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They're not as effective, per wing at doing damage as TACs, but they're no less effective at GA/Interdict when used from land-based strips than they are when flown from carriers.
At last an offensive with the true possibility of Guerra de Lampo! We can see how the Italians can do with open terrain.
The vast size can be a problem, yes, but is it not nice to be away from the constriction of the Balkans?
The vast size can be a problem, yes, but is it not nice to be away from the constriction of the Balkans?
Just another quick tip of the hat from a long-time lurker - thank you myth for this extensive, long-lasting and well-written AAR.
And I agree with the choice of #2 - let's end this great AAR on a high note.
Hope you can handle all the praise
And I agree with the choice of #2 - let's end this great AAR on a high note.
Hope you can handle all the praise
Baltasar: True.
womble: As I figured. Didn't think of rebasing them though.
Maj. von Mauser: As I think I probably mentioned elsewhere, the constrictions are what gave me the advantage. Now I have none.
kguld: It's hard to swell my ego. At least in regards to strategy, it can't really get any bigger.
Update tonight!
womble: As I figured. Didn't think of rebasing them though.
Maj. von Mauser: As I think I probably mentioned elsewhere, the constrictions are what gave me the advantage. Now I have none.
kguld: It's hard to swell my ego. At least in regards to strategy, it can't really get any bigger.
Update tonight!
The Year of Ruin
Part 3: The Great Offensive III, January 21 – February 1, 1945
Everything in war is a process. Policy, strategy, operations and tactics are all processes that must be undertaken in a highly ambiguous, uncertain and dynamic environment where allies are rarely fully cooperative, if that word can even be used to describe their efforts, and enemies are actively trying to bring one’s own forces and strategies to defeat. The tactical process ends with a battle’s conclusion, the operational process ends with the closing of an operation, the process of strategy ends with the making of peace. The policy process grinds on forever, through war and peace both. The vast expanses of the Soviet Union and its still sizeable armies were providing challenges to the Italian processes at every stage. While individual tactical processes begin and end, the operational process ensures that there will always be tactical processes being undertaken somewhere. The operational process, meanwhile, may only end once the strategic process ends, as when one attempts to wage a war on the steppes in a single shot operations and strategy fuse together dangerously. Dangerous, as it might lead to the disastrous conflation of those two concepts.
And yet the Italians were indeed trying to conclude the war against the Soviet Union in a single shot, a single operation, a single offensive. Guzzoni and Pintor acted as distractions and to reduce the capability of the Soviet army to deploy elsewhere. This was an aspect of the strange tension in the Italian operational and strategic plan against the Soviet Union. On the one hand, it relied upon diffusing Soviet forces by presenting the Red Army with numerous fronts which it had to deal with, thus hopefully preventing a significant concentration of Soviet formations in any one location and allowing the Italians operational superiority. On the other hand, Guzzoni and Pintor were trying to fix the bulk of Soviet forces in southeastern Poland and northwestern Ukraine. It remained to be seen whether the idea would work. Less than a month into the offensive, it seemed to be working but then again, the Red Army was a bulky organization and the Soviet Union a big place—redeployment would inevitably take a long time regardless of Italian efforts. In the center, meanwhile, the three other Italian armies in Ukraine continued their mighty offensive northward. The Dnepr was about to be reached at numerous crossing points, and encirclements were forming. The Soviet forces trying to hold against Graziani, Vercellino and Bastico were almost disintegrating, their collapse was occurring so quickly.
Three Italian armies pushing northward.
As titanic armies clashed in Ukraine and the detritus of slaughter piled high, the operations in the Caucasus and to the north were much quieter. In the Caucasus, Italian and German forces had put the Soviets to flight, pushing them from mountain peak to mountain peak and from valley to valley. The operation there was only beginning, however, as the frontlines remained in the southern foothills of that mountain range, but the Italians were confident of being able to push the Soviets wherever they wanted to, so slight were the Soviet forces in the region. To the north, Baistrocchi threw his army east. Divisions were beginning to spread out, with the northernmost destination being Rostov-na-Don and the southernmost being nearly at Maikop. There were no Soviet formations to resist this advance, which undoubtedly was Moscow’s first priority. The Soviet army loathed a vacuum, and was sure to try to flood forces into the region at some point.
Baistrocchi pushing east.
By the end of January, the theater of operations was clearly expanding due to Italian success. In northwestern Ukraine, a small number of Soviet formations had been encircled and destroyed and many more thrashed in open battle. The Italians were nearly at the gates of Kiev and the gap between the frontlines in Ukraine and the German front in Poland was diminishing. Further east, Graziani’s and half of Vercellino’s armies were actually on the verge of a major breakthrough. They had nearly decoupled the Soviet formations directly in front of them from the rest of the Soviet frontline. The other half of Vercelino’s and Bastico’s armies was facing more difficulty, however. Kharkov was taken and represented the keystone position of an encirclement, but the Soviets were fighting hard elsewhere. Few Italian units in this region had actually crossed the Dnepr, but many were on the verge to. The Soviet line in eastern Ukraine was of some worry, however.
Italian progress in Ukraine by the end of January.
It is worth looking at this area in a bit more detail as conceivably the decisions made here may have had a disproportionate affect on the rest of the campaign. At least two of Bastico’s corps were fighting around Kharkov. This area represented the corner of the Axis front in Ukraine. To the west were Italian and German formations, the Germans being in supporting roles. To the south, the Germans were supposed to hold the Soviets out of Ukraine. In effect, the area was the end of the Italian line. As such, Bastico’s flank was in the air, and he worried about this. Thus with the fall of Kharkov, while sending two corps northward, he sent one northeast. His design was to keep extending the Italian front not only northward but eastward as well, making it a moving target for Soviet redeployments around that end of the Italian line. There was thus an inevitable slight diffusion of effort, with one corps being directed away from the straight line toward Moscow. Bastico’s logic was impeccable, but he did not have an idea of the bigger picture nor of the potential consequences of his action.
Operations around Kharkov, Bastico’s hanging flank.
As a process, strategy is difficult. A hundred factors must be juggled at once, the most important being an intelligent foe. The process is one of planning: not just the original operational scheme but also contingencies just in case factors go awry. The process is also one of actually implementing, the arena where all the factors come together and influence real operations. All these factors result in difficulties and in casualties. And yet thus far the Italian plan and process was holding together despite the difficulties it was facing. The Red Army was being whittled down at relatively little cost to the Italians themselves. The Regio Esercito lost nearly six thousand six hundred men between the 21st of January and the 1st of February. The Soviets lost over twenty-one thousand five hundred. This was a casualty ratio of nearly three-to-one, and took no account of actual Soviet formations destroyed, of which Italian estimated possibly as many as twenty over the period albeit the real amount was probably closer to a dozen. The exact number remains unknown. The Italians were also bounding toward Moscow, the ruins of whole Soviet armies behind them.
Part 3: The Great Offensive III, January 21 – February 1, 1945
Everything in war is a process. Policy, strategy, operations and tactics are all processes that must be undertaken in a highly ambiguous, uncertain and dynamic environment where allies are rarely fully cooperative, if that word can even be used to describe their efforts, and enemies are actively trying to bring one’s own forces and strategies to defeat. The tactical process ends with a battle’s conclusion, the operational process ends with the closing of an operation, the process of strategy ends with the making of peace. The policy process grinds on forever, through war and peace both. The vast expanses of the Soviet Union and its still sizeable armies were providing challenges to the Italian processes at every stage. While individual tactical processes begin and end, the operational process ensures that there will always be tactical processes being undertaken somewhere. The operational process, meanwhile, may only end once the strategic process ends, as when one attempts to wage a war on the steppes in a single shot operations and strategy fuse together dangerously. Dangerous, as it might lead to the disastrous conflation of those two concepts.
And yet the Italians were indeed trying to conclude the war against the Soviet Union in a single shot, a single operation, a single offensive. Guzzoni and Pintor acted as distractions and to reduce the capability of the Soviet army to deploy elsewhere. This was an aspect of the strange tension in the Italian operational and strategic plan against the Soviet Union. On the one hand, it relied upon diffusing Soviet forces by presenting the Red Army with numerous fronts which it had to deal with, thus hopefully preventing a significant concentration of Soviet formations in any one location and allowing the Italians operational superiority. On the other hand, Guzzoni and Pintor were trying to fix the bulk of Soviet forces in southeastern Poland and northwestern Ukraine. It remained to be seen whether the idea would work. Less than a month into the offensive, it seemed to be working but then again, the Red Army was a bulky organization and the Soviet Union a big place—redeployment would inevitably take a long time regardless of Italian efforts. In the center, meanwhile, the three other Italian armies in Ukraine continued their mighty offensive northward. The Dnepr was about to be reached at numerous crossing points, and encirclements were forming. The Soviet forces trying to hold against Graziani, Vercellino and Bastico were almost disintegrating, their collapse was occurring so quickly.
Three Italian armies pushing northward.
As titanic armies clashed in Ukraine and the detritus of slaughter piled high, the operations in the Caucasus and to the north were much quieter. In the Caucasus, Italian and German forces had put the Soviets to flight, pushing them from mountain peak to mountain peak and from valley to valley. The operation there was only beginning, however, as the frontlines remained in the southern foothills of that mountain range, but the Italians were confident of being able to push the Soviets wherever they wanted to, so slight were the Soviet forces in the region. To the north, Baistrocchi threw his army east. Divisions were beginning to spread out, with the northernmost destination being Rostov-na-Don and the southernmost being nearly at Maikop. There were no Soviet formations to resist this advance, which undoubtedly was Moscow’s first priority. The Soviet army loathed a vacuum, and was sure to try to flood forces into the region at some point.
Baistrocchi pushing east.
By the end of January, the theater of operations was clearly expanding due to Italian success. In northwestern Ukraine, a small number of Soviet formations had been encircled and destroyed and many more thrashed in open battle. The Italians were nearly at the gates of Kiev and the gap between the frontlines in Ukraine and the German front in Poland was diminishing. Further east, Graziani’s and half of Vercellino’s armies were actually on the verge of a major breakthrough. They had nearly decoupled the Soviet formations directly in front of them from the rest of the Soviet frontline. The other half of Vercelino’s and Bastico’s armies was facing more difficulty, however. Kharkov was taken and represented the keystone position of an encirclement, but the Soviets were fighting hard elsewhere. Few Italian units in this region had actually crossed the Dnepr, but many were on the verge to. The Soviet line in eastern Ukraine was of some worry, however.
Italian progress in Ukraine by the end of January.
It is worth looking at this area in a bit more detail as conceivably the decisions made here may have had a disproportionate affect on the rest of the campaign. At least two of Bastico’s corps were fighting around Kharkov. This area represented the corner of the Axis front in Ukraine. To the west were Italian and German formations, the Germans being in supporting roles. To the south, the Germans were supposed to hold the Soviets out of Ukraine. In effect, the area was the end of the Italian line. As such, Bastico’s flank was in the air, and he worried about this. Thus with the fall of Kharkov, while sending two corps northward, he sent one northeast. His design was to keep extending the Italian front not only northward but eastward as well, making it a moving target for Soviet redeployments around that end of the Italian line. There was thus an inevitable slight diffusion of effort, with one corps being directed away from the straight line toward Moscow. Bastico’s logic was impeccable, but he did not have an idea of the bigger picture nor of the potential consequences of his action.
Operations around Kharkov, Bastico’s hanging flank.
As a process, strategy is difficult. A hundred factors must be juggled at once, the most important being an intelligent foe. The process is one of planning: not just the original operational scheme but also contingencies just in case factors go awry. The process is also one of actually implementing, the arena where all the factors come together and influence real operations. All these factors result in difficulties and in casualties. And yet thus far the Italian plan and process was holding together despite the difficulties it was facing. The Red Army was being whittled down at relatively little cost to the Italians themselves. The Regio Esercito lost nearly six thousand six hundred men between the 21st of January and the 1st of February. The Soviets lost over twenty-one thousand five hundred. This was a casualty ratio of nearly three-to-one, and took no account of actual Soviet formations destroyed, of which Italian estimated possibly as many as twenty over the period albeit the real amount was probably closer to a dozen. The exact number remains unknown. The Italians were also bounding toward Moscow, the ruins of whole Soviet armies behind them.
Seems to be going swimmingly. As long as you can keep the Soviets confused and constantly redeploying, you can negate their quantitative edge. It's kind of exciting: can you keep them off balance long enough to achieve your goals, or will they pull enough forces together to stall you? Speed is of the essence (and not just because there's a game crash looming in the background...).
this indeed has a nice air of something that could work out brilliantly or go very wrong, the problem with both trying to advance and to constantly outmanouvre a large army is that sooner or later you have to come into range of their main forces - but of course thats what your German allies are there for .... to tie up the bulk of the Red Army?
How big of an male population do the Soviets have left?
Everyone working in Italy?
Everyone working in Italy?
This is a very good start to your offensive, but it's hard to tell whether the Soviets can afford to loose all that territory and ressources. As long as you can keep up making and closing local pockets you should be able to continue at least in the east and north.
Well done.
Well done.
With the crazy pre-Semper Fi AI, you should expect the unexpected (Even if it's usually in your favour!), so I'd make sure that I had a decent garrison in Madagascar if I were you!
But in all seriousness, how much armour are the soviets fielding? Have their endless tank colums been cut down by a lot?
But in all seriousness, how much armour are the soviets fielding? Have their endless tank colums been cut down by a lot?
How do you cope with the bad infrastructure in the theatre? I imagine the fact that you generally field infantry units comes in as a relief there.
I still wonder if you actually manage to cut off the Soviets in Slovakia. Whether or not you do it, the AI should see the threat and try to deal with it by either pulling out the troops or reinforcing the potential breach of it's lines.
btw, are your flyboys doing something currently?
I still wonder if you actually manage to cut off the Soviets in Slovakia. Whether or not you do it, the AI should see the threat and try to deal with it by either pulling out the troops or reinforcing the potential breach of it's lines.
btw, are your flyboys doing something currently?
So you started your offensive in the winter ... at least when it ends you will be far into Russia
Stuyvesant: Indeed, it's as much of a gamble as anything I've ever done in this AAR ever has been.
loki100: I think that's wishful thinking.
Enewald: They've got a few. Most of them are already conscripted. Available Soviet manpower must be about 0 by now.
rasmus40: Hopefully, yeah. North and east we go!
LOLKATS: No no, no Semper Fi. Just vanilla 1.4. But as for Soviet armor, I have no idea. They have enough.
BlitzMartinDK: What, not Rome?
Baltasar: The Germans don't seem to be doing much about the Slovakia crisis, but then the Slovak frontline there is about ten divisions deep per provice, so I think the Soviets have been stopped. As for my flyboys, they're not really doing anything.
Surt: Yeah, I was a bit impatient. Plus the Germans might fold up any moment.
Posting from work 'cause I forgot to do so this morning from home.
loki100: I think that's wishful thinking.
Enewald: They've got a few. Most of them are already conscripted. Available Soviet manpower must be about 0 by now.
rasmus40: Hopefully, yeah. North and east we go!
LOLKATS: No no, no Semper Fi. Just vanilla 1.4. But as for Soviet armor, I have no idea. They have enough.
BlitzMartinDK: What, not Rome?
Baltasar: The Germans don't seem to be doing much about the Slovakia crisis, but then the Slovak frontline there is about ten divisions deep per provice, so I think the Soviets have been stopped. As for my flyboys, they're not really doing anything.
Surt: Yeah, I was a bit impatient. Plus the Germans might fold up any moment.
Posting from work 'cause I forgot to do so this morning from home.
Yeah, that's what I meant, pre-Semper Fi. Are the soviets having trouble reinforcing their troops? Or are they finding it difficult to keep up with their losses?LOLKATS: No no, no Semper Fi. Just vanilla 1.4. But as for Soviet armor, I have no idea. They have enough.
Is it wrong for me to hope this goes badly? While it would be most impressive to see Italy force a Soviet capitulation, there would be a kind of sick fascination in watching a long fighting withdrawal back to the Alpi svizzere!
Don't worry, we're all thinking it. You just had the guts to say it!
Actually, what is more depressing is that the game is so screwed up as to allow the italian player to do this, with germany (and Japan!) being such clusterfucks!
o