Explorations in Strategy - Italy at War

[Myth]

thatguy: Just infrastructure, at least until there's pressing need to hit actual formations.

rasmus40: Hey don't blame intelligence for that, the navy guys saw them!

FrodoB:

alvaro: If they're laying all their hopes on the Luxembourgians, well...I dunno. They just suck. The Germans, I mean, not the Lux.

Jemisi: At least there are more Slovaks than Lux.

Update tonight!

[BlitzMartinDK]

And I still want an update on the Finnish(ed) situation

[Valentinan]

I wanted to report back to the group on Italian commanders (without naming names) and how to get the most out of them.

If starting with the '36 scenario simply fight a guerrilla war in Ethiopia, that is, use no infantry or alpine troops—just militia. The battles last quite long, and in the process commander's gain more experience. When an officer reaches experience level 3, just swap him out for another and continue the war. Within a few years all Italian commanders will be level 3 and ready to fight the British.

If starting the '38 scenario, which is much more of a challenge, one does not have the luxury of time. So, here's what to do:

1) Demote any and all commanders (including the old guard) with offensive, defensive, commando, engineer, or trickster specialty down to Major General.

2) Assign all offensive and defensive commanders to front-line infantry units for duty against the Allies (wherever the fighting is heaviest).

3) Assign commanders with tank speciality to light tank units (naturally).

4) Assign commanders with engineer or trickster speciality to motor infantry, and make sure to separate the motorized infantry from the regular infantry so they can move rapidly in support of the tanks.

5) Assign logistical commanders to alpine troops and cavalry.

6) Assign commando officers to militia units.

7) Officer corps will all be level two or above. They include primarily non-speciality commanders, or those with fortress or logistical speciality. Promote all those that remain to the necessary posts among the various HQs.

Explaination for the above, in reverse order:

HQ: The reasons for the above are simply to get the officers with the needed specialties into the front-line units to make maximum use of their abilities and gain the most experience from fighting. As logistical commanders reach level three in experience, then promote them to a needed posting in HQ units. Back-fill those posts with the best officer available regardless of skill, and keep them in the front-line until they reach experience level three. Fortress speciality are generally reserved for attacks on forts, but they can be of service in HQ's until a posting on the front opens up.

Militia: The reason why militia units get commandos is because this combination works best in Africa where supplies are few and units generally run on detached duty. Combinations of commando + defence specialties and the like should get the priority (excepting engineers or tricksters, who always go to the motorized divisions).

Mountain troops and Cavalry: Alpine troops are supply hungry, and since they are used in mountainous terrain where supplies take more time to reach, logistical commanders are best in this regard. Agiain, officer's with combined skills in offence or defence get the priority. The absolute worst logistical commanders are assigned to cavalry units, where I use them for partisan suppression in Albania (but you can do with them what you like).

Motorized Infantry: Officers with engineer or trickster skills are best utilized by the fast-moving motorized infantry who need to follow the armored units around and provide necessary support.

Light Tanks: Tank commanders, particularly those with a combination of skills, get the preference for armored units. Armored units generally consist of one light tank and one motorized infantry to obtain the combined-arms bonus.

Infantry: Front-line infantry units with three brigades of infantry get all the remaining officer's with offensive and defensive specialties. Don't promote any of these officers, rather leave them at the division level throughout the game where they do the most good.

Other: Without going into too much detail; my preference for marines are the most experienced offensive commanders, and for paratroops I like any commando with combined skill sets. I also prefer officer's with combined skill sets for medium or heavy tank units.

So, there you have it. The above methods will get the best from the Italian officer corps, or any county's officers for that matter.


“Pound them Harry, pound them!” General Allenby during the attack on Jerusalem--from the movie, Laurence of Arabia.

. . .

[Myth]

BlitzMartinDK: I do have one to write, I just don't know yet when I'll write it.

Valentinan: Interesting thoughts, though I'm not the kind of player to try to get the maximum out of my leaders like that (swapping out leaders etc). feels too gamey. Besides, I've come to the conclusion that, when controlling units at the divisional level, the leaders themselves are much less important than the player's own operational skill. Plus, the British really aren't that big a threat when it comes to land warfare.

Update coming up!

[Myth]

The Year of the Masters of War
Part 6: The Great Gamble of the War II, July 7 – July 10, 1944

The Regio Esercito, in partnership with the Regia Marina, had made three landings in the past half a month: at Athens, at Istanbul and at Eregli. Baistrocchi’s 11a Armata was stretched out over an enormous area, his army’s corps components connected only by the Italian navy. Five Italian armies sat on the Illyrian line: Graziani’s 1a Armata, Bastico’s 2a Armata, Pintor’s 7a Armata, Guzzoni’s 8a Armata and Amadeo duca degli Abruzzi’s 9a Armata. Grossi’s army in Hispania had been reduced to the very bones to marshal the men for this Balkan enterprise. Italians, too, still fought in Central Africa—or perhaps better to say, safeguarded Eastern Africa without fighting. On the Illyrian line stood over three hundred and forty thousand men, twenty-seven thousand in Hispania, and thirty-eight thousand in Africa. Baistrocchi’s army consisted of ninety thousand spread across the perimeter of a quarter of a continent. And yet, despite such a prodigal display of Italian manpower, one army remained yet unused.

Forgotten by many commentators in the excitement of the landings, Vercellino’s 5a Armata of eighty-two thousand men remained at Taranto. His movements were dictated by two considerations: opportunity and shipping. He had not been forgotten by Mussolini by any means. Instead, his planned landing vied with that at Istanbul in importance. Italian intelligence kept a close eye on Soviet deployments, and on July 6th sent a note to Mussolini that the moment was auspicious for a landing. By that same time, the three previous landings were completed and, while there would be future redeployments, the entirety of Italian shipping could be dedicated to transporting Vercellino’s forces to where they needed to be. Owing to transport losses in previous years, by some accident or fluke to British destroyers deep in the north end of the Red Sea, a number of Italian transports had been destroyed. This meant that, despite the efforts of the Italian shipbuilding industry to recoup the losses incurred, Vercellino’s entire army could not be moved in a single convoy. This was unfortunate, but not fatal. Two corps could be moved, and they were. On July 7th, Vercellino made his landing with one corps of infantry and his mobile corps. The landing was at Vylkove.


Vercellino’s landing at Vylkove.

With seven divisions fully ashore by the early morning of the 8th, and the rest of his army ready for transport at the docks of Taranto, Vercellino put into effect his ambitious plan. It was dangerous, particularly given that there was a Soviet armored division directly to the southwest of Vylkove. However, da Zara’s aviators still dominated the skies, and the crossroads and the bridges and the supply depots, north of Vercellino’s planned march, which would reduce any potential pressure on Vercellino from the north. Already by the 8th Soviet formations that were moving southward from Dacia toward Istanbul were being diverted back northward in an attempt to stem this new surprise. Vercellino’s plan was a simple one, and was almost a complete copy of one that had occurred over two years previously. His forces would push directly westward until they made contact with the Hungarian border, and from then on simply maintain their land-blockade of the entirety of the southeast of Europe. This was why his mobile corps was on the wave to hit the beaches, because it was an integral part of the plan and its speed would be appreciated, given Italy’s previous experience with this risky maneuver. Vercellino’s infantry would, for the first days, remain in Vylkove to protect the headquarters and supply base from any counterattacks. The second major piece of Mussolini’s gamble was now in place, and an entire army of eighty-two thousand dangled at the end of a long maritime line of communication, incredibly fragile.


Vercellino’s planned advance.

By July 9th, the Soviet army in the Balkans was in absolute chaos as its headquarters could not fathom where the Italian center of gravity was. Where was the main effort? More importantly, where was the most important effort? Which of the Italian landings proved the most threatening to the Soviets? Of the threatening landings, which were the most vulnerable? These were all important questions the Soviets had to pose to themselves and then answer, but over which the generals had little traction. Soviet divisions were being diverted from one landing to another almost at random, and it could all be detected by Italian intelligence. The first wave had reached southern Illyria and many were on the way to Greece, but some were going toward Dacia and others still going back northward, for whatever odd reason. Another wave was also in the offing, mostly going east-northeastward to counter Vercellino’s landing. Even the Soviets could sense the danger here, and were likely determined to try to do something about it. There were a bizarre handful of British and Persian divisions in Illyria, cut out from Soviet operational planning and intelligence of any kind, and merely watched in consternation at the confusion of Soviet arms. Meanwhile in the confusion, there were only two Soviet formations actually in a position from which they could gain direct contact with Italian forces: one was the headquarters that Visconti Prasca’s divisions were forcing into retreat time and again away from Istanbul. The other was the armored division Vercellino had landed right next to. As yet, and two weeks into the campaign, no Soviet division had yet reached any of the new fronts, not even the formations that were close by in Thrace or Dacia.


The complete situation in southeastern Europe.

Into this breach of chaos caused by the multiple Italian landings in the Soviet deep rear stepped Army Group East, under Badaglio. Its five armies and three hundred and forty thousand men were finally to be unleashed. Badaglio had judged, in concordance with Mussolini and the army and corps commanders, that the Soviet defense were finally think enough to be worth attacking. The balance of five armies, rather than four as the previous year, was a boon for the Italians. It allowed them to dedicate two armies to pushing southward, two to pushing eastward and one to hold the front between these two thrusts. Guzzoni’s and Amadeo duca degli Abruzzi’s armies were on the southern flank, and in that direction they began their assaults. Like Pintor the year previously, they aimed first to cut off Soviet divisions in Zadar before sweeping down the coast. In the north, Pintor and Bastico began aiming for a joint encirclement of their own. Graziani’s army for the moment stood and did nothing, for it was judged better this way, to make a possibility for encirclement in the middle of the front opposite him as well.


The Illyrian front, it finally moves! Note the Persian headquarters and British formations.

And so the third and final piece of Mussolini’s gamble began. The hammer blow from Illyria, whose job was to destroy the scattered formations of the Soviet Balkan theater, was started. The lessons of the previous year had been learned, and Mussolini believed they had been learned well. Furthermore, Italy now had more men in arms than at any time previously in the war. And yet, despite this, the combined Italian forces still counted for only half a million or thereabouts—the same as the foes they faced. It would be a bloody struggle no matter what happened.

[FrodoB]

All I can say is...

[loki100]

really impressive ... can imagine the AI is having a wee electronic breakdown trying to work out what next

[Enewald]

7a armata, not 5a armata in Bessarabia.
Drive asap to them and reinforce the line.
First the pocket must be closed and kept well tight.
Then let the fools be annihilated...

[ColossusCrusher]

If this works, the only thing stopping you are the troops against the Germans...if they move, only Hitler's idiocy is stopping the Germans.

[Baltasar]

Good plan locking the escape route back northwards, but I'm not convinced that this thin line will stop the Russians from breaking through. Instead of blind holding orders, which are not suitable for a genius military thinker, that front should instead leave one corps in the north and have the other units move south, thereby making room to retreat to and closing the pocket faster. The Russians had sent considerable forces in the past against any Italian static front, they'll do it here, too. Hence a rearguard is left in the north to deter weak Russian attacks and create some breathing space for the Italian infantry.

The troops in and around Greece can be moved to any front which is in dire need of troops once their job in Greece is done.

[Baltasar]

If this works, the only thing stopping you are the troops against the Germans...if they move, only Hitler's idiocy is stopping the Germans.

Mussolini is doomed! *shrieks*

[FrodoB]

My question now, since you answered the one about available forces [], is if you have plans to take the two ports between Istanbul and Vylkove? With your shortage of transports, it would seem a good idea to have additional escape points for your troops to be pulled out, in the unlikely event that you need to.

I have to admit, this appears to be a brilliant expansion of the previous years plan. It seems very familliar, though...

And I think I can almost spot my condo's in the image of Vercellino's landing. I think near the SOV army HQ (at Constanta?).

[dublish]

Do you have any way of checking German and Soviet supply stockpiles, short of loading a savegame as them? The sluggishness on the Eastern Front kind of reminds me of a SCW I had in one of my games, in which both Nat and Rep Spain ran out of supplies and could not mount any offensives after about mid-1937. The German advance in Finland might suggest otherwise, but that looks like it was supplied by convoy.

[Palmyrene]

Wow - taken me some time to catch up again with this AAR.

As Frodo B said, this strategy looks familar... .

Fast forward to 1948, Commando Supremo, Rome...

Vercellino "It's the same plan that we used last time, Sir. And the seventeen times before that!".

MUSSOLINI "Exactly! And thats what is so brilliant about it! It will catch the watchful Reds totally off guard! Doing exactly what we've done eighteen times before will be the last thing they'll expect us to do this time...."

(With apologies to Blackadder....).

Keep going, Myth

[Judas Maccabeus]

Well this ought to be interesting. There is every potential for this to turn into a complete mess, which is probably not a good thing, though...

[bbcrackmonkey]

Yup, totally called it.

As soon as I saw you bombing the garrison around Istanbul I knew this was your plan.

Can the Soviet forces get adequate supplies through Southern Turkish or Black Sea ports? Or are you going to cut those off too?

[Jemisi]

Hopefully the cavalry can close the supply lines quick enough. I was thinking about the five army setup. Did you consider having a right and centre thrust next to one another with the left flank army driving straight for Dacia?

[Jorath13]

This...is AWESOME! I'm holding out hope for this offensive to push the Reds out of your lands finally. The fighting will be fierce and I imagine many a wife and mother will get the letter(s) they dread. And I knew too that you had some sort of operational reserve.

[Myth]

FrodoB:

loki100: Pretty much.

Enewald: Yeah I realize Vercellino's is the 7a Armata, but so is Pintor's. I need to change one of them, so Vercellino's is going to become the 5a.

ColossusCrusher: Damn Germans!

Baltasar: Ahh, but my northern flank is already being covered, by carrier air.

Baltasar: I hope not!

FrodoB: We'll see.

dublish: Not really, unfortunately. I haven't bothered to spy on the Germans, and the Soviet security forces are rather too effective, makes spying a waste of leadership.

Palmyrene: I take it then that you don't rate the chances of success as being too high.

Judas Maccabeus: Depends on whom is made into a mess.

bbcrackmonkey: Turkey has only two ports: Istanbul and Eregli. Granted they'd have ports on the west coast of the Black Sea, but I have no idea how any convoys they have.

Jemisi: My plan is well considered. Which may or may not answer your question.

Jorath13: Reserves tend to be a good thing, yeah.

[Juan_de_Marco]

Just one thing that might become a problem: Bessarabia is home territory where the Soviets can deploy new forces, breaking your encirclement of the Balkan. So a word of (probably unneeded, unwanted) advice: Keep planes there at all times, even when it seems more optimal to use them to destroy divisions in the inner of the Balkan. That little line will be too fragile as it already is, and you cannot afford anything less than full commitment there.