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Thread: A BETA-preview Barbarossa AAR

  1. #401
    Lt.-Colonel of Guerillas Singleton Mosby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baneslave View Post
    Maybe, because he is previewer, not betatester? (I am not sure if Singleton Mosby is actually a betatester).
    Indeed, I am just writing the most massive and in depth preview you have ever seen of a game

    The techs you showed in the pic are the basic techs used to unlock a tech tree on the other pages.

    As I have four chapters ready I might as well up the pace of new chapters a bit from 1,5 to 2,5 a day. Hold tight!

  2. #402
    Grandpa Maur DarthMaur's Avatar
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    So, it seems HOI got operational level this time.
    Polyamory? And now also the (shorter, but expanding lately!) Polish version!

    Androgynous atheist bisexual feminist liberal libertine polyamorous transhumanist switch.

  3. #403
    Star Swirl the Bearded Baneslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singleton Mosby View Post
    The techs you showed in the pic are the basic techs used to unlock a tech tree on the other pages.
    Huh, quite interesting. So it is bit harder to rush techs forward, at least.

  4. #404
    Citizen G'Kar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singleton Mosby View Post
    The techs you showed in the pic are the basic techs used to unlock a tech tree on the other pages.
    Ah, I thought they were meant to improve your theoretical experience values.

    Typing in all capital letters went out of style with FORTRAN.

  5. #405
    Contra-Vice-Double Colonel Alexus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sangeli View Post
    Thats why when I will play the first thing I'll do is counterattack with every division and let them get encircled and then destroyed, like it should be done. Then I'll have a true challenge when half my army is gone.
    Good luck replacing them with the as-mentioned comically low IC, though...

  6. #406
    Citizen G'Kar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
    Good luck replacing them with the as-mentioned comically low IC, though...
    I'm curious about how Lend-Lease will be handled in HoI 3. IMHO it was too little and too unreliable in HoI 2.

    Typing in all capital letters went out of style with FORTRAN.

  7. #407
    General hendriks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
    Good luck replacing them with the as-mentioned comically low IC, though...
    Yes, a human Germany would encircle as much as possible and would get those USSR troops encircled and destroyed, how many of those would be able to rebuild after shattering would remain a question, but indeed, IF the USSR AI has ANY chance to face a human German, it will require a larger IC base. Probably IC was adjusted down as they saw the USSR as too massive and with a too large army, impossible to be broken in AI-AI games, which is not the way to fix it, as the USSR units need to break quickly.

    Especially with all these small provinces, human encirclements on a huge scale will be even better to replay on the massive scale now presented. I'm afraid the AI will have no hope with human guided deep assaults.

  8. #408
    General hendriks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G'Kar View Post
    I'm curious about how Lend-Lease will be handled in HoI 3. IMHO it was too little and too unreliable in HoI 2.
    It should be handled in real convoys, so you can actually sink the resources. It would need an event to set those up I think. The USSR with such a small IC base will have plentyfull resources, so those might not be even required as they were in HOI2. It's all in how the AI can hold off a human penetrating everywhere and get a much larger IC base in 1942 or reduced unit cost build. The cost of overall units being the same for each country is also a total nightmare, as units were raised in army sizes in the USSR in a matter of weeks, just poorly trained and badly equipped, but they did fight...

    Raising units as reserves for like 2 IC could be a way forward for the USSR.

  9. #409
    Lt. General Wulf145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendriks View Post
    Yes, a human Germany would encircle as much as possible and would get those USSR troops encircled and destroyed, how many of those would be able to rebuild after shattering would remain a question, but indeed, IF the USSR AI has ANY chance to face a human German, it will require a larger IC base. Probably IC was adjusted down as they saw the USSR as too massive and with a too large army, impossible to be broken in AI-AI games, which is not the way to fix it, as the USSR units need to break quickly.

    Especially with all these small provinces, human encirclements on a huge scale will be even better to replay on the massive scale now presented. I'm afraid the AI will have no hope with human guided deep assaults.
    With the new logistics system it could be that the 'deep assaults' are naturaly restricted to the spearhead divisions facing a ever dwindeling supplies basicaly stopping them after xx kms. Hence no more blitzing to Kiew and then encirceling most of the red army.
    If it is so, the German AI is, in fact, playing well by knowing its supply line limitations and going for 'local' encirclements rather than 'huge' ones.
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  10. #410
    Star Swirl the Bearded Baneslave's Avatar
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    We don't know how doctrines effect building costs yet, and if they have that effect in early beta. Also, I wouldn't worry too much about beta's balance.

  11. #411
    Lt.-Colonel of Guerillas Singleton Mosby's Avatar
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    Chapter eight: The vast Expanses of the USSR

    Let’s start with some pictures of the major redeployment of my forces in the east and on the Iran border. Of the later about a third is sent towards the Odessa front while the army is spread out along the Turkish and Iranian border, from the Caspian to the Black Seas.


    In the Far East a major reshuffling is in place. Four armies, some small, others large are stationed on the border. Two of these are entrained and sent west as quickly as possible. I might well need these troops for some upcoming counterattacks in October and November. There are no illusions these troops will arrive earlier.






    Then a pic that might interest you a lot as it gives a good overview of the current state of Europe.

    And a little ‘teaser’ to end this small (but pic-heavy) chapter.

    Last edited by Singleton Mosby; 14-07-2009 at 13:07.

  12. #412
    Star Swirl the Bearded Baneslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singleton Mosby View Post
    And a little ‘teaser’ to end this small (but pic-heavy) chapter.
    A secret Soviet super-super-super-heavy battleship embarks from Leningrad?

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf145 View Post
    With the new logistics system it could be that the 'deep assaults' are naturaly restricted to the spearhead divisions facing a ever dwindeling supplies basicaly stopping them after xx kms. Hence no more blitzing to Kiew and then encirceling most of the red army.
    If it is so, the German AI is, in fact, playing well by knowing its supply line limitations and going for 'local' encirclements rather than 'huge' ones.

    It might be true, but in general I feel too many players put all the eggs in one basket called logistics system. If it fails (as it will allow Germans/Japan to do transocean amphibious assaults or actually move deep into Russia with high combat efficiency kept), we are back to HoI2 reality.

    Plus, if too many Soviet units get destroyed (as any human player will attempt for sure) at the border, unless logistics makes German crawl really, really slow, they will be able to win anyway by simply separating, encircling and destroying remaining Soviet units and just driving eastwards.

    Oh well, time will tell.

  14. #414
    General hendriks's Avatar
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    July 6th, more then 2 weeks into Barbarossa and only some border provinces have been occupied?

    Has Finland declared war yet?

  15. #415
    General hendriks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alojzy View Post
    It might be true, but in general I feel too many players put all the eggs in one basket called logistics system. If it fails (as it will allow Germans/Japan to do transocean amphibious assaults or actually move deep into Russia with high combat efficiency kept), we are back to HoI2 reality.

    Plus, if too many Soviet units get destroyed (as any human player will attempt for sure) at the border, unless logistics makes German crawl really, really slow, they will be able to win anyway by simply separating, encircling and destroying remaining Soviet units and just driving eastwards.

    Oh well, time will tell.
    Very true, and hopefully so NOT true in a few weeks...

  16. #416
    Lt.-Colonel of Guerillas Singleton Mosby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendriks View Post
    July 6th, more then 2 weeks into Barbarossa and only some border provinces have been occupied?

    Has Finland declared war yet?
    No, and they still did not dow in August.

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendriks View Post
    Yes, a human Germany would encircle as much as possible and would get those USSR troops encircled and destroyed, how many of those would be able to rebuild after shattering would remain a question, but indeed, IF the USSR AI has ANY chance to face a human German, it will require a larger IC base. Probably IC was adjusted down as they saw the USSR as too massive and with a too large army, impossible to be broken in AI-AI games, which is not the way to fix it, as the USSR units need to break quickly.

    Especially with all these small provinces, human encirclements on a huge scale will be even better to replay on the massive scale now presented. I'm afraid the AI will have no hope with human guided deep assaults.
    With the new concept of practical experience, wouldn´t it be sufficient to up the practical experience for infantry and militia for the USSR, making producing those troop types faster and cheeper. That way you do not have to give the USSR any more IC, because that would make them unhistoricaly better at everything when they in reality was able to pump out massive amounts of infantry divisions. Perhaps this is what paradox have done.

    At least that was some of the reasoning from Paradox mentioned in a previous DD, quite some time ago.

  18. #418
    Star Swirl the Bearded Baneslave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocke_p View Post
    With the new concept of practical experience, wouldn´t it be sufficient to up the practical experience for infantry and militia for USSR, making producing those troop types faster and cheeper. That way you do not have to give the USSR any more IC, because that would make them unhistoricaly better at everything when they in reality was able to pump out massive amounts of infantry divisions.

    At least that was some of the reasoning from Paradox mentioned in a previous DD, quite some time ago.
    Don't forget effects of training laws (Soviets' faster than normal, compared to Germans' slower than normal) and doctrines.

  19. #419
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    Dear god, through how many provinces do those troops of Far-East have to march?!?!?!

    Are you not afraid that Turkey might join?

  20. #420
    Second Lieutenant felix steiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    Are you not afraid that Turkey might join?
    Why should he worry about Turkey if even Finland hasn't joined the war? Must be because of the old beta...

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