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A BETA-preview Barbarossa AAR

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Ex Mudder said:
Wasn't there a discussion of SP Art not being available in this build? And now we see that the Axis and Russia lack Art regiments in 1941?

Can you check to see if there are any Arty brigades anywhere in this build? In 1941, the US should have a few.

Could explain why the OOB seems incomplete, if this build didn't include artillery.

And on another note, given your lack of officers, wouldn't it make sense to avoid building new divisions? And devote all your IC to upgrading / reinforcing / supplying what you have?

As for the OOB, perhaps more divisions should be considered reserves at the scenario start?
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It's pointless to double guess why - and where are you getting it from that SP ART was ever "unavailable"?

The real and only reason is that it's Paradox and everything gets done at the last minute. There is probably going be a couple pages worth of OOB fixes in the first patch alone, if history is any guide.
 
Journier said:
sounds like most battles the russians had with the germans.

Ive also heard many stories of the Germans only getting overrun once they ran out of supplies meaning ammo. The Germans were good at moving out and letting the russians take an area after they bled themselves out on it.
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It depended who was the commander. The really good defensive tacticians would do so, but the bad ones like Himmler would just get mauled by artillery.
 
Baneslave said:
AFAIK, it had something to do with the fact that SP artillery tech allowed building of TD's. So it was a bug.
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That's quite different from it being unavailable as a game object for OOB design, which is the implicit claim made here.
 
Cpack said:
@ Singleton Mosby

Concerning Infra and Suppy and "stacking penalty"

-Afaik, there're no limitation of numbers of divisions per province, but the supply, Org or strength is limited by Infra or some kind, is this right?

-Have you seen some restrictions or penalties to your troops, if you have some 10+ Divisions in a rough terrain province, like dropping supplies or Org or strength?
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Sorry for asking this again, but I find it really important what kind of "limitations" are made to prevent the "Überstack" promblem.
Could also be important for fleets.
 
Cpack said:
Sorry for asking this again, but I find it really important what kind of "limitations" are made to prevent the "Überstack" promblem.
Could also be important for fleets.
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There is supply limits, as infrastructure cannot handle billion units, then there is frontage that limits how many divisions can actually fight in battle and then there is stacking penalty of somekind.
 
Baneslave said:
There is supply limits, as infrastructure cannot handle billion units, then there is frontage that limits how many divisions can actually fight in battle and then there is stacking penalty of somekind.
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This.

Plus manpower and cost of consumer goods are now said to effectively create a cap on the total number of units. Together with the larger map and the thousands of provinces, superstacks will probably not be very viable as tactical solutions to anything.
 
What about big city sieges though? Thinking of Singleton's defence of Riga: - I couldn't see how many there were there but for somehere like Moscow with excellent infrastructure and supply it would be worth superstacking as after fighting through the suburbs the Germans wouldn't be able to beat it even with the overstacking penalties given the shot up infrastructure and long supply lines.

The excess divisions over the frontage would simply be there as reserves coming up to the front . . . Or have I got it all confused?
 
Cpack said:
Sorry for asking this again, but I find it really important what kind of "limitations" are made to prevent the "Überstack" promblem.
Could also be important for fleets.
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Go ahead, stack 50 divisions in that province. I'll give them a wide berth as I watch them starve. Frontage will keep more than 3-4 of them from engaging at a time on offense as well. Plus, imagine the embarrassment of getting that encircled!:rofl:

The island moonstack is definitely gone. The level 1 port on StrategicallyUnimportantRock will barely keep a division in supply (if that even), let alone the 100+ stacks from the HOI2 Pacific War. Even high-end bases like Rabaul or Hawaii have a weak point: convoy interception.

Grenville Coney said:
What about big city sieges though? Thinking of Singleton's defence of Riga: - I couldn't see how many there were there but for somehere like Moscow with excellent infrastructure and supply it would be worth superstacking as after fighting through the suburbs the Germans wouldn't be able to beat it even with the overstacking penalties given the shot up infrastructure and long supply lines.

The excess divisions over the frontage would simply be there as reserves coming up to the front . . . Or have I got it all confused?
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You've got it right, but you've missed one problem: if the siege is impossible, the player will avoid it. They'll go around it, encircle, dig in and wait. Then the real fun begins.
 
I really hope the ai is better in the store version of the game.Cause from what i`ve seen only Germany has tanks and in real even Finland and Bulgaria(not to mention Hungary which actually produced) had at least 200-300 modern tanks which is about 1 tank division and several motorized brigades.
 
Rommel22 said:
I want this game even more now. It reminds of Operational Art of War game series, the counters in HOI3 are quite nice.

Have you tried a hands off game to see what the AI would do?
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It most certainly can be compared to TOAW in size. That game has some additional depth in certain fields but I now prefer HOI3 for many reasons.

Sangeli said:
I know what you mean. The really funny thing is that despite the enormous amount of artillery, the initial barrage was a total failure becuase the Germans retreated from their trenches but returned when it was over and beat off the first wave of attackers.
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Another 'mistake' of the Soviets was to create some 'daylight' with hundreds of searchlights to illuminate the German positions. Instead of giving the Soviet soldiers a good view of their enemy they themselves were silhoueted giving the Germans splendid targets......:eek:

Cidal said:
Did we ever tell you how much we love you Mosby?
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Eh no, please continue :D

patriot1 said:
I really hope the ai is better in the store version of the game.Cause from what i`ve seen only Germany has tanks and in real even Finland and Bulgaria(not to mention Hungary which actually produced) had at least 200-300 modern tanks which is about 1 tank division and several motorized brigades.
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The AI is already very good or else it wouldn't have beaten me as Germany. You are talking about the scenario setup however. Guess they will be tweaked as the scenario is near to useless atm.

Ok, after this little interlude we will continue with the AAR.
 
patriot1 said:
I really hope the ai is better in the store version of the game.Cause from what i`ve seen only Germany has tanks and in real even Finland and Bulgaria(not to mention Hungary which actually produced) had at least 200-300 modern tanks which is about 1 tank division and several motorized brigades.
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Those OOBs' are heavily under work, so I wouldn't think them too much.
 

Chapter twelve: Carnage on the Central Front, part II​

Everything was now set on getting the troops out of their exposed position. All of a sudden the enemy had Blitzed forward taking 50 km’s in a short period. This move left two armies in shambles, some of their units down to 50% of their initial fighting force. Here it was the 21st and 1st infantry corps’s, the 6th cavalry corps and parts of the 6th and 13th Mechanized were in danger of being encircled. Even though the later two had suffered over 25% of casualties they would make up the main part of the relieve force when things would turn out bad later on.​

2yyxxz4.jpg

Small scale counterattacks, even when successful could not prevent the ongoing trend of defeats in the central sector. Eventually the battle of Radan, although a small fight in comparison, would start the disaster, which was about to happen.
​
2cegsj7.jpg

This had not been the first fight fought at Radun, the province had been fought over for almost a week and after our initial defensive force had been thrown out we had paid the German spearhead in kind. Now the fight was over and shattered the defenders withdrew east.
Leaving the third and tenth army behind in peril.​

2sbom7d.jpg


11ajwk0.jpg

Having lost the vital province, nothing stood in the path of the Germans but the broken and retreating remains of the 3rd and 10th army. The first attack of the enemy was a bit opportunistic but before long the pocket would be closed.
​
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patriot1 said:
I really hope the ai is better in the store version of the game.Cause from what i`ve seen only Germany has tanks and in real even Finland and Bulgaria(not to mention Hungary which actually produced) had at least 200-300 modern tanks which is about 1 tank division and several motorized brigades.
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In this case it's not a question about the AI, it's about the scenario setup. Neither the AI nor the player can change much of their army composition within a few weeks of gameplay.
 
G'Kar said:
In this case it's not a question about the AI, it's about the scenario setup. Neither the AI nor the player can change much of their army composition within a few weeks of gameplay.
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Yes but in Doomsday ai file you programmed the ai what to do(produce),or am i wrong?;)
 
One ray of hope for the Russians on the central front is that all those German Armored Divisions seem to be headed towards the low-Infrastructure Pripyat area. This should limit their ability to exploit their success, and give you time to recover.

patriot1 said:
Yes but in Doomsday ai file you programmed the ai what to do(produce),or am i wrong?;)
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The AI hasn't had time to build ANYTHING yet... this is the 1941 scenario, not the 1936 campaign. The force pool is (basically) historical... not in any way dependant on the AI build-schema.
 
blue emu said:
One ray of hope for the Russians on the central front is that all those German Armored Divisions seem to be headed towards the low-Infrastructure Pripyat area. This should limit their ability to exploit their success, and give you time to recover.
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However, apparently the Pripyat are not marshes (!) in this build. Though infra could still be low...
 
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