Greatly Disappointed

[YunDog]

Specifically everything

Honestly, hearing you say you've played both and find them comparable is unbelievable to me - maybe you have ETW on the lowest settings possible

graphically
ETW ships look real
ETW the cannon fire looks great
ETW the ships handle and sit in the water well (EIC they float above the water)
ETW can handle 32 ships
ETW the damage looks real (EIC it looks identical no matter what damage a ship takes)
ETW ships list and sink according to their damage they take

As an average gamer all I can say is the ships and battles in ETW look real and in EIC they look fake

The ships handle alot better (maybe this is a gameplay adaptation and naval lovers dont like it)

The ship handling is more intuitive , handling large fleets is easier and alot more fun

I dunno, to me there is no comparison

and I really cant see where your coming from because they are poles apart - the fact that you think its superior leaves me agast


http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/4...621265950j.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i3...pBlowingup.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/311...ture312200.png


http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5549/hzhjzjz.jpg

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/u...1-15-22-32.jpg

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/u...3-44-25-06.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...pire_001-1.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9618/boat3l.jpg

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5621/empirec.jpg

[delra]

Yeah, let's compare a game by a small independent studio in Finland who work on another game at the same time and whose biggest achievement is some racing game noone heard of with a game made by Creative Assembly who sold hundreds of thousands of Total War games copies all over the world, created a gigantic community of modders and players and are backed up by SEGA money. :-)

Of course ETW will have better 3D, ships, water, dynamic shadows and other useless crap. Beating a big rich company in 3D is impossible due to budget issues. What EIC can beat ETW at is gameplay at strategic level cause to be honest ETW campaign and AI are crap even after patches.

So I think that's the direction Nitro should be heading. Instead of adding cute water and dynamic shadows, let's add more ports and goods (Dutch were all over Indonesia in 1604, Danish and Swedish EICs were mainly trading in China...) and overally complicate the trading aspect of the game more (how about visiting multiple ports per route?).

[eikka]

Yeah, let's compare a game by a small independent studio in Finland who work on another game at the same time and whose biggest achievement is some racing game noone heard of with a game made by Creative Assembly who sold hundreds of thousands of Total War games copies all over the world, created a gigantic community of modders and players and are backed up by SEGA money. :-)

Of course ETW will have better 3D, ships, water, dynamic shadows and other useless crap. Beating a big rich company in 3D is impossible due to budget issues. What EIC can beat ETW at is gameplay at strategic level cause to be honest ETW campaign and AI are crap even after patches.

So I think that's the direction Nitro should be heading. Instead of adding cute water and dynamic shadows, let's add more ports and goods (Dutch were all over Indonesia in 1604, Danish and Swedish EICs were mainly trading in China...) and overally complicate the trading aspect of the game more (how about visiting multiple ports per route?).

Hear, hear!!

Don't forget the number of iterations total war series has gone through already. Although they say that they start each game from "scratch", they benefit enormously from the experience of previous installations. EIC is in its first incarnation, showing a lot of potential for a great game series.

[Asso]

I didn't even buy Medieval 2 and Empire, just stopped to Rome. The AI, as Delra said, was utter crap. DarthVader, a modder from the TWC community, has made some mods that do miracles with the current systems, actually making the game fun and not just a steamroll-fest. The later installments were a lot more arcadey in tactical mode (faster action and a lot less brain involved). I remember crapping my pants in one of the instant action scenarios in the first Medieval. Just seeing an enormous mass of soldiers moving and adapting to my tactics was enough to scare me. In RTW I played without using my hands, let alone my brain. I read a lot of stuff about ETW, it seemed the AI had been heavily reworked. Then it came out, and we all saw that this wasn't the case. Same flawed diplomacy as the other games, same stupid brainless/suicidal AI. The good news is that DarthVader is seemingly taking time to put up some of his modding goodness for ETW. We'll see.

FYI, DarthVader was to be hired by CA to take care of the AI side of stuff, but he wasn't in the end. Bad move.

This one is less arcadey and more "ugly"? Personally, I don't care, as long as it plays well. Besides, I am quite content with the current graphics. I have a crap PC and I get a new. interesting game fully working out of the box without crap DRM and flawed gameplay, with a good frame rate, too. I simply can't complain.

I like to edit my posts a lot
@Delra: have you ever tried "Take Command: 2nd Manassas"? Even if the American Civil War isn't your cup of tea, that is indeed a well made game.

[delra]

Medieval 2 is worth getting just to play some of the better mods for it. Google for Stainless Steel, Broken Crescent and Third Age and see for yourself how much a crappy game can be improved by fans. Also look for Europa Barbarorum 2, it's not completed yet but it will be the best one out there once they finish it.

About AIs, CA eventually hired a guy called Lusted who is as good an AI modder as Darth, if not better. At least I liked Lusted's AIs better than Darth's. Still, after Lusted moving to ETW the best M2TW AI we have now is a continuation of Darth's work not Lusted's... so I guess Darth wins after all. :-)

Still, even with Lusted on board, ETW AI ended up being a complete retard and it basically ended my interest in ETW for a longer while. I wait for an add-on or sth now that will overhaul AI. Or for another TW game. ETW was wasted money.

[Shauku]

Yeah, let's compare a game by a small independent studio in Finland who work on another game at the same time and whose biggest achievement is some racing game noone heard of

Actually the game you are refering to (if I understand correctly ) was not made by us.

[Mnoracle]

Yeah, let's compare a game by a small independent studio in Finland who work on another game at the same time and whose biggest achievement is some racing game noone heard of with a game made by Creative Assembly who sold hundreds of thousands of Total War games copies all over the world, created a gigantic community of modders and players and are backed up by SEGA money. :-)

Of course ETW will have better 3D, ships, water, dynamic shadows and other useless crap. Beating a big rich company in 3D is impossible due to budget issues. What EIC can beat ETW at is gameplay at strategic level cause to be honest ETW campaign and AI are crap even after patches.

I suppose that was a response to a guy who claimed EIC naval battles are better then ETW by a long shot

The problem with EIC is not bad graphics but bland strategic experince. I honestly do not understand why to bother with EIC when you have Port Royale 2.

I think something is rotten if PR2 released 5 years ago is better. Yeah I know, it's different setting but the underlying experience is mostly the same. That's the problem with EIC and not bad graphic engine.

There is not enough eye candy to cause wow feeling and not enough substance in gameplay at the same time.

[Asso]

Combat in PR2 was not that great. Being forced to use one ship at a time reduced the game to a Sid Meier's Pirates! mock-up. This and the sword-fighting section show the birth of a new trend in Ascaron games. More action oriented, less spread-sheet. Having a great economic engine and a placeholder arcade part for me is not good design, unfortunately. If I want an economic game I play Patrician, if I want some good 'ole arcade swashbuckling action I play Pirates!, I find PR2 too much simplified in both parts, an unbalanced design. While naval combat was mildly enjoyable (and more arcadey), I found that the sword-fighting section wasn't. The economic part was spot-on, though. That game was sort of a middle ground between Patrician and Tortuga.

[YunDog]

Yeah, let's compare a game by a small independent studio in Finland who work on another game at the same time and whose biggest achievement is some racing game noone heard of with a game made by Creative Assembly who sold hundreds of thousands of Total War games copies all over the world, created a gigantic community of modders and players and are backed up by SEGA money. :-)

Of course ETW will have better 3D, ships, water, dynamic shadows and other useless crap. Beating a big rich company in 3D is impossible due to budget issues. What EIC can beat ETW at is gameplay at strategic level cause to be honest ETW campaign and AI are crap even after patches.

So I think that's the direction Nitro should be heading. Instead of adding cute water and dynamic shadows, let's add more ports and goods (Dutch were all over Indonesia in 1604, Danish and Swedish EICs were mainly trading in China...) and overally complicate the trading aspect of the game more (how about visiting multiple ports per route?).

I couldnt agree more, why they bothered to I dont understand because it doesnt fit with the game - if you read my intitial post. I was simply replying to MvonB who said he thought EIC had superior 3d battles. A statement which I found unbelievable.

I agree the AI in TW is a mess which is why these companies should stick to making good gameplay and strategic games - if you read my initial post

[delra]

What's kind of relevant to our discussion here, on NG page you can notice an advert saying they are looking to hire two people to work on 3D. So I guess we can expect more ships coming and also better battle graphics, dynamic shadows, clear water, smaller waves and so on. :-)

For me graphics isn't a priority at all but I think it will sell more copies of the game... so the choice where to allocate resources was probably right from business point of view.

[YunDog]

Yeh way NOT to go

I mean ETW is a perfect example - the game looks incredible - but because of non existant gameplay and terrible AI - The game is virtually unplayable!!

Good to look at, but terrible in bed - like alot of women I knew.

Thats why I suggested they dump the whole 3D battles idea and adopt a table top 'battleships' or axis and allies or HOI2 style of battles. You could still use some nice 3D ship renders and graphics but it would be a static environment - you wouldnt have to render all the motion stuff - which is a huge ask. The battles would have a set of rules like movement based on the wind, eg so many tiles with, alot less tacking against, firing arcs, seamanship, admiral traits, and random stuff like storms etc. you position your ships, the damage is calculated and displayed on the ships, next round.

Thsi would work so much better, then with the gameplay depth of the trading game (once its been tweaked and made more intuitive) - the game would be highly addictive.

At moment both elements of the game sit together like water and oil, and neither has me wanting to play the game atm.

[jmatgm]

At strategic level this game is at it's best but becomes so boring map needed to be larger. needs more content.love the strategic level just gets so hum drum nice graphics in strategic mode

[iblanco]

Specifically everything

Honestly, hearing you say you've played both and find them comparable is unbelievable to me - maybe you have ETW on the lowest settings possible

graphically
ETW ships look real
ETW the cannon fire looks great
ETW the ships handle and sit in the water well (EIC they float above the water)
ETW can handle 32 ships
ETW the damage looks real (EIC it looks identical no matter what damage a ship takes)
ETW ships list and sink according to their damage they take

As an average gamer all I can say is the ships and battles in ETW look real and in EIC they look fake

I have also ETW, with maximum settings and I don't agree with all your points. Cannon fire looks great? Whenever you remove those absurd white trails, yes, looks nice.

Ships handle well? Oh, my god! They can even turn without moving, on the same point! That's a ship? In EIC ships move like a ship, in ETW ships seem to have a wheel instead of a rudder.

Battles in EIC have also some things I don't like, like for instance, ships always have the same number of cannons, while in ETW you can loose cannons during battle. And I agree that damage is better modeled there. But movement, no, ships in ETW don't move as ships, here look like. Thus, to say that battles in ETW look real is going too far and saying that in EIC look fake, I can't agree with that.

I don't agree that a solution would be to make battles a là HOI. EIC is nothing to be with HOI, but with naval trading games like Patrician and Port Royale. There we could manage our ships in battle, with the graphics of the moment. Now, with current computers and graphics they can model, I want ship battles according with this time: in 3D, fancy and so on. In a naval trading game you can't simplify naval battles to such extent as in HOI which is about some other things. The aspect I would like to be improved is the strategic one, the economic one, with manual trade routes, a more complex economic model, with growing cities for demand to grow, be able to produce my own goods and so on. By the same reason that in naval trading game you can't simplify too much naval battles, you can't simplify too much economic model. Both of them need some complexity for the game to be deep. This would give us more hours of play and enjoyment.

[rifle0021]

I looked forward to this game for long time and tried the beta, I can say I like it at the beginning. But somehow the gameplay's become boring very soon after I played 2 games from the retail version. I never expected this game have features or options as robust as EU, HOI series or Victoria, but the stuffs players can do in EIC are indeed too limited. The trading model is simplistic and too generic. The Companies is even more generic, they have no different besides the starting locations, which makes playing as different companies meaningless. The scope of the map is too small, adding America (or Latin America) or further into other parts of Asia would add much variety and strategic possibilities. The port improvement seems to have very little impact to the gameplay. The 3d tactical battle is a nice eye candy but I'd rather have deeper gameplay, just like EU or HOI, which has simpler graphic but very rich gameplay and replay value. I guess most of the points I mentioned have been discussed by other players here but I still want to say it as I really wanted to like this game, it just grows old too soon. I really hope there will be expansions which make the potential of this games shines. For now, EIC is a missed opportunity.

[eikka]

I looked forward to this game for long time and tried the beta, I can say I like it at the beginning. But somehow the gameplay's become boring very soon after I played 2 games from the retail version. I never expected this game have features or options as robust as EU, HOI series or Victoria, but the stuffs players can do in EIC are indeed too limited. The trading model is simplistic and too generic. The Companies is even more generic, they have no different besides the starting locations, which makes playing as different companies meaningless. The scope of the map is too small, adding America (or Latin America) or further into other parts of Asia would add much variety and strategic possibilities. The port improvement seems to have very little impact to the gameplay. The 3d tactical battle is a nice eye candy but I'd rather have deeper gameplay, just like EU or HOI, which has simpler graphic but very rich gameplay and replay value. I guess most of the points I mentioned have been discussed by other players here but I still want to say it as I really wanted to like this game, it just grows old too soon. I really hope there will be expansions which make the potential of this games shines. For now, EIC is a missed opportunity.

I'm just guesssing but what you might be experiencing is the infamous boring-early-game-syndrome. The gradual ramp of the the trading quotas seems to make the gameplay feel stale in the early years of trade. Strategic challenge ramps quickly up after 1630, if you have been playing a campaign from 1600 onwards.

The 'uneventful' early game has been designed for new players to get accustomed to the game features but its' simplicity seems to lack the most typical part of the 4X games: eXploration.

That's what I find being the biggest deficit in the EIC game experience and its effect can be seen from the first impressions of the gamers in these forums.

[Nats]

I tried the demo last night and wasnt all that impressed. Seems mightily boring playing the strategy part. The ship battles I felt were actually better than ETW as I could actually control them but at the end of the day the type of ship combat represented (in fact all ship combat for that matter) is pretty boring in general - just plugging away at each other across a huge distance of nothing. This is probably why there arent that many games around featuring naval combat. Its probably only intersting if you are actually in it and then I would imagine its pretty scary. As for the rest of the game well the one thing that completely ruined the game for me was the endless loading screen every time you need to go into port. That is just completely ridiculous! No one is going to want to wait for that every time they enter a port. Pirates! was instantaneous and even that was a bit repetitive but this game takes repetitiveness to a whole new level. Theres a load of stuff that could have been done to make this game interesting - the Americas, pirates, controlling one ship in 3d, being able to walk around the ports, etc etc but its all been reasonably well done in Pirates already and this doesnt add anything new. I would advise any new players to play the demo first.

[delra]

one thing that completely ruined the game for me was the endless loading screen every time you need to go into port

Fixed in the first patch.

the Americas, pirates, controlling one ship in 3d, being able to walk around the ports, etc etc

There are Pirates in the full game. You also can control a ship yourself using WASD buttons.

[rifle0021]

I'm just guesssing but what you might be experiencing is the infamous boring-early-game-syndrome. The gradual ramp of the the trading quotas seems to make the gameplay feel stale in the early years of trade. Strategic challenge ramps quickly up after 1630, if you have been playing a campaign from 1600 onwards.

The 'uneventful' early game has been designed for new players to get accustomed to the game features but its' simplicity seems to lack the most typical part of the 4X games: eXploration.

That's what I find being the biggest deficit in the EIC game experience and its effect can be seen from the first impressions of the gamers in these forums.

Maybe I play a few more campaign to see how the things turns out. Hopefully it gives new better experience in latter game.