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Thread: Explorations in Strategy - Italy at War

  1. #601
    Colonel Cpt Crash's Avatar
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    While it is impressive what Il Duce has accomplished with the Navy, I wonder what he has done to improve the Army?

    In view of the small size of Italian divisions, it would seem to be the rational approach to have the most modern equipment in Europe. If Italy goes to war with smaller than average divisions with archaic equipment, the future does not bright.

    One might assume that the new Roman Empire would last only twenty years or so under such circumstances.

  2. #602
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  3. #603
    Field Marshal Stuyvesant's Avatar
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    The Germans. Stalled. On Belgium. After they %#@ed the s%(7 out of Poland and overran the Netherlands in mere days. That is, hmm... Unexpected.

    Oh, I fully believe you when you say it's only temporary so I'm not worried about the Axis fortunes. Not yet, anyway. But really, Belgium?

    Good example of how much history HOI3 can vary. I know it's a matter of taste, but personally I like the level of uncertainty it introduces. To each his own.

  4. #604
    Strategy Cognoscenti Demi Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Rensslaer: I'm finally ready to turn back to Italy's own exploits with the next update, having set the scene in Europe. So, you'll soon learn what Mussolini has been preparing for all this time!

    Jorath13: The Summer War only helps me, so I don't care much. As for my plans, soon they will be revealed.

    The Balbinater: War Italy will get, and soon! Worry not!

    Baltasar: I agree to some extent with both statements.

    BlitzMartinDK: Non sequitur IMHO. It wasn't Winter War experience that allowed the Soviets to "use" winter, and you can't "use" a season anyway. The frictions induced by winter were also quite bad for the Soviets when they tried going onto the attack, though they were better prepared to deal with this friction.

    billy bob: I haven't even done anything in the past couple updates to be congratulated on! Soon, though, soon...

    Maj. von Mauser: Hehe, it's the way I have my pop-ups set up, I don't get it when other states declare war or have events or anything, and I typically keep my events logged minimized, so I don't notice. I spend a lot of time scrolling around Europe (and sometimes the world) watching events so I'll tend to catch these things soon after they start, but rarely when they start.

    Cpt Crash: Well, a central theme of the last three or four tech updates has been that Mussolini's been focusing more on army stuffs, sometimes tech but mostly doctrine stuff. Besides, he's also not anticipating a war with the Allies just yet, so there's still time to prepare for that.

    MastahCheef117: That's a pain.

    Stuyvesant: Aye. I was surprised too, but it helps Mussolini, so I'm not complaining.

    I won't have an update for tomorrow night as today I'll be at the launch event for a University of Reading research project, on the Liberal Way of War, which will have lectures by Sir Michael Howard and Colin S. Gray (among other people), if those names mean anything to anyone. Also, tomorrow I'll be busy all day, working on a half hour presentation for one of my seminars in Modern Strategy.

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  5. #605
    A bunny with a hat Moderator Nikolai II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuyvesant View Post
    The Germans. Stalled. On Belgium. After they %#@ed the s%(7 out of Poland and overran the Netherlands in mere days. That is, hmm... Unexpected.

    Oh, I fully believe you when you say it's only temporary so I'm not worried about the Axis fortunes. Not yet, anyway. But really, Belgium?

    Good example of how much history HOI3 can vary. I know it's a matter of taste, but personally I like the level of uncertainty it introduces. To each his own.
    All it would have taken for the assault against Belgium to stall a little would be for the Eben Emael commanders to manage to go topside and fight the airlanded troops. And if Belgium has had time to see the writing on the wall (Netherlands attacked) and mobilize.. well, it is not so surprising that the Germans falter a while.. (just like in WW1 )
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  6. #606
    Enewald Enewald's Avatar
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    Belgians always lose Eben Emael quite swiftly.

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  7. #607
    [QUOTE=Maj. von Mauser;10255717]I hate to criticise, but how the hell can you/Mussolini be unaware of all that is happening. This is 4 wars in a row that you have missed. You need to turn on pop-up notifier mate. It just kinda ruins the immersion to read about the most powerful and dynamic man in the world not even knowing when his own ally declares war on somebody!Ugh! /QUOTE]

    Actually, in the context of this AAR it *is* a little strange, but OTOH, such an approach could be fun for a more 'Il Duce is a buffoon' AAR.

    -- Beppo

  8. #608
    Field Marshal Maj. von Mauser's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Beppo;10257259]
    Quote Originally Posted by Maj. von Mauser View Post
    I hate to criticise, but how the hell can you/Mussolini be unaware of all that is happening. This is 4 wars in a row that you have missed. You need to turn on pop-up notifier mate. It just kinda ruins the immersion to read about the most powerful and dynamic man in the world not even knowing when his own ally declares war on somebody!Ugh! /QUOTE]

    Actually, in the context of this AAR it *is* a little strange, but OTOH, such an approach could be fun for a more 'Il Duce is a buffoon' AAR.

    -- Beppo
    Yeah, I went a little overboard, but yeah. It's just kinda weird to read about the exacting and precise Mussolini not knowing that WW2 started.
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  9. #609
    Strategy Cognoscenti Demi Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Nikolai II: That's true. Though this time, the Germans are attacking on a front a bit larger than historically.

    Enewald: Excellent! Where were you?

    Beppo: Maybe. Or maybe Il Duce is a bit overworked.

    Maj. von Mauser: Mussolini is busy. Remember that all these past four updates are all basically occurring simultaneously, and there's yet more to come.

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  10. #610
    Strategy Cognoscenti Demi Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    The Year of Aggression
    Part 5: Operation Anicius Gallus I, June 26 – July 23, 1939

    During the month between the end of June and the end of July, Mussolini sat down with five other men in Rome to plan a new operation, Anicius Gallus. These three other men were Pintor, commanding general of the 7a Armata; Bastico, commanding general of the 2a Armata; Badaglio, commanding general of Army Group East; Campioni, admiral of Italy’s carrier-centric fleet; and finally Ghé, admiral of Italy’s battleship-centric fleet. They were planning another limited war, under the cover of international events so that no one state pick them out and declare war on them in response, as the Allies had done over Poland.

    As they were planning this operation, Quilicci was already implementing a preliminary, and indeed requisite, part of the operation. He was tasked to take the 7a Armata, recently detached from Army Group Iberia, under Nasi, back to Italy. Their path would take them past the French coast, causing the French Navy to shadow the transport convoy for a while, before the transports sailed into Italian territorial waters, where the French did not follow. The Italians were not hostile to the French, certainly not in the immediate sense which the French were worried about, given events in Eastern Europe. As Italy moved its most infamous army—the 7a, the interveners in Spain—the final throes of the Polish campaign were underway.


    Quilicci, removing the 7a Armata from Spain.

    By the 30th of June, the convoy had reached its destination: Trieste. From there, Pintor’s army deployed southward, toward Kozina and Rovigno. It was immediately apparent from these new surroundings what their future task would be: the invasion and conquest of Yugoslavia. From its positioning, it was immediately apparent that the 7a Armata was to be the main hammer blow, the army that would be pushing deep into Yugoslavia. The rumor-mongers who suggested this were more right than they could have possibly imagined.


    Deploying the 7a Armata along the Yugoslavian border.

    The 7a Armata consisted of eight divisions in two corps, four divisions apiece. In terms of numbers it was a modest force, though it was a potent one, particularly against an unassuming opponent. Yugoslavia was envisaged as being such an opponent, its army was relatively small and it was unmobilized. The frontier guards were expected to shatter and the speed of the Italian advance would prevent any new line of resistance from being formed. In this spirit, Pintor’s operational plan was a bold one. To risk anachronism, it is worth mentioning that its concept was more in line with the future Soviet concept of Deep Operations than with the German blitzkrieg. The eight divisions of the 7a Armata would push deep, very deep, into Yugoslavia: past Sarajevo and toward the outskirts of Belgrade, along a wide front. In part this was because of the nature of the front; it was narrow initially but would quickly blow out into quite wide frontages. Further, it represented Pintor’s—and, indeed, everyone’s—confidence. Finally, it represented the first major general staff operational plan: Spain was too small to stress the operational planners much, whereas Yugoslavia was much, much bigger.


    Pintor’s plan for the 7a Armata.

    As opposed to the confident and ambitious plans Pintor laid for the 7a Armata, Bastico’s plans for his 2a Armata were much more modest. In part this was because Pintor’s plan envisaged pinching the 2a Armata out of the front as the 7a Armata would take over the whole length. Also, the 2a Armata was much weaker than the 7a Armata. It consisted of only four divisions in one corps. The entire edifice was green: Bastico had no recent experience, neither did his corps commanders, their divisional commanders, nor the frontline soldiers themselves. Compared to the awe-inspiring 7a Armata, with its highly skilled leaders and blooded soldiers, the 2a Armata was a force rather unsure of itself. Bastico therefore set it limited goals. His goal was the conquest of Ljubljana, no more and no less. He deemed this task firmly within the capabilities of his army, and he shared Pintor’s confidence that Yugoslavian resistance would be short and there would be no need for his army to partake further.


    Bastico’s plan for the 2a Armata.

    Altogether, thus, the operational plan was a somewhat schizophrenic mess. Twelve divisions, three corps headquarters and two army headquarters were expected to overrun Yugoslavia. Bastico’s plan was conservative but, admittedly, there was little space for maneuver in northern Yugoslavia. Pintor’s plan was ambitious to the point of foolhardiness, but his confidence and experience led him to believe that his army could handle the task set to it. Yugoslavia, after all, would not be ready for war. It would be a quick campaign. The only anticipated difficulties would be, of all things, Turkey and Poland. Yugoslavia, Turkey and Poland were allied and no one was sure whether or not Turkey would heed the predictable call to arms of its ally in distress. Poland was an even shadier situation, for it existed only as a government in exile in London and was part of the Allies. Invasion of Yugoslavia could, in the very worst case, result in the war Italy was not yet ready for. Mussolini decided to keep his options open and hope for the very best: no plans were made for any possible situation and no war was anticipated with the Allies.


    The entire operational plan in a single picture.

    Thus, on July 23rd, as the Germans were stalling in Belgium, Italy took advantage of the world’s attention to the situation in the Low Countries to declare a limited war on Yugoslavia. Turkey heeded the call to arms. Poland did not. In Italy, everyone breathed a sigh of relief to this news. Italy had the limited war it wanted, though slightly larger in scope. It was not yet, however, involved in the general war and for this Mussolini was profoundly grateful.


    The Italian declaration of war on Yugoslavia.

    The diplomatic side of things was ended. The planning was made. Campioni and Ghé were steaming to blockade Yugoslavian ports. The 2a Armata and the 7a Armata were ready to go. Mussolini immediately gave the word. Operation Anicius Gallus had begun.
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  11. #611
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    Maybe Pintor's plans are getting a little bit too ambitous

    As always very nice update Myth, keep it up!

  12. #612
    Enewald Enewald's Avatar
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    Looks like once Yugoslavia falls, you have to march into Turkey. And take Bulgaria and Greece also.

  13. #613
    Some interesting developments. I look forward to seeing how you plan to deal with Yugoslavia, Turkey, and the rest of the Balkan/Mediterranean area. Annexation would fit with the recreation of the Roman Empire idea, though holding so much territory is going to require significant manpower.

    At least war with Turkey gives the Italian Navy a relatively safe opportunity to gain some experience against their aging fleet. And if Turkey is occupied, Italy will have another route to Egypt and the Suez.

  14. #614
    You don't have any troops stationed in Albania? Not even to draw some border guards away from the front?

  15. #615

  16. #616
    Colonel MastahCheef117's Avatar
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    ^To Pier's post

    Doing this is very risky but very effective. Me and my friend did this several times (included in my [dead] AAR in signature), where once my Albanian invasion forces were reached by my offensive troops in Yugoslavia they went on a killing spree.
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  17. #617
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    So, march from Italy to Yugoslavia to Greece to Turkey. Sounds fun!

    Also, what is Graziani doing? Whenever I played Italy in HoI1/2 I always used him as my primary general. Is he stuck in Africa?
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  18. #618
    Field Marshal Maj. von Mauser's Avatar
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    I would liked to have seen the Air and Naval aspects examined a bit more, but the land plan seems decent. Just make shure the 2a Armata ends up in a place where it can be called upon if neccessary.

    ATM, the only problem Turkey poses it that of how to get there. While I'm shure a naval invasion would be glorious (land at the Dardanelles), I think a land invasion would be more reliable. Besides, that gives you Bulgaria and Greece to kick around aswell.


    Anyways, I look forward to the first Real War Italy has participated in since WWI.
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  19. #619
    Aaah, I must know what happens! Can't wait to see what happens with Turkey.

  20. #620
    Strategy Cognoscenti Demi Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    NilsS: Yeah, Pintor's plans are a bit much. Yugoslavia is my first major campaign in HoI3.

    Enewald: One thing at a time. Yugoslavia first.

    Cacahuananche: If that aging fleet comes out. If it sticks to port I'll have to do different things to it.

    Pier: Nah. I could have but in my recent reorg after the Spanish intervention I don't really have any free troops anywhere to send to Albania.

    CCA: That's the plan.

    MastahCheef117: In my case it wouldn't be that risky. The Yugoslavians have no troops near Albania at all.

    billy bob: Graziani is commander of one of the two armies in Army Group West, facing France.

    Maj. von Mauser: Concerning air and naval stuff, that'll be mentioned soon enough. Turkey isn't really a challenge to get to, there's no way the combined Yugo-Turkish fleet can possibly stand up to mine. And yeah, this war should be fun.

    quetzilla: Gonna have to wait through the war with Yugoslavia if you want to see what happens to Turkey!

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