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Thread: Armageddon 1.3 Beta 2 (24/04/2009) is now up (general comments/questions only please)

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    I don't understand -- those slider moves were possible before and after the beta patch. What's the "unintended consequence" here?
    Yes, but USA was never forced to follow the interventionism path before. I always left my int slider alone, it was not required for spy actions. I always moved my hawk slider manually for increased population growth. Now the balance has changed. In order to even protect itself from other nations spies, USA must go int instead. Then there is no reason not to join the allies early, why steal british and french bp's when they will just give them to you? In return you give bp's to all the allies, and suddenly the Entente is much stronger. Of course the new patch has also changed my research paths as well, but that is a different story.
    "If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

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  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Cueball View Post
    So, if you move 3 interventionism, one for each year you mean?

    In EIR we stuck isolationism events in to prevent USA from front end loading the game balance.
    So you allow the USA to fall victim to increasingly dangerous espionage attacks? Is that fair and balanced? Even to defend itself from espionage(and I don't mean BP theft, I mean dissent, research delay, production delay, etc...) the USA must become more interventionist. The game engine gives you no option. In MP this would be even worse as the axis would make a concerted effort to hurt a USA unfairly forced to be weak by your events.
    "If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinBG View Post
    Seems like a bad install. What checksum do you get?
    The checksum is the letters that appear after the version? It is PHVR.

    I uninstalled the game and reinstalled the Doomsday: Armageddon and overwrite it with the patch.

    It's a pity because I was enjoying again the game after some big problems with the convoys in 1.3 beta1 that appear to be solved in this version, but I cannot play due to constant crashes.

    Thanck you anyway

  4. #64
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by son of liberty View Post
    Yes, but USA was never forced to follow the interventionism path before. I always left my int slider alone, it was not required for spy actions. I always moved my hawk slider manually for increased population growth. Now the balance has changed. In order to even protect itself from other nations spies, USA must go int instead. Then there is no reason not to join the allies early, why steal british and french bp's when they will just give them to you? In return you give bp's to all the allies, and suddenly the Entente is much stronger. Of course the new patch has also changed my research paths as well, but that is a different story.
    Quote Originally Posted by son of liberty View Post
    So you allow the USA to fall victim to increasingly dangerous espionage attacks? Is that fair and balanced? Even to defend itself from espionage(and I don't mean BP theft, I mean dissent, research delay, production delay, etc...) the USA must become more interventionist. The game engine gives you no option. In MP this would be even worse as the axis would make a concerted effort to hurt a USA unfairly forced to be weak by your events.
    You are no more forced to go Interventionism than before. Your counter-intelligence does not depend on your Interventionism slider. It's Open/Closed society that helps with counter-intelligence. The only way to "protect" the USA is to go more closed society (e.g. imprison all Japanese-Americans without a trail) and to increase your intelligence spending to level 10. Researching Encryption techs also helps.
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  5. #65
    Quintus Fabius Cunctator e_quality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by son of liberty View Post
    Yes, but USA was never forced to follow the interventionism path before. I always left my int slider alone, it was not required for spy actions. I always moved my hawk slider manually for increased population growth. Now the balance has changed. In order to even protect itself from other nations spies, USA must go int instead. Then there is no reason not to join the allies early, why steal british and french bp's when they will just give them to you? In return you give bp's to all the allies, and suddenly the Entente is much stronger. Of course the new patch has also changed my research paths as well, but that is a different story.
    I concur. I'm as happy about the new patch as the next guy, and I totally understand why you changed the intelligence system...

    BUT...

    To enjoy playing USA now I simply have to switch off the spy system (by setting days between missions to some ridiculously high figure, like 900). At least if I want to play a semi historical game.

    While I do get the logic behind the new spy system, this is unfortunate and hurts/affects USA unproportionally.
    "Dead battles, like dead generals, hold the military mind in their dead grip."

  6. #66
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by e_quality View Post
    To enjoy playing USA now I simply have to switch off the spy system (by setting days between missions to some ridiculously high figure, like 900). At least if I want to play a semi historical game.

    While I do get the logic behind the new spy system, this is unfortunate and hurts/affects USA unproportionally.
    Actually, the USA is the most "protected" of all Allied countries, as it is fairly far away from the usual spy aggressors. Plus, as the USA, you should really be able to survive the occasional dissent hit.
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  7. #67
    Quintus Fabius Cunctator e_quality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    Actually, the USA is the most "protected" of all Allied countries, as it is fairly far away from the usual spy aggressors. Plus, as the USA, you should really be able to survive the occasional dissent hit.
    Admittedly I play almost exclusively as USA, and so I will take your well informed word at face value. However, this leads me to conclude that the spying system REALLY needs to be toned down, as the dissent hits and production delays as the USA are both common and serious as it is.
    "Dead battles, like dead generals, hold the military mind in their dead grip."

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    Actually, the USA is the most "protected" of all Allied countries, as it is fairly far away from the usual spy aggressors. Plus, as the USA, you should really be able to survive the occasional dissent hit.
    In my first attempt with this patch yesterday, I took 3 dissent hits in 1 year. Going interventionist in the second game reduced the hits to an average of 1 per year. However this is in single player mode. Think MP! The axis will know that usa is vulnerable to these attacks. With the new system, there REALLY NEEDS TO BE CASUS BELLI for these intel missions. After the soviets have delayed factory builds for the second time, do they really expect trade to continue? Do they really expect lend lease? After japan has tried and failed or succeeded to cause dissent or delay my research, do they really expect me to continue selling them oil? There is way to much of a disconnect here. I may not be permitted to dow by the game mechanics, but cutting off trade I can do.
    "If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

    Bloody, Bloody Sunday WWCLIII

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    Actually, the USA is the most "protected" of all Allied countries, as it is fairly far away from the usual spy aggressors. Plus, as the USA, you should really be able to survive the occasional dissent hit.
    I have to ask if you have tried it? Or are you ASSuming?
    "If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

    Bloody, Bloody Sunday WWCLIII

  10. #70
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by e_quality View Post
    Admittedly I play almost exclusively as USA, and so I will take your well informed word at face value. However, this leads me to conclude that the spying system REALLY needs to be toned down, as the dissent hits and production delays as the USA are both common and serious as it is.
    I played two test-games with the USA, and I had no-where near the problems you suffered. Mexico and Japan stole the occasional blueprint, and every once in a while my production or techteam got set back. Sometimes Germany or Italy got lucky against me and succeeded in a mission. Nothing game-breaking at all.
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  11. #71
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by son of liberty View Post
    In my first attempt with this patch yesterday, I took 3 dissent hits in 1 year. Going interventionist in the second game reduced the hits to an average of 1 per year. However this is in single player mode. Think MP! The axis will know that usa is vulnerable to these attacks. With the new system, there REALLY NEEDS TO BE CASUS BELLI for these intel missions. After the soviets have delayed factory builds for the second time, do they really expect trade to continue? Do they really expect lend lease? After japan has tried and failed or succeeded to cause dissent or delay my research, do they really expect me to continue selling them oil? There is way to much of a disconnect here. I may not be permitted to dow by the game mechanics, but cutting off trade I can do.
    I'm not a cutthroat player, but a 2% dissent hit per year should really be acceptable. Just divert some IC for a few days and it's gone! As I said, going Interventionist will not help you with your counter-espionage, only with your active espionage.

    You can always cancel trades and not send Lend-Lease deals if you feel that the recipient country does not deserve it.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorin08 View Post
    I updated from Beta1, and after two month the game crashes (playing as germany), started a new game same result (before the game was not crashing at all) tried reinstalling and started a new game... same results.

    Anybody experiencing the same?? I'm Using xp
    Now Im having the same problem...

    The Checksum is the same PHVR

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  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    I'm not a cutthroat player, but a 2% dissent hit per year should really be acceptable. Just divert some IC for a few days and it's gone! As I said, going Interventionist will not help you with your counter-espionage, only with your active espionage.

    You can always cancel trades and not send Lend-Lease deals if you feel that the recipient country does not deserve it.
    3 hits in one year is 6%, add that to all the other dissent generating events USA already gets and yes it becomes an issue. If permitted to do so(if these attacks generated belligerence as they should) I would dow any nation using intel agencies to attack me.
    "If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

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  14. #74
    academic outlaw Moderator safferli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by son of liberty View Post
    3 hits in one year is 6%, add that to all the other dissent generating events USA already gets and yes it becomes an issue. If permitted to do so(if these attacks generated belligerence as they should) I would dow any nation using intel agencies to attack me.
    The random dissent generating events (Opposition attacks XXX policy) were reduced (halved) in this patch.

    Personally, I find it absolutely acceptable that the USA gets hit by 1-2 dissent hits per year.

    And no country dows other countries just because of some spy incident. Even today, with US spy drones getting shot over China, and British spy "stones" being found in Russia. Spies get expelled and there might be a diplomatic backlash (reduced relations, in game). Every country plays the spy game, and every country understands that you don't start a war, just because you found a spy in your country!
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    The AI's tendency to do spy missions was already toned down in this patch version. What is your spy level? (Up to level 10 gives you a counter-espionage bonus), did you research en/decryption techs?

    Neighbours have a higher chance to succeed in spy missions, so what you are seeing is "normal" behaviour.
    I am getting hit with smears seemingly 1 time a month as germany, quite incredible, i have to pay down my revolt risk once a month or more :/ totally fubars my build up.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    The AI's tendency to do spy missions was already toned down in this patch version. What is your spy level? (Up to level 10 gives you a counter-espionage bonus), did you research en/decryption techs?

    Neighbours have a higher chance to succeed in spy missions, so what you are seeing is "normal" behaviour.
    My intelligence level is up to 17, and i'm still getting hit by sabotage, smears and tech team delays. This is Germany in 1939.
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  17. #77
    Darkest Hour Developer MartinBG's Avatar

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    Only levels up to 10th helps in counter-espionage. Dismal Enigma minister gives +5% intelligence bonus, Encryption/Decryption techs also give bonuses.

  18. #78
    HOI2 Arma Patch Prj Manager coreymas's Avatar
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    Updated first post with notes.
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  19. #79
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    Computer AI for Axis powers (Italy especially) is Bad! I'm playing as Germany in current game. Only time AI powers do anything is when i take Military control. I want useful AI allies. Are there any mods that improve it.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by safferli View Post
    The random dissent generating events (Opposition attacks XXX policy) were reduced (halved) in this patch.
    In one year, I got a massive strike(3%), Parliamentary scandal(5%) and 3 smears(6%). 14% will mess up any build scheme. 3 weeks after all dissent was gone, I got a military parade. I almost through my computer out the window.

    Personally, I find it absolutely acceptable that the USA gets hit by 1-2 dissent hits per year.

    And no country dows other countries just because of some spy incident. Even today, with US spy drones getting shot over China, and British spy "stones" being found in Russia. Spies get expelled and there might be a diplomatic backlash (reduced relations, in game). Every country plays the spy game, and every country understands that you don't start a war, just because you found a spy in your country!
    If reduced relations actually meant something in the game, like ai canceling trades with the offender or WAR, then I would agree. As it is the intel missions have no consequences to the offending nation and no real defense against them.
    Now you don't start a war for "finding a spy", however if said spy was found giving money and weapons to a group of disaffected citizens for the purpose of starting a civil war or some other uprising, such actions would be considered an act of war.
    "If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; may your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

    Bloody, Bloody Sunday WWCLIII

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