• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Probably. His map has Germany labeled as "Franks," and the Byzantines probably wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between French, German, and English peoples.

Yeah, I think it's normal for fictional Rome-conquering Byzantine Emperors to not play nice with the Pope (I mean, if they occupy Rome, what good Roman would not be offended :p)

VILenin might have been the last one I've read that tried to reconcile from the get-go.

"Eastern Franks" - who is that? The HRE?

Correct. France is "the Western Frankish Kingdom" and the HRE is "the Eastern Frankish Empire" in these Byzant... I mean, Roman histories.

Also, someone being nice to the Pope? This I have to see.

Pope better know his place. :D

Yup. And that place ends up being the frozen wastelands of Eastern Iceland. I have no idea how to plausibly explain that and will probably relegate him to the dustbin of history long before he moves there.

And now, for more exciting adventures of Emperor Theodoros and the Imperial Bureaucracy!
 
The Settlement in Italy

After the recovery of Rome and the rest of Italy the question that faced Theodoros was the administrative settlement of the peninsula. The southern half, from Naples to Bari, was administered by the Catepan of Italy. The northern half had no systematized administration per se, rather consisting of a patchwork of local Lombard barons, city councils and church lands, all thrown into disarray by the wars. This situation was unacceptable to Theodoros: a loyal and efficient administration was needed. Maintaining the existing institutions was out of the question. An office of Catepan or Exarch with authority over all Italy from Etruria to Apulia would make an excellent springboard for would-be usurpers. An arrangement after the Frankish fashion would be just as prone to rebellion and weak in the face of external threats, a fact that was made obvious by the relatively easy Imperial reconquest of Italy. Extension of the theme system into Italy was thus viewed as the best long-term solution, as Kaisar Romanos Komnenos reports in his chronicle of his father's reign. However, the redistribution of the popular land acquired from the Lombard dukes' and counts' estates to the soldiers of the new themes would take some time, and would further be delayed in order to avoid a sudden displacement of the serfs from those estates, which would have contributed greatly to any possible rebellions.

Therefore, a new arrangement would be needed, at least temporarily. As the old saying goes, nihil sub sole novum, and Theodoros' solution was to revive the ancient administration of Italy. Following the surrender of Rome to the Empire by the Pope, Theodoros made a great show of "The first Imperial visit to the City in centuries", and ordered the restoration of the Senate in Rome. Much like Constantine the Great some 800 years prior, Theodoros promised land grants and free grain to any senator willing to move to Rome. In addition, he elevated members of several of the prominent local families to the rank of patrikios, and admitted them to the new Roman Senate as well. This new Senate was to elect from amongst its ranks a Consul, or Hypatos each year, who would then assume administrative, and, in theory, military control of Italy. After his term of office, the same man could be elected again only after 10 years.

There were, however, significant differences between this new consulship and its ancient ancestor. There was no standing army in Italy to command, thus the military duties of the consul consisted mainly of assembling and commanding a levee in Italy with the aim of defending from an invasion long enough for one of the Thematic armies to be dispatched by Constantinople. The consul held no authority outside of Italy and had no foreign policy making or local legislative power. After his term of office he had to rely entirely on the Emperor for further appointments.

In the end, this system was to last, as the extension of the theme system into Italy never materialized. Moreover, the Senate in Rome and the Imperial Senate in Constantinople gradually gained the same range of powers and responsibilities, when Theodoros transferred the administration of Thrace to the Consul of the Senate in Constantinople and Demetrios I gave the votes of Roman and Constantinopolitan senators equal weight during the election of the Emperor. In addition, the restoration of the Roman Senate caused an influx of wealth into Rome that financed the architectural rebirth of the City. Many old buildings were restored, and many new ones were built. This, in turn, rekindled contemporary interest in the classical past that laid the foundation for the Renaissance of the late 13th century.

constantinople.jpg


Constantinople, circa 1150 AD

 
Last edited:
I'd like to hear more of the classicist tendencies; Byzantium could certainly benefit from less "Christ" and more "Rome", what with modern hindsight.
 
I dislike this division of power. Does not work amongst noble modest nobles. :D

Division of power? If you mean between the Emperor and the two Senates, there's no such thing. They just collect taxes and squabble about which city square is best suited for the Emperor's statue (it's all of them;)).

I'd like to hear more of the classicist tendencies; Byzantium could certainly benefit from less "Christ" and more "Rome", what with modern hindsight.

That's definitely the direction I'm heading in, although I doubt there wll be much "Rome" in this AAR. But I've got great plans for EU3, and have been silently working on an alternate history mod partially based on this AAR with Kommunaut for some time now. As for classicist tendencies, I might do a "cultural developments" chapter once I get to 1200, provided I find some suitable art.
 
The conquest of Croatia

Theodoros stayed primarily in Italy overseeing the restoration of the Roman Senate and various public works projects in Rome and the rest of Italy. However, war was never far from Theodoros’ mind, and in 1132, he seized an opportunity to invade the Kingdom of Croatia. In 1131, the old King, Drago Tripmirovic died, and left the kingdom to his infant son. Evtimii Kosaca, the Duke of Inland Croatia, initially headed the council of nobles. However, his rule was contested by the King’s uncle, Luka, and in February 1132 Luka succeeded in a palace coup and overthrew the regency of Evtimii with the help of the palace guard. Evtimii was never captured, and made his way to Constantinople. He asked Emperor Theodoros to intervene, hoping that back in Senia Luka would murder the infant king and that the Roman intervention would then depose Luka and install Evtimii on the throne. Theodoros, never being one to pass up an opportunity, agreed.

The invasion got underway by May, and quickly crushed Luka’s hastily assembled army. Senia fell on September 9, 1132; Luka was captured and executed on the orders of Theodoros. The infant king allegedly died during the assault on Senia as well, but there is significant evidence to believe that he was executed on the orders of Theodoros as well. Theodoros, expressing regret that the Croatian royal line has become extinct, declared the Kingdom dissolved and reorganized as the Imperial Theme of Dalmatia, with Evtimii Kosaca appointed Praetor. For the time, Croatia was pacified.

In June 1147, the infamous filoque incident took place in Zagreb that sparked the Croat rebellion. The aging Evtimii, thinking the time has come finally to crown himself King, openly supported the rebellion. The popular uprising continued for nearly a decade, but Evtimii was caught and executed before the year was out. The rebellion was only completely stamped out by 1154, at which time Uros, Evtimii’s brother was appointed Praetor of Dalmatia.
 
So Croatia, probably religious reorganization too? Orthodox bishops and so on?

Bonus points if they keep the Glagolithic :D
 
There has never been an Kingdom of Croatia, it has always been an Roman province since the times of republic. :p
Some local strongmen might just have pretended they had there some kind of kingdom. :D
 
Nice AAR I must say. Subscribed.
 
Nice AAR I must say. Subscribed.

Thanks and welcome aboard!

There has never been an Kingdom of Croatia, it has always been an Roman province since the times of republic. :p
Some local strongmen might just have pretended they had there some kind of kingdom. :D

They were actually recognized by Byzantines as a kingdom. Which means the leader got the title of Archon. Which really means that he was a governor under the Emperor of the Romans. So exactly as you said. :)

So Croatia, probably religious reorganization too? Orthodox bishops and so on?

Bonus points if they keep the Glagolithic :D

Oh wow, a whole layer of history that completely slipped my mind. I guess not much of a reorganization is needed, since the Pope is out of Rome and I have a proper Greek Rite Patriarch there.

Speaking of which, that's a very interesting question I have to answer at some point, namely, what happens to Catholicism now that the See of Rome is Orthodox? Will they follow the Archbishop of Munich (where the Pope ran to) out of spite? Or will he slowly slip into irrelevance? Has anyone treated this in a plausible manner on these forums already that I can shamelessly rip off?

But that's for a later date. Now, Theodros' recovery of Carthage and succession shenangians.
 
There is a lot of depth here, it has been a fine read. Do you mind if I use some of it as inspiration, especially the reforms? Also the artwork where on earth are you finding it, I struggle to find decent, authentic, middle age work such as this, most what I come across is high fantasy.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9914/eusebios.jpg

Like that mosaic for instance!

Anyway thanks for the fine work, and I wasn't aware Croatia never had a king either, that is something to keep a note of, I think it adds variety anyway.
 
The recovery of Carthage.

By 1130, the Islamic kingdom of Ifriqiya has been on decline for nearly 150 years. Zirids, the local dynasty, lost any real power in Sicily and Numidia sometime around 1000 AD, and with the recovery of Sicily by Alexios, Ifriqiya lost any hope of ever restoring their control of the island. Intermittent wars with the Hammadids of Numidia were inconclusive and further weakened both states. In fact, soon after Theodoros’ recovery of Carthage the Hammadid state fell to the Republic of Genoa, who expanded their borders under the pretense of assisting the ongoing Hispanic Crusade.

In 1139, Theodoros faced a bit of a family problem. While he continued to confirm the head of the cadet branches of the Imperial house as Praetors of their themes, Armeniacon and Paphlagonia, many of the junior members of those houses could never hope to inherit the Praetorship or even attain any position on the staff of the Praetor. They thus gravitated to Constantinople in hopes of securing a post in the Imperial Bureaucracy there. Some succeeded; in fact, both the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Patriarch of Rome were usually members of the Imperial house from the days of Emperor Eusebios to the end of the Early Komnenian period. However, most were too incompetent to serve as even the least important of logothetes. None seemed to show imperial ambitions, however the situation could always change. Theodoros decided to act first. His solution was to attack the ailing Zirid realm. The superfluous relatives could be appointed commanders of various units of the army during the invasion, and either perish in the war or win themselves posts in the revived Exarchate of Carthage.

Never one to hesitate, Theodoros mobilized the armies of Dalmatia and Sicily and set sail for Carthage in May 1139. The Zirids were unable to muster much of a response, and by September, Africa was firmly in Imperial hands, and Hassan Ibn Azam Ibn Tammim Zirid fled to Fatimid Egypt. The Exarchate of Carthage was restored.

The Death of Theodoros and Imperial Succession.

Three sons of Theodoros survived into adulthood: Romanos, Isaakios and Manuel. Isaakios died in 1135, aged 21, under unclear circumstances. Romanos, Theodoros’ biographer, attributes the death to suicide, later sources suspect foul play by either Romanos or Theodoros himself. Of the other two sons, Theodoros groomed Romanos as his successor and Manuel as the future Patriarch of Constantinople, elevating Romanos to the rank of Kaisar in 1139, on the eve of the invasion of Ifriqiya. Romanos’ succession was further cemented in 1153, when Manuel, apparently stunned by the Croatian revolt and its suppression, started formulating a more egalitarian interpretation of the Church doctrine. Theodoros then distanced Manuel from the court and appointed Konstantinos Komnenos Paphlagonikos Patriarch of Constantinople when the old Patriarch died in 1156.

However, the aging Theodoros’ plans were shattered in 1158, when Kaisar Romanos suddenly died. According to Alexios’ succession laws, the only possible successor was Manuel. Theodoros would have none of it, as his theological disagreements with Manuel had grown to a full-blown feud by this time. Manuel was arrested by the Varangian Guard and sent as a monk to some remote monastery on Crete. Theodoros then elevated Demetrios, Romanos’ 31-year-old son to Kaisar, and within a month had the Senate elect him Basileus alongside himself. However, the grief over the loss of his chosen successor and favorite son sapped what little remained of the aging Emperor’s strength and he died in early 1159.
 
There is a lot of depth here, it has been a fine read. Do you mind if I use some of it as inspiration, especially the reforms? Also the artwork where on earth are you finding it, I struggle to find decent, authentic, middle age work such as this, most what I come across is high fantasy.

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9914/eusebios.jpg

Like that mosaic for instance!

Anyway thanks for the fine work, and I wasn't aware Croatia never had a king either, that is something to keep a note of, I think it adds variety anyway.

Wow, thanks a lot! And you're welcome to use anything as inspiration, I'm just glad someone sees my silly ideas as plausible. As for the art, I just type things like "Byzantine Emperor" into Google and Bing. No hobbits ever went to Constantinople, so most of the results are genuine art from the times. And Croatia did have a king briefly, I'm just joking around with the Byzantine attitude of rarely acknowledging anyone besides the Emperor as a legitimate foreign ruler.
 
Almost rebuilt the Empire of Justinian. Just a short war in Spain away from all that former glory :D.
 
"More egalitarian" - Western Rite?

Well, that might come up later again, I don't know.

RE:pope - in an age where the rite was often more important than the doctrine to most peasants, the Latins may have sway still, even if the Patriarch is in Munchen. But that really depends on what the Emperors do.

Carthage - I approve. Mind that Carthage is a little apart from medieval Tunis, so it's your choice whether to rebuild it or rename Tunis in your story.
 
Wow, thanks a lot! And you're welcome to use anything as inspiration, I'm just glad someone sees my silly ideas as plausible.

Very much so! I loved the thread, and if I am brutally honest, my own knowledge of the region (beyond the obvious) is very badly lacking, so I am lapping all the ideas up.

As for the art, I just type things like "Byzantine Emperor" into Google and Bing. No hobbits ever went to Constantinople, so most of the results are genuine art from the times.

Hmm I think specific is the key isn't it. General terms, when not a mainstream phrase, these days are so polluted, often it is an exercise in futility using normal search methods, so much so in fact I have gone back to using 3 search engines again.

And Croatia did have a king briefly, I'm just joking around with the Byzantine attitude of rarely acknowledging anyone besides the Emperor as a legitimate foreign ruler.

Ah fair enough :) thanks for clearing that up!
 
Last edited:
Liquidate the weaklings.

That's what I tend to do, any foreign Duke bordering the Empire foolish enough to rebel soon finds himself in a dungeon in Constantinople :)

Almost rebuilt the Empire of Justinian. Just a short war in Spain away from all that former glory :D.

War in Spain? You read my mind.

"More egalitarian" - Western Rite?

Well, that might come up later again, I don't know.

I was thinking something like the Cathars. I'm not too well versed on various heresies to treat this in any detail, but I might come back to it if I brush my knowledge up.


RE:pope - in an age where the rite was often more important than the doctrine to most peasants, the Latins may have sway still, even if the Patriarch is in Munchen. But that really depends on what the Emperors do.

Thanks for the info! I'm still conflicted as to what I want to do early in EU3. I'll either go pagan if I can justify temples to Jupiter Optimus Maximus popping up in the 17th century, or I will fulfill that old dream of Justinian and unify the Church. Shouldn't be too hard without those pesky Monophysites.

Very much so! I loved the thread, and if I am brutally honest, my own knowledge of the region (beyond the obvious) is very badly lacking, so I am lapping all the ideas up.

Mine isn't great either. Early updates took several hours of internet research and about an hour of writing. It's easier now that every real historical charachter has died and my own reforms have changed the Empire.


And now, the update. Time to live up to the title of the game.
 
Demetrios I, 1159 – 1181

Emperor Demetrios and the Second Crusade.

The ascension of Demetrios I is somewhat of a landmark in both Imperial and barbarian history. The restoration of the Empire as the dominant political and military power in Europe is complete by this time, and the pace of Imperial reconquests slows down considerably. Demetrios and most of his successors (with the notable exception of Emperor Kosmas’ Mesopotamian adventure, and St. Zeno’s conflicts with the Eastern Frankish Empire) focus on consolidation and administration with wars both few and short.

Barbarian Europe is a stark contrast to this. The Carolingian Empire collapses almost completely, with both the Western Frankish Kingdom and the Eastern Frankish Empire mere shadows of their former selves. Warfare and raiding once more become endemic, with a strong barbarian king able to assemble most of his patrimony only for his son to lose most of it to rebellions upon succession. There are, of course, exceptions. The Republic of Genoa, seeing the success of the Imperial recovery of Carthage, embarked on a series of conquests in Numidia, using the Second Crusade as a pretext for the eventual annexation of all the lands between the Pillars of Hercules and the Exarchate of Carthage. The Norse Kingdoms of Sweden and Denmark remained centralized and expanded, with Sweden taking Norway and Denmark conquering the pagans in Finland. The Kingdom of St. Stephen managed to avoid the instability of Frankish Europe and conquered the Pechenegs in the period between 1130 and 1160. The Princes of the Rus grew rich through their trade with Constantinople, and managed to expand their realms far and wide, from Karelia to the Urals and the Caucasus. However, none proved powerful enough to be able to subdue others, as the richest, Kiev, had to endure a long series of wars with Poland and Hungary. Lastly, some of the Norse adventurers, inspired by the First Crusade, and doubtless prompted by tales of their countrymen returning from the Varangian Guard, declared their desire to liberate the Holy lands from the Turkish and Arabic infidels. In this, they were largely successful, as the Turks were weaker than ever, and more preoccupied with trying to subdue the Emir of Mosul and several of his rebellious peers.

In Hispania however, the First Crusade was a disaster. Burgas was not recovered, and the remnant of the Spanish March was lost. The Moors then proceeded to advance north, taking all of Aquitania and the old Province of Transalpine Gaul. The armies of the Christians were in disarray, with the Franks dispersed and demoralized and those from farther away abandoning the Crusade and returning to their own realms. At this point, the ascension of Demetrios seemed like a gift from God to the Princes of the Franks and the Archbishop in Munich. They knew Emperor Theodoros was no friend of theirs, and would likely have used any plea for intervention as an excuse to dispossess both sides of the conflict of their holdings. Now Theodoros was dead, and the new Emperor in Constantinople might have proven to be more amiable. At any rate, he had the only army at the time capable of stopping the Moorish advance. In 1160, the King of the Western Franks, the Emperor of the Eastern Franks and the “Holy and Apostolic” Archbishop of Munich sent an embassy to Constantinople asking the Emperor to defend his spiritual brothers. Demetrios agreed.

73421920.jpg


Demetrios I receiving Frankish envoys
 
Last edited: