I don't think there are enough troops to secure the victory in time, or to hold the place if the victory was gained. But Myth may pull off a surprise.
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Staff vs Field Officers
I know from prior experience that Myth goes with the gut on officer assignment, and so long as that works then do it.
After many hours of play-testing I've come to dividing generals into two groups, namely staff and field officers. A staff officer is one with no bonuses of any kind, and they are best posted at army, group, front, and/or theater levels.
The task of building a good core of staff officers is different for every country. Italy has a good number of staff officers, but they rarely see service on the front. It's simply a case of getting them into the fight at the division level. Once they've achived experience level three or above they can be promoted to staff work. In the mean time, Italy should utilize its many old guard as position holders until more experienced staff become available.
Field officers are those with additional skills (offensive, defensive, etc.), and they are always most effective at the division or corps levels. Even so, once a field officer reaches experience level of six or seven it seems fitting to promote them to senior staff (sob).
I hope the above makes sense.
I know from prior experience that Myth goes with the gut on officer assignment, and so long as that works then do it.
After many hours of play-testing I've come to dividing generals into two groups, namely staff and field officers. A staff officer is one with no bonuses of any kind, and they are best posted at army, group, front, and/or theater levels.
The task of building a good core of staff officers is different for every country. Italy has a good number of staff officers, but they rarely see service on the front. It's simply a case of getting them into the fight at the division level. Once they've achived experience level three or above they can be promoted to staff work. In the mean time, Italy should utilize its many old guard as position holders until more experienced staff become available.
Field officers are those with additional skills (offensive, defensive, etc.), and they are always most effective at the division or corps levels. Even so, once a field officer reaches experience level of six or seven it seems fitting to promote them to senior staff (sob).
I hope the above makes sense.
That is interesting ... I've chosen not to promote anyone with no trait at all (a few exceptions
) and the more traits the higher they go after a bit of seasoning. In my German game I had so many Panzer leaders that they also needed an additional trait to get promoted!
It is interesting to watch Myth at work. I must admit, I would love to see him play against blu emu. That would be a game of mythic proportions.
Enewald: Any stranger than the rest of this game?
Baltasar: Well, Germany may or may not be doing useful things. Hungary is neutral.
walnutr113: The RN is still blockaded in Tel Aviv, I've halted in Africa because since the 1.4 patching the South Africans have sent half their army northward, which amounts to more than ten divisions, or about double my entire Africa force.
Stuyvesant: Indeed, the big question will only be answered when it's answered and not a moment before. And we don't know when it will be answered. Or at least, you guys don't know.
Zanziabar: Ukraine has oil? I thought that was the Caucasus.
Cpt Crash: Italy doesn't have much choice, and the best Italian leaders are still major generals. I haven't been thinking of careers at all this game, so even Messe (skill 4, panzer leader and defensive doctrine) has remained a major general commanding his one division in Pintor's army.
Maj. von Mauser: I never really understood it. It's more or less caused by wanting to maximize your experience gain every battle, which is a very hardcore gamer way of doing things. But that's boring.
li2co3: Interesting ideas. We'll see how things turn out.
Jemisi: In time? In time for what?
Valentinan: I go with the gut on a lot of things.
Surt: Yeah well, that's Germany. They have the best leaderpool in the game.
Forster: I see what you did there.
Baltasar: Well, Germany may or may not be doing useful things. Hungary is neutral.
walnutr113: The RN is still blockaded in Tel Aviv, I've halted in Africa because since the 1.4 patching the South Africans have sent half their army northward, which amounts to more than ten divisions, or about double my entire Africa force.
Stuyvesant: Indeed, the big question will only be answered when it's answered and not a moment before. And we don't know when it will be answered. Or at least, you guys don't know.
Zanziabar: Ukraine has oil? I thought that was the Caucasus.
Cpt Crash: Italy doesn't have much choice, and the best Italian leaders are still major generals. I haven't been thinking of careers at all this game, so even Messe (skill 4, panzer leader and defensive doctrine) has remained a major general commanding his one division in Pintor's army.
Maj. von Mauser: I never really understood it. It's more or less caused by wanting to maximize your experience gain every battle, which is a very hardcore gamer way of doing things. But that's boring.
li2co3: Interesting ideas. We'll see how things turn out.
Jemisi: In time? In time for what?
Valentinan: I go with the gut on a lot of things.
Surt: Yeah well, that's Germany. They have the best leaderpool in the game.
Forster: I see what you did there.
I remember, my first time playing, I played as Japan. After pacifying the Chinese states and randomly annexing/puppetting them, I decided it was time to take on Big Red before I took on Little Red (The Brits in India).
My immediate attack out of Manchuria cut off a large portion Russia FET forces in a large pocket focused around Vladistock. There, I was able to crush most Russian forces in the east. However, but declaring war first, I was prioritized by the Comintern pact, so Russia shifted divisions eastward to fight me. I also decided to bring my German/Hungarian/Romanian friends in to join me in the war, so Germany actually ended up fighting a two front war against France and Russia :rofl:.
Anyhow, after catching and destroying a large number of attacking Russian divisions in Mongolia, I drove westward. There, the first thing that was impressed on me is the sheer size of Russia. And the other thing that was impressed on me, was the huge supply problems inherent to attacking Russia from the east. It was a hard effort, hampered by supply problems.
Anyhow, my push from the East took major divisions away from the West. So, the Hungarians, Germans, but not the Romanians drove hard from the west, pushing toward Moskova quickly. But, then things stalled. The western front stalemated. But, on the Eastern end, the Russians were losing. I would gobble up division after division in pockets, forcing the Russians to devote their dwindling IC to me.
Eventually, this loosened up things on the western front, but the Germans were not the ones to make the organized push. It was the Hungarians. They ended up catching entrenched Russian forces who had pushed deep into Romania in an enormous pocket, and crushed an entire army group, I'm guessing maybe 250k soldiers, in one go.
After that, it was smooth sailing. The Hungarians ended up waltzing into Moscow, and then annexed Russia. So, this is what the map looked like at the end of it.
So be glad that the Hungarians aren't in the axis right now, or you could end up with Hungarian Russia. :rofl:
My immediate attack out of Manchuria cut off a large portion Russia FET forces in a large pocket focused around Vladistock. There, I was able to crush most Russian forces in the east. However, but declaring war first, I was prioritized by the Comintern pact, so Russia shifted divisions eastward to fight me. I also decided to bring my German/Hungarian/Romanian friends in to join me in the war, so Germany actually ended up fighting a two front war against France and Russia :rofl:.
Anyhow, after catching and destroying a large number of attacking Russian divisions in Mongolia, I drove westward. There, the first thing that was impressed on me is the sheer size of Russia. And the other thing that was impressed on me, was the huge supply problems inherent to attacking Russia from the east. It was a hard effort, hampered by supply problems.
Anyhow, my push from the East took major divisions away from the West. So, the Hungarians, Germans, but not the Romanians drove hard from the west, pushing toward Moskova quickly. But, then things stalled. The western front stalemated. But, on the Eastern end, the Russians were losing. I would gobble up division after division in pockets, forcing the Russians to devote their dwindling IC to me.
Eventually, this loosened up things on the western front, but the Germans were not the ones to make the organized push. It was the Hungarians. They ended up catching entrenched Russian forces who had pushed deep into Romania in an enormous pocket, and crushed an entire army group, I'm guessing maybe 250k soldiers, in one go.
After that, it was smooth sailing. The Hungarians ended up waltzing into Moscow, and then annexed Russia. So, this is what the map looked like at the end of it.
So be glad that the Hungarians aren't in the axis right now, or you could end up with Hungarian Russia. :rofl:
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O ye of little faith. It's still only February. I'll be surprised if the RE aren't in Moscow by June (at the latest, and only that slow because they're mostly leg infantry), and the Soviets will capitulate not long after, as the expanding Italian presence swallows up city after city. There isn't very much past Stalingrad, and the NU of the Rodina will have been eroded by constant, widespread fighting on her soil for months.
You're probably right, there. The Western Powers will still seek the downfall of the Reich, and however much he might wish otherwise, he cannot cut those ties, even if he 'saves the world from Communism'.
I bet it was the Germans exp forces handed to the Hungarians. The AI has a nasty habbit of doing just this. Problem is that most of the time the Axis minor who gets the "honour" of receiving most of the Wermacht has no means of suplling such an army.
Surt writes:
" . . . In my German game I had so many Panzer leaders that they also needed an additional trait to get promoted!"
Except, perhaps for logistics, HQ commanders can't use the added bonus (e.g. the panzer trait {combined arms} is virtually useless to an HQ).
Experience, as opposed to traits, is quite valuable at higher command levels. Many great German commanders (Rommel, Guderian, et al.) are hard-wired to advance at a faster pace, and at a certain point (experience level 6 or 7), it's a waste to keep them on the front lines. An experience level 7 commander, for example, would greatly help reduce supply congestion at Group HQ.
The senior old Guard commanders have their uses and there's no real need to demote them, the exception being the French army that has so many they become a liability. In this case, if they have good traits, the old guard will always find a home at corps level.
.
.
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" . . . In my German game I had so many Panzer leaders that they also needed an additional trait to get promoted!"
Except, perhaps for logistics, HQ commanders can't use the added bonus (e.g. the panzer trait {combined arms} is virtually useless to an HQ).
Experience, as opposed to traits, is quite valuable at higher command levels. Many great German commanders (Rommel, Guderian, et al.) are hard-wired to advance at a faster pace, and at a certain point (experience level 6 or 7), it's a waste to keep them on the front lines. An experience level 7 commander, for example, would greatly help reduce supply congestion at Group HQ.
The senior old Guard commanders have their uses and there's no real need to demote them, the exception being the French army that has so many they become a liability. In this case, if they have good traits, the old guard will always find a home at corps level.
.
.
.
I once played Germany, and gave a Panzerkorps (6 div) to a General von Amsberg (Skill 1, Old Guard, Panzer Leader). By the time Barbarossa was over he was up to Skill 3, and had gained the traits Mountainer and Ranger.
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Axe27: Yeah, the Hungarians actually have a decent army built up by now, given that they've had nine years to do it. If I wanted to crush them, I'd need to use all of my forces to do so.
womble: I like you, you have faith. You'll be my high priest.
Warspite_TW: It's a very nasty habit, yes.
SpeedyDeletion: They don't scare me!
Maj. von Mauser: Sounds like a basketball team.
Valentinan: Yeah, the French are pretty striken with old guards.
Maj. von Mauser: But that's HoI2, not HoI3.
Axe27: To be honest, I've actually had more weird stuff happen in the latest HoI2DD patches than in HoI3 so far, broadly speaking. I even had a Japanese Helsinki at one point in a previous HoI2 AAR (old fans should recognize this).
Update tonight! And on Monday or Tuesday I'll be making an important announcement! Though it might not be what you expect.
womble: I like you, you have faith. You'll be my high priest.
Warspite_TW: It's a very nasty habit, yes.
SpeedyDeletion: They don't scare me!
Maj. von Mauser: Sounds like a basketball team.
Valentinan: Yeah, the French are pretty striken with old guards.
Maj. von Mauser: But that's HoI2, not HoI3.
Axe27: To be honest, I've actually had more weird stuff happen in the latest HoI2DD patches than in HoI3 so far, broadly speaking. I even had a Japanese Helsinki at one point in a previous HoI2 AAR (old fans should recognize this).
Update tonight! And on Monday or Tuesday I'll be making an important announcement! Though it might not be what you expect.
Good to see Italy moving, and rolling over the Soviets. Looks like you've got half of the Crimea to Murmansk pocket forming.
Must get to Moscow before General Winter causes the game to freeze.
Announcement?
Upgrades to flying armoured taxis?
Must get to Moscow before General Winter causes the game to freeze.
Announcement?
Upgrades to flying armoured taxis?
how dare you keep us in suspense
is it possible the great and powerful Myth is moving the victoria two to lead the great nation of Sweden?
is it possible the great and powerful Myth is moving the victoria two to lead the great nation of Sweden?
FrodoB: General Winter? You realize it's still February. And damn, you've seen right through me! o
Moolle: Tsaritsyn is one of my objectives, yes. *nod*
GrenadierSchube: Do I have the Vicky 2 icon?
Update coming up!
And damn, you've seen right through me! oMoolle: Tsaritsyn is one of my objectives, yes. *nod*
GrenadierSchube: Do I have the Vicky 2 icon?
Update coming up!
The Year of Ruin
Part 5: The Great Offensive V, February 15 – March 1, 1945
Nothing ever prepares old campaigners for the end of the operation. One reason for this is that it is notoriously hard to actually beat any enemy, for the will is always more resilient than the flesh so that even if armies are shattered, nations rarely are. Many other factors of course also play a role in making the end of any operation a surprise of sorts. Of course, one of the greater factors in a theater such as the Soviet Union is geography. The blank expanses of the Soviet Union give a better impression of infinite than infinite itself ever could, and give all invaders the impression that the ultimate objective will never be reached, and victory always out of grasp. There is always the next isolated village to attack, the next river to cross, the next division to break. In such an environment, the end never gets any closer.
Bastico’s and Baistrocchi’s armies were by mid-February moving to eradicate the problem of active Soviet formations in eastern Ukraine once and for all, each contributing one corps to the exercise for a total of nine divisions, besides numerous German divisions which could not prevent the issue in the first place. They were not moving toward the great objective of Moscow, but they were supporting the thrust by removing a distracting threat. The five divisions Bastico dedicated to the task swept southward from Kharkov, racing through the empty Soviet rear toward the Black Sea. Simultaneously, the four divisions that Baistrocchi contributed to the operation, Visconti Prasca’s corps, moved northward from Rostov-na-Don to meet Bastico’s formations. All the Soviet forces in eastern Ukraine were on the frontline facing the Germans and comprised three marine divisions, a motorized division and an armored division, as well as a headquarters. By the 21st, the trap was completed. The Soviet formations were isolated and Bastico’s corps was swinging in from the rear to crush them.
The eradication of the Soviet threat in eastern Ukraine.
Much to the West, the Soviet salient in southeastern Poland was buzzing like a provoked beehive. Formations were rushing by the score eastward, given the unprecedented disaster that had struck the Soviets. With the exception of the isolated Soviet divisions trapped against the Black Sea, there were virtually no Soviet forces between the Dnepr and the Caucasus. The pressure of the Soviet torrent eastward was so great that the Germans forces on the southern front of their Belarusian shelf were being pushed north- and westward. The Italians, meanwhile, suddenly found their advance in this area, if not halted, then at least much slower and more bloody. Guzzoni was still operating in the bulk of the salient itself, while Pintor was trying to interfere with their eastward redeployments. Due to the shaping of the front, Graziani, rather than being back-to-back with Pintor, was now next to him and was similarly active trying to make their eastward journeys difficult.
The Pripet Marsh gap.
Between victory in the east and difficulty in the west, the end that old campaigners cannot anticipate was suddenly in sight. It came as a shock to Bastico’s staff. The place names should have indicated their progress, but a collective failure of imagination had set in and no mental spark instigated the connection between place names and actual geographic location. And yet, there it was. Bastico’s two corps that continued moving northward suddenly found themselves on the approaches to Moscow itself. Self-conscious of the position they were in, both geographically and strategically, the Italian generals realized that the subsequent advances would take the form of a race. The road to Moscow was bare, with nary a Soviet formation in front save for a vulnerable headquarters. Yet just to the west, the vanguard of the Soviet flood heading eastward was fast approaching. A race indeed had begun, more so than before. Would the Italians reach Moscow, or would the Soviets block their path?
Onward, to Moscow!
By the end of the month, the stage was set for the final, most important, push of the Italian offensive. The Soviet threat in eastern Ukraine had been reduced to a miniscule pocket about to be liquidated. the two Italian armies present in the Kazan and the Caucasus were advancing rapidly, limited much more by their stretched logistics than the foes, few and far-between, before them. The Soviets were flooding eastward at an ever increasing rate, and the race toward Moscow was on.
The full theater situation on March 1.
The Soviets had bled heavily in the latter half of February, having suffered over thirty thousand seven hundred dead in just two more weeks of operations. The Italians during the same period lost less than half as many men, or just over twelve thousand seven hundred. The Soviets, in addition, had lost a number of divisions. They were simply hemorrhaging men at an astounding rate. Yet the will remained more resilient than the flesh. Soviet armies have been repeatedly shattered during the war, yet the Soviets have not given up and indeed have been forging slow progress against the Germans, albeit not against the Italians despite their greater weight of resources and their temporary successes of yesteryears. The end, however, was in sight. Moscow was a short leap away. If only the Soviet torrent could be delayed a little longer.
Part 5: The Great Offensive V, February 15 – March 1, 1945
Nothing ever prepares old campaigners for the end of the operation. One reason for this is that it is notoriously hard to actually beat any enemy, for the will is always more resilient than the flesh so that even if armies are shattered, nations rarely are. Many other factors of course also play a role in making the end of any operation a surprise of sorts. Of course, one of the greater factors in a theater such as the Soviet Union is geography. The blank expanses of the Soviet Union give a better impression of infinite than infinite itself ever could, and give all invaders the impression that the ultimate objective will never be reached, and victory always out of grasp. There is always the next isolated village to attack, the next river to cross, the next division to break. In such an environment, the end never gets any closer.
Bastico’s and Baistrocchi’s armies were by mid-February moving to eradicate the problem of active Soviet formations in eastern Ukraine once and for all, each contributing one corps to the exercise for a total of nine divisions, besides numerous German divisions which could not prevent the issue in the first place. They were not moving toward the great objective of Moscow, but they were supporting the thrust by removing a distracting threat. The five divisions Bastico dedicated to the task swept southward from Kharkov, racing through the empty Soviet rear toward the Black Sea. Simultaneously, the four divisions that Baistrocchi contributed to the operation, Visconti Prasca’s corps, moved northward from Rostov-na-Don to meet Bastico’s formations. All the Soviet forces in eastern Ukraine were on the frontline facing the Germans and comprised three marine divisions, a motorized division and an armored division, as well as a headquarters. By the 21st, the trap was completed. The Soviet formations were isolated and Bastico’s corps was swinging in from the rear to crush them.
The eradication of the Soviet threat in eastern Ukraine.
Much to the West, the Soviet salient in southeastern Poland was buzzing like a provoked beehive. Formations were rushing by the score eastward, given the unprecedented disaster that had struck the Soviets. With the exception of the isolated Soviet divisions trapped against the Black Sea, there were virtually no Soviet forces between the Dnepr and the Caucasus. The pressure of the Soviet torrent eastward was so great that the Germans forces on the southern front of their Belarusian shelf were being pushed north- and westward. The Italians, meanwhile, suddenly found their advance in this area, if not halted, then at least much slower and more bloody. Guzzoni was still operating in the bulk of the salient itself, while Pintor was trying to interfere with their eastward redeployments. Due to the shaping of the front, Graziani, rather than being back-to-back with Pintor, was now next to him and was similarly active trying to make their eastward journeys difficult.
The Pripet Marsh gap.
Between victory in the east and difficulty in the west, the end that old campaigners cannot anticipate was suddenly in sight. It came as a shock to Bastico’s staff. The place names should have indicated their progress, but a collective failure of imagination had set in and no mental spark instigated the connection between place names and actual geographic location. And yet, there it was. Bastico’s two corps that continued moving northward suddenly found themselves on the approaches to Moscow itself. Self-conscious of the position they were in, both geographically and strategically, the Italian generals realized that the subsequent advances would take the form of a race. The road to Moscow was bare, with nary a Soviet formation in front save for a vulnerable headquarters. Yet just to the west, the vanguard of the Soviet flood heading eastward was fast approaching. A race indeed had begun, more so than before. Would the Italians reach Moscow, or would the Soviets block their path?
Onward, to Moscow!
By the end of the month, the stage was set for the final, most important, push of the Italian offensive. The Soviet threat in eastern Ukraine had been reduced to a miniscule pocket about to be liquidated. the two Italian armies present in the Kazan and the Caucasus were advancing rapidly, limited much more by their stretched logistics than the foes, few and far-between, before them. The Soviets were flooding eastward at an ever increasing rate, and the race toward Moscow was on.
The full theater situation on March 1.
The Soviets had bled heavily in the latter half of February, having suffered over thirty thousand seven hundred dead in just two more weeks of operations. The Italians during the same period lost less than half as many men, or just over twelve thousand seven hundred. The Soviets, in addition, had lost a number of divisions. They were simply hemorrhaging men at an astounding rate. Yet the will remained more resilient than the flesh. Soviet armies have been repeatedly shattered during the war, yet the Soviets have not given up and indeed have been forging slow progress against the Germans, albeit not against the Italians despite their greater weight of resources and their temporary successes of yesteryears. The end, however, was in sight. Moscow was a short leap away. If only the Soviet torrent could be delayed a little longer.
Funny, Red army units that shatter in combat, will come to Moscow faster than those that try to fight their way there.
Moscow is as much as open, unless you screw something badly.
Where is the German offensive?
They could make the war much shorter, would they hit NOW the Soviet pocket and strangle it!!!!
Moscow is as much as open, unless you screw something badly.
Where is the German offensive?
They could make the war much shorter, would they hit NOW the Soviet pocket and strangle it!!!!