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Thread: A BETA-preview Barbarossa AAR

  1. #721
    Human Enewald's Avatar
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    Germany has far too few brigades!
    Someone help them!

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    Germany has far too few brigades!
    Someone help them!
    They obviously need more tank destroyers...




  3. #723
    Thats second generation right there.

  4. #724
    Sergeant abj9562's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendriks View Post
    You are not calculating in the reserves.
    The OKH Reserves of 28 divisions are listed in the spreadsheet. What is not included are foreign divisions. Finland etc...

    However Dr. Niehorster (spreadsaheet source) is a far better expert than I ever expect to be. He is responsible for digging up more OOB information of WWII than anyone else I can think of. He has spent a lifetime and an entire Doctoral career in this area. The information comes from documents far better than the average joe like me will ever get to see or read.

    However and regardless of the historical data, the game needs to be balanced a bit more. As this is a beta two months old I anxiously await the release.

  5. #725
    Lt. General Sangeli's Avatar
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    I wonder if Finland had declared war in this AAR what would change? What Mosby should have done, becuase it is only proper, is on June 25th declare war on Finland. IMO it is still not to late as long as the German army is advancing so he should delcare war now!

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by Alojzy View Post
    They obviously need more tank destroyers...
    That must be the tank destroyer battalion of the Blue division (Spanish volunteers)

  7. #727
    Gensui-kakka Väinö I's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    Germany has far too few brigades!
    Someone help them!
    That's nothing compared to Japan, who is supposed to invade various locales in SE Asia with 400.000 troops (mainly in 11 division, half a dozen brigade types, plus extras) within half a year. They currently have some 650.000.

    At least they have the best heavy artillery arm in the known world. And the only heavy artillery arm in the world at that. Must be all those half a decade old Krupp siege guns.

  8. #728
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    Did we ever tell you how much we love you Mosby?
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  9. #729
    Lt. General Sangeli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Väinö I View Post
    That's nothing compared to Japan, who is supposed to invade various locales in SE Asia with 400.000 troops (mainly in 11 division, half a dozen brigade types, plus extras) within half a year. They currently have some 650.000.

    At least they have the best heavy artillery arm in the known world. And the only heavy artillery arm in the world at that. Must be all those half a decade old Krupp siege guns.
    Except they had not artillery brigades at all...look at the OOB.

  10. #730
    Sergeant abj9562's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangeli View Post
    Except they had not artillery brigades at all...look at the OOB.
    They (Japanese) had no artillery brigades although they did have a few scattered artillery regiments. But not enough to really speak of.

  11. #731
    Field Marshal Ex Mudder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singleton Mosby View Post
    Here is an overview of German forces:

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Wasn't there a discussion of SP Art not being available in this build? And now we see that the Axis and Russia lack Art regiments in 1941?

    Can you check to see if there are any Arty brigades anywhere in this build? In 1941, the US should have a few.

    Could explain why the OOB seems incomplete, if this build didn't include artillery.

    And on another note, given your lack of officers, wouldn't it make sense to avoid building new divisions? And devote all your IC to upgrading / reinforcing / supplying what you have?

    As for the OOB, perhaps more divisions should be considered reserves at the scenario start?
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  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by Ex Mudder View Post
    And on another note, given your lack of officers, wouldn't it make sense to avoid building new divisions? And devote all your IC to upgrading / reinforcing / supplying what you have?
    Here's my thoughts:

    * I don't know if IC is limiting upgrades/reinforcements/supplies, he may have more than enough to cover these basic needs

    * Soviets have massive manpower and IC, but likely don't have massive leadership pools (less educated workforce than let's say France/Germany), so, it makes sense to exploit your advantage and let your leadership serve other purposes (intell, research in particular).

    * The officers will not likely contribute more than dozens more divisions to fill in the plugs unless your divisions are so low on quality officers that they're shattering



    To me, it seems as though the Soviet leadership is too high to begin with and there should be significant difficulties in preventing shattering early in Barbarossa and then getting stabilized after.


    Just my 2c

  13. #733
    Gensui-kakka Väinö I's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abj9562 View Post
    They (Japanese) had no artillery brigades although they did have a few scattered artillery regiments. But not enough to really speak of.
    Those 14 brigades don't sound excessive for army level heavy artillery, assuming that one brigade = 50 guns or so. Majority would have been in Manchuria.

    A version of beta where it is the only major that has gotten it's artillery formations in game will undoubtably be the only version where Japan can bask with it's supramacy in artillery. I wonder how many Soviets will have in the later scenarios in the release version? Hundreds, most likely.
    Last edited by Väinö I; 16-07-2009 at 01:36.

  14. #734
    The reason why i think they gave the ussr many divisions is that % wise most ppl will play germany and paradox thought maybe to beef up the soviets to give the human player a challenge. What for me atm the #1 question, if playing same scenario but as nazi germany how would the impression be after 2 months of gameplay. Tbh all this talk about 2/4 brigades etc. is a waste of time without more data.

  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by Väinö I View Post
    Those 14 brigades don't sound excessive for army level heavy artillery, assuming that one brigade = 50 guns or so. Majority would have been in Manchuria.

    A version of beta where it is the only major that has gotten it's artillery formations in game will undoubtably be the only version where Japan can bask with it's supramacy in artillery. I wonder how many Soviets will have in the later scenarios in the release version? Hundreds, most likely.
    Yeah, the Russians had stupendous amounts of artillery.

    Even the allies at El Alamein had something like 900 pieces of artillery for the opening barrage (operation Lightfoot), unless my memory is messing up on me.

    Thats 18 brigades if you want to put 50 guns per brigade, hehe

  16. #736
    What does this mean?! Rommel22's Avatar
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    Thanks Mosby for this preview AAR, it has been very eye opening. I want this game even more now. It reminds of Operational Art of War game series, the counters in HOI3 are quite nice.

    Have you tried a hands off game to see what the AI would do?
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  17. #737
    Lt. General Sangeli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlacidDragon View Post
    Yeah, the Russians had stupendous amounts of artillery.

    Even the allies at El Alamein had something like 900 pieces of artillery for the opening barrage (operation Lightfoot), unless my memory is messing up on me.

    Thats 18 brigades if you want to put 50 guns per brigade, hehe
    900 pieces is nothing. In the battle of Seelow Heights the Soviets had almost 17,000; about 1 piece for ever 12 German soldiers.

  18. #738
    GroFAZ Demi Moderator blue emu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangeli View Post
    900 pieces is nothing. In the battle of Seelow Heights the Soviets had almost 17,000; about 1 piece for ever 12 German soldiers.
    That gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "a shell with your name on it".
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  19. #739
    Lt. General Sangeli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue emu View Post
    That gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "a shell with your name on it".
    I know what you mean. The really funny thing is that despite the enormous amount of artillery, the initial barrage was a total failure becuase the Germans retreated from their trenches but returned when it was over and beat off the first wave of attackers.

  20. #740
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangeli View Post
    I know what you mean. The really funny thing is that despite the enormous amount of artillery, the initial barrage was a total failure becuase the Germans retreated from their trenches but returned when it was over and beat off the first wave of attackers.
    sounds like most battles the russians had with the germans.

    Ive also heard many stories of the Germans only getting overrun once they ran out of supplies meaning ammo. The Germans were good at moving out and letting the russians take an area after they bled themselves out on it.

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