A BETA-preview Barbarossa AAR

**zeekater** · 13-07-2009 00:45

Originally Posted by Ärjylä

Agreed. Hanko should have the capacity to supply at least 15-25 000 men (or maybe to put it easier - 6/8 brigades), as 15 000 was roughly the amount of personnel that was evacuated from there in late 1941 (though, total amount may have been as high as 25k). It wasn't the lack of port facilities which caused the withdrawal to my knowledge, but rather strategic things (such as inability to supply the base due to the loss of estonia).

The same point could be made for almost all provinces, no?

So IMO provinces without ports should still be able to receive supplies (but not send resources in the other direction) but only enough to support like 6 brigades and with a terrible efficiency. And only be able to support those brigades for sitting there, not enough for attacking.

**Sparrow** · 13-07-2009 00:47

USSR wanted Hanko as a naval base so should it not be setup with a naval base? Or am I missing something?

**LeeDub** · 13-07-2009 01:22

Originally Posted by zeekater

There are no more 'small ports' alla HoI2, and in the screenshot the province doesn't have a port, and a port is required to bring supplies/oil (as said by the devs*). So the Soviets can't place divisions in Hanko, unless they do it less then a few weeks before attacking Finland.

*Also evidenced by the devs giving Corsica a port, which it didn't have in HoI2, there it only had one of those small ports which aren't in HoI3 anymore.

I meant "small port" as in, levels 1-3 naval base.

**von_Ysselstein** · 13-07-2009 04:56

Originally Posted by Porkman

74 is a little much... the Germans only had 16 panzer divisions in 1941.

You might want to check this number. The table of Organisation for the German Army clearly shows 20 Panzer-Divisionen plus one light (armored) Div in June 41, more precisely one PzDiv + one Light Div in Africa, seventeen PzDivs beeing committed to the russian theater, one refreshing in Germany + one occupation duty in Greece

**Alexander Seil** · 13-07-2009 05:19

Originally Posted by Baneslave

While I agree with you, I think that it is bit hard to represent. Paradox would have to make really small province for representing this, thus giving a reason for everybody else to complain about missing military bases around the world. I honestly think, that it would be better to leave Hanko unrepresented.

Same here, I think Hanko should be axed, otherwise it's a Pandora's box of everyone's random little concessions around the world that you're opening.

It also messes up the aesthetics of the map far beyond than what Italian Zara does - at least it looks believeable. Hanko was tiny, tiny place and definitely shouldn't be a bridgehead to strike into the depths of Finland!

**Alexander Seil** · 13-07-2009 05:30

Originally Posted by Registered

1. Paradox have already said that there will be no changes made to the map (apart from names, which can be easily changed.)

Don't spread misinformation please.

There were plenty map changes over the last several months, at least with respect to the most visible part - political borders.

**Baneslave** · 13-07-2009 06:45

Originally Posted by Alexander Seil

There were plenty map changes over the last several months, at least with respect to the most visible part - political borders.

This. Paradox stated that they aren't going to listen anymore complains about the map, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't fix issues as they find them.

**Van Diemen** · 13-07-2009 07:26

Originally Posted by von_Ysselstein

You might want to check this number. The table of Organisation for the German Army clearly shows 20 Panzer-Divisionen plus one light (armored) Div in June 41, more precisely one PzDiv + one Light Div in Africa, seventeen PzDivs beeing committed to the russian theater, one refreshing in Germany + one occupation duty in Greece

Yes, and they made them so "numerous" by reshuffling them to weaker formations with only 3 brigades and/or adding more motorised infantry. The total amount of panzers was about the same. That something that we can do with HoI3 as well!

**Katolik** · 13-07-2009 07:40

Originally Posted by alexander seil

same here, i think hanko should be axed, otherwise it's a pandora's box of everyone's random little concessions around the world that you're opening.

It also messes up the aesthetics of the map far beyond than what italian zara does - at least it looks believeable. Hanko was tiny, tiny place and definitely shouldn't be a bridgehead to strike into the depths of finland!

+1

**I-15** · 13-07-2009 08:30

Originally Posted by Van Diemen

Yes, and they made them so "numerous" by reshuffling them to weaker formations with only 3 brigades and/or adding more motorised infantry. The total amount of panzers was about the same. That something that we can do with HoI3 as well!

I believe a '41 Panzer division had 1 Panzer Regiment of 2 Battalions and a regiment of motorized infantry of 3 battalions, plus supporting troops.

Before that i believe they had a battalion or 2 more tanks.
I don't know how much in brigades this is as the Germans didn't do it in Brigades only the British/Commonwealth Countries did.

I would still like to know how the Lend Lease works.

**Sparrow** · 13-07-2009 08:32

Speaking of lend lease I'd be curious if the Soviet player received material from the British as well.

**I-15** · 13-07-2009 08:55

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Speaking of lend lease I'd be curious if the Soviet player received material from the British as well.

Considering 'historically' the British didn't have enough of their own resources, i don't think they will.
Maybe if its something different to just resources.

**Alojzy** · 13-07-2009 08:58

Originally Posted by I-15

Considering 'historically' the British didn't have enough of their own resources, i don't think they will.
Maybe if its something different to just resources.

Until middle-late 1942, most of LL to Soviet Union was coming from UK. There is a reason why good part of the Leningrad Front was usuing Hurricanes and why Matildas were used in Moscow Counteroffensive.

**Singleton Mosby** · 13-07-2009 09:42

Originally Posted by I-15

I would still like to know how the Lend Lease works.

It doesn't really work yet I suppose. I got +5 relations with the US.

Originally Posted by Alojzy

Until middle-late 1942, most of LL to Soviet Union was coming from UK. There is a reason why good part of the Leningrad Front was usuing Hurricanes and why Matildas were used in Moscow Counteroffensive.

And yet again a reason why the American "We won your war" people should shut up.

**wright1331** · 13-07-2009 09:44

Originally Posted by Singleton Mosby

And yet again a reason why the American "We won your war" people should shut up.

Someone sounds a bit testy....

Interested to see if taking any SU territory would mean less LL help

**Haarken** · 13-07-2009 09:46

@Singleton Mosby: Just wanted to say thanks for posting that brilliant three part preview and what seems to be the beginnings of wonderful yet painfully teasing AAR. I really can't wait for the next installment.

Haarken

**Singleton Mosby** · 13-07-2009 09:58

Chapter five: Fall back on the Stalin line

A front wide reshuffle is in order as my unengaged forces try to find their positions as fast as possible. In the south I am lucky as the Germans don’t attack in full force and I can extract a good part of my troops to the main line of defence. You can see the void north-west of Odessa, in the marshes and south of Riga. The last one is filled in pretty quickly. The marshes will have to slow down the Germans all by themselves and I am preparing for a limited counter-attack on the Odessa front.

The extraction battles get worse and worse as I try to move my troops away from the blitzkrieg as fast as possible. The main plan is not to get them surrounded and at the same time hamper the German assault for as long as possible. Both tasks aren’t easy when your enemy is faster then you.

North of Brest-Litovsk, near Varana, on the border, a counterattack is made to keep open the line of retreat of Govorov Corps. The attack is a success and we throw back Bohme’s infantry division form its exposed position. It can’t be called more then a local success but it shows our troops have the will to fight at the necessary moments. More then 80% of all other combats on the front are lost however, and our troops are slowly retreating.

**Searry** · 13-07-2009 10:08

I'd probably name the Hanko province Salo, and make a tiny province of hanko with port where it belongs.

Singleton Mosby: Log. bomb everything, they will be crawling to moscow, have low org, and then you can counter-attack them.

**Singleton Mosby** · 13-07-2009 10:09

A little interlude

In honor of my valiant struggle to repel the Fascist invader an anonymous forum member has written a song. Let's include this as a "Guess the Author" interlude before we go on with the Battle for Odessa.
I am quite interesting if any of you can guess who wrote it

Defending the Motherland

(To the tune of the Little Jimmy Dickens song:
"Where were you when the ship hit the sand?")

Where were you when the shit hit the fan?
Digging trenches to defend the Motherland!
'Cause the Commisar would shoot me
if I failed to do my duty,
so I'm fighting with a shovel in my hand.

Where were you when the fight was getting hot?
I was waiting for my comrade to get shot!
'Cause we've only got one gun,
and on Tuesdays he's the one
who gets to use it and the rest of us do not.

Where were you when the shit hit the fan?
Hiding in the forest, playing "Partisan"!
Courageously attackin'
Fritz's gasoline and rations,
running off with his schnitzel in my hand!

**Grenville Coney** · 13-07-2009 10:10

Please work on this full time - forget about wife, family, job, beer etc etc until August 5th (extra day in case of slow download)

Thread: A BETA-preview Barbarossa AAR

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