thought of going behind Nationalist (and Republican) lines like that. Ah well.
Maj. von Mauser: I'm fighting mostly for the land combat experience it gives me. The territory itself has some worth, but not much (1.1 energy, 0.02 leadership, .75 manpower). Gibraltar's ports and airbases are actually all minuscule, presumably as a balancing issue so that the AI doesn't stack a million units there.
VILenin: Indeed, patience is a virtue.
Gladiator: Of course.
Also, I never thought of going behind Nationalist (and Republican) lines like that. Ah well. Maj. von Mauser: I'm fighting mostly for the land combat experience it gives me. The territory itself has some worth, but not much (1.1 energy, 0.02 leadership, .75 manpower). Gibraltar's ports and airbases are actually all minuscule, presumably as a balancing issue so that the AI doesn't stack a million units there.
VILenin: Indeed, patience is a virtue.
Gladiator: Of course.
well you got what you want, you have a way to attack the rock.
Can you give an estimation of the forces there, the terrain and fortifications - and how much troops you can gather there given the lack of a port.
Also would you consider it cheating to swap the missing link in your lines against some spanish provinces in the north? I for one would call that a fair deal
Can you give an estimation of the forces there, the terrain and fortifications - and how much troops you can gather there given the lack of a port.
Also would you consider it cheating to swap the missing link in your lines against some spanish provinces in the north? I for one would call that a fair deal
AI not being clever enough?
Anyway, the generals probably feared being ambushed, given that Mussolini/they weren't handing over control to the nationalists asap, causing friction with Franco
theokrat: Gibraltar is urban and looks like it has only one garrison division, though I don't know how strong it is. Also don't know about the fortifications, haven't checked yet. I can't gather any troops there without a port. Well, I can but they won't be able to attack for lack of supply. And yeah, I'd consider that cheating, in this case. I'm going with a play with what you get attitude for this game. Plus, Franco probably hates me, he wouldn't do anything to make my life easier.
Nikolai II: Actually, I'm in complete control of this. I was just focused so much on exploiting the situation that I forgot about the transit rights.
I'll try to have an update for tonight! I say try because I think I'll be doing some asphalt smashing later on and that's tiring business.
Nikolai II: Actually, I'm in complete control of this. I was just focused so much on exploiting the situation that I forgot about the transit rights.
I'll try to have an update for tonight! I say try because I think I'll be doing some asphalt smashing later on and that's tiring business.
Cavalary in you're rear sir!
The AI is quick to turn an advantage. In two games as Poland I found it did very well against some fairly determined defense. The fog of war is also fairly good. The Italians could be in some trouble here.
The AI is quick to turn an advantage. In two games as Poland I found it did very well against some fairly determined defense. The fog of war is also fairly good. The Italians could be in some trouble here.
Well, I've been quietly watching your AAR for a while now, and it's been great so far. Keep up the good work.
As everyone else seems to be stating, you're in quite the pickle as far as the land based Gibraltar attack goes. You have the land connection, but the supply situation makes it difficult. I hope the experience you got out of the whole operation was worth it, at any rate.
As everyone else seems to be stating, you're in quite the pickle as far as the land based Gibraltar attack goes. You have the land connection, but the supply situation makes it difficult. I hope the experience you got out of the whole operation was worth it, at any rate.
Valentinan: Perhaps, perhaps not. We'll see in a moment!
Kman211: The experience certainly is fantastic. I believe I got a good four or five land combat experience out of this campaign by its end. Not bad, and I can use all the experience I can get. Not to mention leader experience too. As for the supplies problem, I can fix that with some construction.
Update coming up!
Kman211: The experience certainly is fantastic. I believe I got a good four or five land combat experience out of this campaign by its end. Not bad, and I can use all the experience I can get. Not to mention leader experience too. As for the supplies problem, I can fix that with some construction.
Update coming up!