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Aren't you afraid to get cut off by some lonely Siberian troops?
 
not to spoil the fun here or to diminsh the reputation of our finnish neighbours, but isnt it completly unrealistic that finnland at this time could march on moscow?

I mean come on, its a loong way from home, and if the areas which the germans occupied are anything to judge by, the way from finnland to moscow would full of partisans, and does the finnish army have enough manpower to supress this? i think not, but imay be wrong.

I also have to say im a little dissapointed with the soviet ai, that he prioritises an attack on romania instead of the recapture of an heart region like leningrad, and that he doesent sends more troops to defend and turn back the finns from moscow.

other then that, a great aar which i enjoy reading:)

From what I have seen, early into "The Great Patriotic War" civilians in the Ukraine, Caucasus, and other areas owned by Moscow but not exactly Russian supported occupation until the Nazi's started committing atrocities against them. Not to mention the North isn't exactly heavily populated with the exception of Leningrad and Moscow until you get down to Smolensk and places like that. He kinda bypassed all that. I don't know if the partisan system still just applies a national level of activity or does on a province by province basis. Can you answer that Singleton?
 
I wonder how Mosby's drive on Moscow is affecting the USSR's fight with Germany and the balkan nations. If you could do a chapter on the fighting further west during November that would be great. If Mosby can't capture Moscow (which seems to be the case) then in order to win he has to cause enough panic to cause divisions further west to withdraw which would facilitate a German Blitzkrieg. Also if we could see November OOB's that would be nice.
 
Sorry, but you're a sad victim of wartime propaganda. I don't think that 163rd and 44th division even had 30 000 men combined. Majority of both of these divisions managed to withdraw (althoug they lost all their (heavy) equipment and they suffered heavy losses) from the pockets of Suomussalmi and Raate. I don't think that the number of Soviet losses reaches even 10 000 but it is close to that.

Ooh, another one of those Communists, are you? Sorry mate, but the days of the "Työväen vallankumous" are way over. ;)

Indeed, while Wiki usually downplays Soviet casualties, even it says, whilst giving out multiple sources, that the Soviets lost 27,500-30 000 men during the Battle of Suomussalmi. Not to mention dozens of history books and hundreds of historians well read on the matter with concur with me. I'm also sure that the still alive veterans who had to bury the tens of thousands of Soviet soldiers left to rot on Finnish soil by their own corrupted government (who at the time acknowledge only 350 Soviet casualties at Suomussalmi - ridiculous) after the war, will agree that their casualties at Suomussalmi were approximately 30 000.

And to someone's post about the massive casualties being simply a matter of lack of organization and other less-direct conditions: No. We Finns excelled and still excel at winter warfare. We used "motti" tactics to succesfully encircle, pocket and destroy the enemy by shooting and starving them to death from all sides. And not only winter warfare. We did the same to the Russians during the summer too. The result was always the same: small or at least a lot less casualties compared to the horrendous amount of casualties on the Soviet, and later unfortunately on the German side (whom ignited the Lapland War by launching Operation Tanne Ost) as well.

About the violating the Geneva convention/treaty (whatever it's called): We might've shot a few kitchens, but that's nothing compared to the thousands of crimes the Soviets did, starting with normal line infantry raping and pillaging their way through everything they conquered, going through illegal use of explosive bullets and other arms internationally banned in warfare, all the way to population transfers, mass-executions and genocides of minorities (see Holodomor for a good example). Oh and we actually fed the Soviets in the so called "sausage war", causing them run for the food and abandon their posts and weapons (lol). Not to mention treating them well in captivity.

Blue Emu: Alright, this BETA may be a couple or few months old, but AFAIK the game was already game- and event-wise quite finished back then. But of course, I'll find out for sure in August. Only then do I have the right to criticize thoroughly.

On-topic: Keep it up and drive them back to beyond the Urals, where they belong.
 
Fulmen said:

Woah, that's alot of patriotism right there. Either that or indoctrination. I get a North Korean vibe over the whole thing.
 
Woah, that's alot of patriotism right there. Either that or indoctrination. I get a North Korean vibe over the whole thing.

If you want to call historical facts patriotism, then so be it. Not denying that I'm not a nationalist, of course.

Though I don't see where the North Korean and Communist way of twisting history and reality part comes in..but maybe that's just me. ;)
 
Indeed, while Wiki usually downplays Soviet casualties, even it says, whilst giving out multiple sources, that the Soviets lost 27,500-30 000 men during the Battle of Suomussalmi.

Did you even read the wiki?

"13,000-27,500 killed or missing"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Suomussalmi

Only one source for Soviet casualties too.

Sorry for derailing, this is the Barbarossa AAR thread, not the history forum.
 
Did you even read the wiki?

"13,000-27,500 killed or missing"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Suomussalmi

Only one source for Soviet casualties too.

Sorry for derailing, this is the Barbarossa AAR thread, not the history forum.

Interesting. It's been updated with bollocks since the last time I looked at it. This needs correcting.

EDIT: The Finnish Wiki says

Finnish casualties - 350 dead, 600 wounded

Soviet casualties - 27,500 dead or wounded.

But anyway, let's try and keep it to the AAR then.
 
EDIT: The Finnish Wiki says

Finnish casualties - 350 dead, 600 wounded

Soviet casualties - 27,500 dead or wounded.

Russian Wiki says:
Finnish casualties: 350-900 dead, 600-1770 wounded
Soviet casualties: 13.000-23.000 dead/wounded

Anyway, comparing casualties is a very amateurish way to analyze battles. People who don't know much about military should be careful (including me).
Check out the English Wiki, there's quite a good analysis.

Btw, post #1646 = nationalist crap
 
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If you want to call historical facts patriotism, then so be it.
I call your "historical facts" off-topic. Do it somewhere else.

Not denying that I'm not a nationalist, of course.
This is not the proper Forum, or the proper thread, for a nationalistic pissing-contest. Last warning. Get back on topic.
 
Thanks for the AAR. Can Singleton Mosby comment on how the AI from this build compares to the AI on the RTM build? I'm a bit concerned about the inability of the Soviet AI to assess strategic priorities which seems to be affecting the efficiency of its defense.

And yes, if the game was completely historical the Finnish AI should be restricted from proceeding south of the Sivr river, east of Lake Onega or entering Leningrad. Those were the theatre limits the Finnish High Command stipulated to the Germans when Finland entered the war. Of course one probably needs to grant PI some leeway here to model variances from the historical in the game. But I hope that also means there is a chance that Finland would have even more limiting war restrictions than historical if they have a chance to have less restrictions than historical.
 
I guess, what we see here is the new AI in Action.

The CCCP AI has probably the order: "hold moscow"(and I guess it will be difficult for mosby to take moscow)
And the "hold leningrad" theatre had just not enough forces assigned to it.


I hope the AI wont be such a desaster in the game I am about to pre-order.
 
And yes, if the game was completely historical the Finnish AI should be restricted from proceeding south of the Sivr river, east of Lake Onega or entering Leningrad. Those were the theatre limits the Finnish High Command stipulated to the Germans when Finland entered the war. Of course one probably needs to grant PI some leeway here to model variances from the historical in the game. But I hope that also means there is a chance that Finland would have even more limiting war restrictions than historical if they have a chance to have less restrictions than historical.

It's best to let the AIs do its operational min/maxing and decide it on the spot. If the Soviet Union in real life left Leningrad completely undefended, and the Finns were the only ones in the position to take it, they would. Any argument to the contrary would run afoul of fundamentals of human behavior.
 
Thanks for the AAR. Can Singleton Mosby comment on how the AI from this build compares to the AI on the RTM build? I'm a bit concerned about the inability of the Soviet AI to assess strategic priorities which seems to be affecting the efficiency of its defense.

And yes, if the game was completely historical the Finnish AI should be restricted from proceeding south of the Sivr river, east of Lake Onega or entering Leningrad. Those were the theatre limits the Finnish High Command stipulated to the Germans when Finland entered the war. Of course one probably needs to grant PI some leeway here to model variances from the historical in the game. But I hope that also means there is a chance that Finland would have even more limiting war restrictions than historical if they have a chance to have less restrictions than historical.
Well How the war progresses shouldent be historical at all-why would you want restrictions on this type of thing-if the game were compleatly historical, than UK would not be able to command its own forces beyond 42 and you shouldent be able to release the Panzers immedietly on D-day. also the idea of making the soviets not have to worry about the finns taking lenningrad is abit dumb---oh and Germany always has to lose in historical
 
From what I have seen, early into "The Great Patriotic War" civilians in the Ukraine, Caucasus, and other areas owned by Moscow but not exactly Russian supported occupation until the Nazi's started committing atrocities against them. Not to mention the North isn't exactly heavily populated with the exception of Leningrad and Moscow until you get down to Smolensk and places like that. He kinda bypassed all that. I don't know if the partisan system still just applies a national level of activity or does on a province by province basis. Can you answer that Singleton?

The Ukraine and other areas had been oppressed by the Soviets in horrific ways. This was never represented in HoI 2 very well. Why does the Soviet Union get cores on the Ukraine and why cant the Ukraine have more dissent against the SU even if it has cores?

For that matter why should China get cores on Tibet. Because they invaded after their civil war. If the Soviets would have won in Afghanistan in the 1980's would they have had cores on Afghanistan in WW2.
 
The Ukraine and other areas had been oppressed by the Soviets in horrific ways. This was never represented in HoI 2 very well. Why does the Soviet Union get cores on the Ukraine and why cant the Ukraine have more dissent against the SU even if it has cores?

This could possibly be modded through the occupation policies with government-in-exile in Germany, but would need some events which lets you choose, if you grant them independence or just choose your own occupation policy for them.
 
Chapter Fourteen: the miracle in the East

Prospects had been grim just two months into Barabrossa. When Romania surrendered many were shocked. But the writing was on the wall, the German forces had withstood the Soviet battering, the offensives had been held and now it was ‘payback time’. On December 5th Riga fell to German forces were Rommel had been defeated in July and August the Communist soldiers now ate dust, or actually snow. More to the south Bulgaria was fighting for survival and the fledgling state of Croatia was overrun. But the Hungarians had been able to hold the enemy in check. They had fought valiantly!​

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