Development Diary #35 - 1st of July 2009

[SwordOfJustice]

I think Johan just persuaded me to buy HOI3. Err, like I wasn't go to do that anyway...

- Sword

[henryjai]

can't wait to play with AI handling all my armies, i would think this would be challenging.

what i will do in game? move a few anti-partisan units around while the fighting goes maybe.

[NrmK]

You'll take care of politics and issue death threats to your armycommanders if they fail you. And if it gets really boring you'll start using your brilliant strategigal and tactical military genious and start to move entire armies between theatres without consulting AI first. The you sack AI because it failed to capture it's objectives

[diesekiel]

I think that if one HQ can have one objective, then you could in theory order every division to have a different objective. That could be used easily for encirclements. Give every korps their own objective and command personally armoured forces. You circle, AI supports.

If you give every division its own objective, then you just go back to the principle of HoI 2. But it's true that giving objectives to Corps or Army Corps would allow tou to follow you own strategy, without dealing too much with every aspect of every single battle.

But I hope the AI is not as intelligent as it has been said previously, otherwise the war aspect of the game would be put aside. It would be tempting to leave warfare to the AI and to focus on production, diplomacy, etc.. , which are not the best part of the game (to me).

[devoncop]

But I hope the AI is not as intelligent as it has been said previously, otherwise the war aspect of the game would be put aside. It would be tempting to leave warfare to the AI and to focus on production, diplomacy, etc.. , which are not the best part of the game (to me).[/QUOTE]

But that is the beauty of the system in HOI3 is it not? You dont HAVE to relinquish any control of warfare to the AI, just as you dont HAVE to focus on economics and politics if you find that part of the game a chore. In many ways this is a game that could be played almost as a turn based, constantly paused micro challenge (did someone mention WITP by Matrix!) .............

As it happens I will be allocating the AI non active fronts and playing slowly and real time but the choice is yours............. and it looks GREAT

[diesekiel]

Yes of course it sounds great the way it is described. But if the AI is too smart and you realise that it is even smarter than you, the temptation would be great to leave warfare to it. HoI 3 wouldn't be a wargame anymore. On the other hand, if the AI is nuts, then you would have to handle everything like in HoI 2. Let's hope Paradox Interactive found the perfect equilibrium!
As for the other aspects of the game (diplomacy, economy,.. ), I enjoy managing them, but not as much as warfare.

[wright1331]

Yes of course it sounds great the way it is described. But if the AI is too smart and you realise that it is even smarter than you, the temptation would be great to leave warfare to it. HoI 3 wouldn't be a wargame anymore. On the other hand, if the AI is nuts, then you would have to handle everything like in HoI 2. Let's hope Paradox Interactive found the perfect equilibrium!
As for the other aspects of the game (diplomacy, economy,.. ), I enjoy managing them, but not as much as warfare.

if you feel this is the case, then dont play on the hard levels... very easy fix

[Sparrow]

I don't think provinces will be impassable anymore, they'll simply be given zero infra, and thus will cause armies to move at a snails pace in and out of them and starve them of supplies while they are there. Which is historically accurate.

I preferred the impassable option. It's a pita to have regions you can't defend but the AI can use.

[Sparrow]

But I hope the AI is not as intelligent as it has been said previously, otherwise the war aspect of the game would be put aside. It would be tempting to leave warfare to the AI and to focus on production, diplomacy, etc.. , which are not the best part of the game (to me).

But that is the beauty of the system in HOI3 is it not? You dont HAVE to relinquish any control of warfare to the AI, just as you dont HAVE to focus on economics and politics if you find that part of the game a chore. In many ways this is a game that could be played almost as a turn based, constantly paused micro challenge (did someone mention WITP by Matrix!) .............

As it happens I will be allocating the AI non active fronts and playing slowly and real time but the choice is yours............. and it looks GREAT

What's the point then.

This is not an updated and adapted version of the Vicki economy with factories to build, resources to hord to build divisions and ships, populations to convert from workers, clerks, soldiers and world market to manipulate. Now if it was then yes it would be fun working on the economy while letting the AI handle the front line.

[RCBricker]

Looking forward when one day(HOI IV or V) will have a "High command room" in which my Artefitial command staff will present to my lazynes a plans for instance:I decideed we are atacking on the West on June the 10 1940 my herrs..please make a proposal of composition of troops and order of battle plan according to our war capacities, estimated inteligence datas..etc..and..choose a name of operation..say Fall Weiss.. computer "Staff" will present to me proposal of battle plan... than I will just maybee modiffie slightly(or everything).
Than I will click on-execute operation "Fall Weiss", open my beer end enjoy.
Am I lazy,or am I lazy...thats certainly the game I will enjoy even in my 70-s.

I disagree with you sarcasm and would like to point out that this is a Grand Strategy that is to simulate the running of a country at war. I never said you couldn't plan and organize the invasion yourself, but every country even now has their military draft plans for possibilities to determine their readiness.

This idea had nothing to do with not wanting to do the work, but more along the lines of realism and the addition of utilizing some of the AIs ability to calculate information (like AI controlled countries do) by having it look at what you know and translate that into a suggestion. the intelligence may not be correct and building to that design could result in a devastating loss.

[RCBricker]

Is it my bad english or something else?

Its not sarcasm,its the future of developement of grand strategy games.

Getting metacrpal tunel syndrome by freneticaly clicking mouse for hours is not the way I imagine work of one strategian.Using les your mouse and more your brain for true strategical decisions, that is the future of strategy games how I see them.

I remember one long passed thread about submarines in HOI II where "strategians" on this forum proclaimed "strategy"that subs must be micromanaged by manualy withdrow them from battle to make them efective..What does this kind of game feature has with strategical thinking?It has nothing,its a mouse clicking and reflexes excercise,nothing to do with strategical thinking.
So,to clear,my point is that future of PC straegies should be on more strategical thinking and decisions and les mouse clicking.
The introduction of AI led parts of the game is the move in wright direction.

ok was a misunderstanding of your intented comments.

I disagree with my suggestion as mouse clicking vs strategic thinking.

the ability to ask an AI driven advisor to built an invasion plan is not working in the wrong direction. It is simply asking the computer to suggest the required military and logistical requirements to attack a given country. You would still need to make all of the economic and strategic decision as to how you would gather those resources and men. You would also have to decide when you should attack, less men and resources vs better weather or political advantages.

Look at as one more intelligence tool at your disposal. the computer would put together the information it would be up to you how you use that over all information. also if the plan came with organization of the units into theatres and disposition on the map for preperation of the attack, this would actually lessen the amount of mouse clicking (thus reducing carpal tunnel risk) and free up time for the player to spend more time on actually making strategic decisions.

[Sargnagel]

This will make playing as Germany a lot harder.
Now you have to defend GB, France and possibly Norway and Spain.

Will there be any Atlantic islands Germany can build intel stations on to track US fleet movements?

[NrmK]

Iceland or Greenland? Wouldn't it be more effective to build them in Norway, easier to supply and safer because islands are long way from German mainland.

[Sargnagel]

Well the earlier you spot the US comming the more time you have to get troops to where they're probably going to land, so you need less troops on the Western front.

[NrmK]

I believe they need to get to southern Britain before that. And your spies can tell then what is going on. On you could send your ships to the Atlantic to spy enemy movement same time they sink all ships moving.

[Alex_brunius]

Iceland or Greenland? Wouldn't it be more effective to build them in Norway, easier to supply and safer because islands are long way from German mainland.

Depends where and how you aim to fight I say. If your looking for a decisive Jutland style Brawl Norway would be Ideal to help you detect, direct bombers at and defeat the RN. This would be a good start for Seelöwe.

If your goal is starving UK out with convoy raiding then an encircling movement building up good bases in Iceland and Greenland and other atlantic islands should provice more useful.

[NrmK]

Depends where and how you aim to fight I say. If your looking for a decisive Jutland style Brawl Norway would be Ideal to help you detect, direct bombers at and defeat the RN. This would be a good start for Seelöwe.

If your goal is starving UK out with convoy raiding then an encircling movement building up good bases in Iceland and Greenland and other atlantic islands should provice more useful.

Yes but I can imagine how much of a pain in the A**e will be to try and supply forces hundreds of miles behind enemylines. RN will try with all of their forces to stop and destroy supplies ships and starve garrisons out.

[ok2useLane]

I kept trying to get a tooltip from icons on the screenshot by keeping the cursor over it

I kept doing the same thing. This just gets better and better!

[diesekiel]

I think these 2 things can do wonders in a wargame. I can't agree with those who say that the game would be more fun with less clicks. I still think the player has a huge role to play during wars and battles. Choosing a plan among the ones proposed by the AI would not be enough to enjoy playing. You can let the AI organize the supply routes, you can let it control air fleets and infantry divisions, but I think you can not let it control an entire theatre. There is no strategy in letting the computer fight for you. And no fun neither.

But someone on this server said that he would let his defensive theatres under the AI command, and I think that's a nice way of doing things. Anyway, PI does give us the choice between using the AI and not using it, which is great.

[208]

We can create our own theatres.
I asked Johan about creating AI controllet "Heeresgruppe Seelöwe" in page 1. He said that it can happen. So I think that means we can create as many theatres we want to.

I believe Johan was more answering the other part of your question (about whether the AI will be able to perform a Sealion) and didn't mean to say you could create your own theatres. It's been stated previously in other DD threads that theatre creation (and removal) is handled solely by the AI.

If activated, will the Theater AI control only units assigned to it in the order of battle, or will it control all units within its own area that are not assigned to other Theaters (directly or indirectly)?

I think this was mostly answered already, but - the theatre AI will only control the units assigned to it. The "region of interest" and the units assigned to the theatre are independent and orthogonal. The AI will attempt to move any units assigned to it which are NOT within its region of interest, into it. In this way it's very easy to order troops to move between fronts, you just reassign them from one theatre HQ to another and let the AI handle the actual movement (including any necessary sea transporting etc).

But it's no fun.. I can't play Hitler and change places of entire armies between Heeresgruppes if they are under one HQ

You can - don't put the Theatre HQ under AI control, but have all the subsidiary units AI-controlled.

Yes of course it sounds great the way it is described. But if the AI is too smart and you realise that it is even smarter than you, the temptation would be great to leave warfare to it.

But at least you can learn and improve, to the point where the AI is no longer "smarter than you", while I'm assuming the AI in HoI3 cannot (without game patches/modding ).