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Thread: Development Diary #34 - 24th of June 2009

  1. #141
    Resident, Fawlty Towers Chaplain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Balbinater View Post
    in HoI2, yugoslavia had a GoI from france i think that ended on 1 JAN 40. does yugoslavia have any GoI's from any western country here in 1938? that would be definitely important in this conflict
    Are AI nations such as Yugoslavia, Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc., programmed to seek GOI's wherever possible? Shouldn't they be?
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  2. #142
    Part Time Game Designer King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alojzy View Post
    Well, ok, I'll make a first serious nitpick (hey, I did the same when Rome demo went out and it turned out to be spot on)...

    I feel that combat resolution and land units movement is too fast. If 20 days is enough for Italian units, that are mainly infantry to break the Yugoslavian defense (even if YUG were not mobilized at all, ITA was only partially mobilized) and get almost half of YUG territory (mountain terrain, not that high infra), and occupy half of the country, then imagine what can do motorized/mechanized units with proper doctrines, commanders and in easier terrain/better infra.

    Of course, I might be wrong, but seems like some tweaking might be needed here and there. Nothing big considering game is not out yet, still, something to think about.

    Otherwise, awesome AAR.
    If you look at the leading units in the screen shot those are mainly motorised our mountain. The majority of the troops trailing behind are infantry.
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  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Alojzy View Post
    Well, ok, I'll make a first serious nitpick (hey, I did the same when Rome demo went out and it turned out to be spot on)...

    I feel that combat resolution and land units movement is too fast. If 20 days is enough for Italian units, that are mainly infantry to break the Yugoslavian defense (even if YUG were not mobilized at all, ITA was only partially mobilized) and get almost half of YUG territory (mountain terrain, not that high infra), and occupy half of the country, then imagine what can do motorized/mechanized units with proper doctrines, commanders and in easier terrain/better infra.

    Of course, I might be wrong, but seems like some tweaking might be needed here and there. Nothing big considering game is not out yet, still, something to think about.

    Otherwise, awesome AAR.
    This could very well be the first battle of the war and a total suprise to the Yugoslavian. It also (in my opinion) have something to do with how the defending forces have been placed. I don't think thats proper way do defend Yugoslavia.
    If you have one stretch out front, anyone can break through and just rush.

  4. #144
    Never mind KIng. I buy the game anyway. No more comments from me.

  5. #145
    I am the Law Sokraates's Avatar
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    Thanks for this hands-off AAR. Something truly novel, I think.

    Regarding troops requested by theaters: Is the a setting to allow the AI manage the build-queue, like it managed slider-allocation in HoI2? If yes: How will the AI handle/queue theater requests or how will it determine which force in a theater (army, navy, airforce) should be priorized?
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  6. #146
    Philosopher of the Future Alexander Seil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alojzy View Post
    Well, ok, I'll make a first serious nitpick (hey, I did the same when Rome demo went out and it turned out to be spot on)...

    I feel that combat resolution and land units movement is too fast. If 20 days is enough for Italian units, that are mainly infantry to break the Yugoslavian defense (even if YUG were not mobilized at all, ITA was only partially mobilized) and get almost half of YUG territory (mountain terrain, not that high infra), and occupy half of the country, then imagine what can do motorized/mechanized units with proper doctrines, commanders and in easier terrain/better infra.

    Of course, I might be wrong, but seems like some tweaking might be needed here and there. Nothing big considering game is not out yet, still, something to think about.

    Otherwise, awesome AAR.
    Of course, such a thing could never happen in real life.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain View Post
    My feelings exactly. The Italians weren't exactly a blitzkrieg juggernaut. And the terrain in Yugoslavia is tough. Hopefully "optimisation" will take care of some of this. But I can already see the need for modding.
    I think the issue here is that they played wisely and "got the drop" on the Yugoslavian Army by attacking them when they were at low mobilization.

    Had Yugoslavia mobilized sooner there would have been problems which is why they attacked so early in the winter because German aggression would have also increased Yugo's mobilization.

  8. #148
    Did you as Italy get some reaction from France and GB on your war against Yugoslavia ?

  9. #149
    Philosopher of the Future Alexander Seil's Avatar
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    The Yugoslav army collapsed in 11 days in 1941. And they had numerical parity with Axis then. As well as 2 years warning.

  10. #150
    Lt. General Wulf145's Avatar
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    One thing I noticed is that the AI seems to move single HQs ahead of the bulk of the Army, judging by the HQ Counters with 0-1 Atk & Def values. This is OK as long as you are not facing any opposition, doesn't it mean that as soon as you face a counter offensive or a decent defensive position your HQs will be in serious trouble?
    Have you had that type of scenario yet, or does this fall under AI fine tuning?

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  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander Seil View Post
    Of course, such a thing could never happen in real life.
    Are you suggesting that Italian army of 1938 had ability ot perform with speed of Werhmacht in 1941? Well thought argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander Seil View Post
    The Yugoslav army collapsed in 11 days in 1941. And they had numerical parity with Axis then. As well as 2 years warning.
    They had NO warning, they were under German "protection" in 1940-1941 period. Germany invaded them because Yugoslavia decided to change that.




    Re King :

    You might be right, although final screenshot (other are irrevelant, shwing early stages of operation), shows:

    - 1 infantry division near Beograd (the furthest away from offensive starting provinces)
    - 1 motorized division nearby (ok, they should be fast),
    - 3 HQs (hard to say what is UNDER them, let's assume those are motorized/cavalry divisions/brigades),
    - another motorized division,
    - 2 infantry divisions, another HQ and another infantry divisions in middle/coast section of the front.

    It certainly doesn't look like mainly motorized force, unless HQs are hiding something else...

    Again, don't get me wrong. I don't wanna be a partypooper, but I hate pointless fanboyism where everyone only have praises before the premiere. It simply seems not right to have such an operation speed in case ITA vs. YUG in 1938.

  12. #152
    Philosopher of the Future Alexander Seil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alojzy View Post
    Are you suggesting that Italian army of 1938 had ability ot perform with speed of Werhmacht in 1941? Well thought argument.
    So, according to you, 60 < 11? Likewise, a well thought-out position, sir.

  13. #153
    Studio Manager Paradox Dev Team Johan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alojzy View Post
    . It simply seems not right to have such an operation speed in case ITA vs. YUG in 1938.
    6 times slower than historical attack is too fast for you?

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  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander Seil View Post
    So, according to you, 60 < 11? Likewise, a well thought-out position, sir.
    Alex, I'm not letting myself be pulled into this kind of discussion.

    I stated valid concern. If you feel it's good for the game to have Italina infantry crossing mountains of Croatia and Bosnia with lightning speed, fair enough, obviously you do not share my concern.

    My point stands.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Johan View Post
    6 times slower than historical attack is too fast for you?
    Wehrmacht 1941 =/ Italian Army 1938.

    Only that Johan.

  16. #156
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    Yay for Johan, and triple yay for King!!! Thanks for the cool update.
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  17. #157
    DONT TREAD ON ME Moderator TheLoneGunman's Avatar
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    The only forcing "blitzing" across Yugoslavia are his mountain forces and motorized forces... Everything else still needed to catch up to continue the fight.

  18. #158
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    This looks promising.

  19. #159
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    Simply wonderful! Can't wait until August!
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  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoneGunman View Post
    The only forcing "blitzing" across Yugoslavia are his mountain forces and motorized forces... Everything else still needed to catch up to continue the fight.
    Exactly. Since the yug defence was set up the way it was and there is no zone of control represented in this game as far as i know for troop movement and/or supplies, you can just put the pedal to the metal and rush inland.
    I don't see anything wrong here.

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