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Thread: Development Diary #23 - 8th of April 2009

  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasakka View Post
    What determines the MP and IC of the government in exile? I would assume Poland and France getting WAY more than, say, Belgium or Norway. Which was what happened historically. Is it a certain percentage of the original situation, like 1/10 of IC and MP in the moment of war breaking up?
    I just hope there is some sort of limit on how big an army Governments in Exile can build.

    Polish forces in the West numbered around 200.000 at the end of the war, which would be what? 8-10 divisions? This is probably one of the largest forces an occupied nation had, so most nations should have much smaller contributions.

    I fear that Governments in Exile, like minors in HOI2, will over the course of the game be able to field 20 divisions or more. 5IC is alot over 5 years.

  2. #262
    EHko erakunde armatuko kidea rommel_sniper's Avatar
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    in hoi2 the number of division was enormous. Now is supposed that 200.000 men could be 100 brigades xD
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  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by rommel_sniper View Post
    in hoi2 the number of division was enormous. Now is supposed that 200.000 men could be 100 brigades xD
    The number of divisions will stay stay roughly the same though, only now they are made up of multiple brigades

    Unless you put all brigades into seperate divisions of course.

  4. #264
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    Is it only me who realise that the minimap shows wrong place?
    By the way will this feature(GiE) moddable?

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by ElQuapo View Post
    I just hope there is some sort of limit on how big an army Governments in Exile can build.

    Polish forces in the West numbered around 200.000 at the end of the war, which would be what? 8-10 divisions? This is probably one of the largest forces an occupied nation had, so most nations should have much smaller contributions.

    I fear that Governments in Exile, like minors in HOI2, will over the course of the game be able to field 20 divisions or more. 5IC is alot over 5 years.
    Well, they will probably have a very small MP-growth. With this you can easily achieve a softcap for units they can field, especially as already fieldes divisions use some of the MP-growth for themself.

  6. #266
    anyone answer to me ?)

  7. #267
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    I believe Yugoslavia will have GiE in London but (I hope) communist partizans will be handled by events. I doubt the engine can handle Yugoslavian civil war.

  8. #268
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    How do you simulate splits in GiE and Partisant Movement?
    1. Poland:
    - West (max 250k) with controll over resistance movement in Poland (max 500k)
    - East (commies) up to 250k at the of the war
    2. Greece
    - commies - largest movement - rebels and fights with govern, UK sends troops to fight them.
    3. Yugoslavia - everybody knows how it looked
    ...Can You hear the howling?...


  9. #269
    Stuck on the dark continent! Driggsd's Avatar
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    Maybe some of the Rebels will be for different freedom movements, trying to capitalize on the current situation. It seems that if there is a releasable nation, then there could be partisans for that nation. But maybe the GIX only gets controll of those partisans that want it back?
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  10. #270
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    I mean in EU3 paradox introduces rebels with a cause. They might have something simmilar for HOI3. If the soviets invest in unrest in German occupied Yugo, then it seems reasonable the partisans who spring up will be Communist leaning.
    "I've often started off with a lawyer joke, a complete caricature of a lawyer who's been nasty, greedy, and unethical. But I've stopped that practice. I gradually realized that the lawyers in the audience didn't think the jokes were funny and the non-lawyers didn't know they were jokes." Chief Justice William Rehnquist

    An armed man is a citizen, and unarmed man is a subject.

    "He's a Lawyer and a Super Villian! Thats like a shark with a grenade launcher!"

    I will not "just give peace a chance". It had its chance, and it failed. Time to cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war.

  11. #271
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    Very nice!
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  12. #272
    grey i dont understand your comment about yugoslavia..

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiLaNcHoS View Post
    grey i dont understand your comment about yugoslavia..
    I mean the nr of independent movements often fighting with each other. National, ideolodical etc
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavian_partisans
    OTOH:
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    "There are four types of "rebels" in hoi3.. partisans, disorganised rabble, nationalists and patriots.. all appearing for various reasons "
    ...Can You hear the howling?...


  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by GCZ View Post
    - CZE is given the option (i.e. is forced) to accept the Munich Treaty and to cease the so called Sudetenland to Germany, but that doesn't mean that the remnant of the CZE would cease to have it as its core provinces

    - by accepting the Treaty, it will remain as a part of the Allies faction, by denying it, it will be punished and removed from the faction (in order to simulate that no help will come once the UK and FRA agreed with the terms of the Munich Treaty)

    - then 15th March 1939 comes and German units come with it to occupy the rest of the Bohemia and Moravia, Slovakia claims independence and becomes to be a German puppet afterwards, the rest of the CZE regular government (i.e. player or AI) is now given and option to capitulate or to continue as ExGov in London, this will enhance the gameplay of both GER and CZE because CZE will be able to perform actions as the other ExGovs (e.g. support partisans etc.) and GER will be able to choose its policy towards the remaining part of Czechoslovakia (so called "Protektorat Böhmen und Mähren") and install a collaborative government in there, for example (which will also have effects on resource gains, partisanship level etc. on that territory)

    - when the war starts, the CZE ExGov can organize its own foreign military units, first in Poland (where in real some of them fought alongside the Poles and then escaped through Romania)

    - and this is as I think the most important contribution:
    West: Czechs organized already in France 1940 the 1st Czechoslovak Division, after the defeat of the French army, Czech soldiers escaped and served in Syria and Lebanon campaigns as well as in the besieged Tobruk (Czechoslovak 11th Infantry Battalion - East), then they formed 1st Czechoslovak Independent Brigade, in 1943 reorganized to 1st Czechoslovak Armoured Brigade, which besieged Dunkirk in 1944 and 1945, also not to forget the air forces: Czechs formed 3 fighter squadrons (310th, 312th, 313th) and 1 bomber squadron (311th) in Britain (and fought also during the famous Battle of Britain)
    East: from the Czech diaspora and persons released from Soviet Gulags, CZE firstly formed 1st Czechoslovakian Independent Field Battalion (the most famous battle of Sokolovo), then 1st Czechoslovakian Independent Brigade (played a key role in the liberation of Kiev in 1943), which was in April 1944 reorganized into a whole 1st Czechoslovak Army Corps (which consisted of 3 infantry brigades, 1 armored brigade and 1 parachute brigade and has its own Czech air cover provided by 1 air force mixed division and 1 fighter regiment).


    Thats giving in the end of war altogether 2 armored brigades, 3 infantry brigades, 1 parachute brigade, 4 squadrons and more than a air force division. I think this is force which really should not be ignored...

    I see your point that it is much more simple to allow ExGov only in case when a certain country is at war first. But I hope that the importance of the CZE ExGov (which I tried to illustrate here in several points) is on such level both for history and for the game purposes, that it should be included in the game. I know that every feature in the game has its own technical difficulties and level, but cannot the existence of the CZE ExGov be simply reached by an event which would be joined to the event of "the Czechoslovakia partitioning"? With all those possibilities and improvements that HOI3 is giving us, this one would allow players to play for CZE even after its partitioning and after the war to restore the state in its pre-Munich borders (so simply doing something as can be done with Poland, France, Norway, Yugoslavia etc. etc.). I only hope you will take this into consideration...

    Thanks for reading,
    GordonCZ
    I really fail to see where the wuss is (besides the nationalistic point of pride). As far as I see it, CZE shall be given the choice, both at the Munich event, and again at the end of Czechoslovakia event, between the historical submitting or ahistorical defiance. If they choose the latter, they shall be invaded. If this starts WWII, they shall again get the choice between total surrender and ongoing defiance, and the latter shall get a GiE like Poland and Free France. If invasion does not start WWII, it is correct that they do not get a GiE, since it means the Western powers continue appeasement, and their support for anti-German Czech dissidents shall be trivial and insufficient to maintain any meaningful GiE.

    Even if war starts later, the resources those dissidents they can scrounge after the fact from exiles or diaspora shall never be anywhere close to the ones that a nation that can GiE during the war can savage from the defeat. GiE exist to model Poland and Free France, basically, and both could field much more substantial resources than a couple brigades. Killing one Nazi top dog and fielding a couple brigades frankly is not sufficient to disrupt the proper historical execution of the End of Czechoslovakia and proper integration of Bohemia-Moravia in Germany and Hungary or pupper Slovakia as cores and not occupied territory. If war had not erupted between Britain and Germany, Benes would have languished in exile and obscurity and insignificance, much like the Spanish Republican GiE did.

    Moreover, besides historical realism, as a Germanophile, I very much appreciate the decision/event possibility to integrate Bohemia-Moravia as cores in Germany, since this allows me to play ahistorical situations and mods where there is a successful assimilation of Bohemia-Moravia in Greater Germany. Same reasoning for Danzig/Corridor/Poznan cores in Poland.
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  15. #275
    About the whole GiE feature, I gladly acknowledge that they are a great opportunity to model stuff like Polish and Free French Allied forces. However, I'm deeply annoyed and disturbed by the "zombie GiE" fact that, once they are in place, there is no way to get rid of them, and create a puppet govenment, short of completely destroying the faction that they are aligned to. This is ridiculous IMO.

    Support for them should wax and wane according to the fortunes of the faction they are tied to, but not the point that Germany or Russia have to conquer all the Allies or NATO countries in order to get rid of one pathetic European GiE. As the faction they are allied to keeps getting more and more defeats, support for the GiE should decrease, up to a threshold where the GiE effectively loses any significant support in the occupied country and falls into obscurity and insignificance, ceasing to exist as a meaningful entiy and freeing up the tag for the occupying faction. In other words, if Germany did manage to maintain control over all of continental Europe, BP the USSR, and occupy Britain, in all likelihood partisan movements in Europe would have dwindled to insignificance, even if a nominal state of (cold) war had persisted with the USA, and the overwhelmingly majority fo the population would have transferred their (reluctant) allegiance to the puppet government authority, legitimizing it, and reducing a GiE to the level of a trivial political curio, like the anti-communist Polish GiE or anti-fascist Spanish GiE that nominally existed for decades.

    Therefore, some kind of counter should exist for GiE, if the military fortunes (number of VP or IC they keep, or troops they can field, or a mix of the above) of the faction they are tied to, fall below a certain point, an event should fire that disbands them, and frees up the tag for the occupying faction's puppet government. Please please developers, do not make so that Germany or Russia has to conquer whole frigging USA (or hacking save files or modding surrender events) in order to get rid of one stupid zombie GiE in Europe, it would be just too annoying and boring.
    Last edited by Irioth; 17-04-2009 at 04:15.
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  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Porkman View Post
    Also, will we get a dev diary about how the Chinese situation is modeled?
    I agree. After playing HOI2 and following Doomsday, I'm a bit disappointed about the playability as China in the game.

    What the development team seriously neglected was the fact that China suffered 12~18million loss of population which accounts for 1/5 of world's total casualty. WWII in China's battlefiled pinned a great percentage of Jap troops, consumed Jap's usable resources and thus slowed down its invasion in far east and the Pacific.

    As I was playing HOI2, no matter which coutry I play, the message box would eventually pop up saying Communist China is destroyed by Jap around 1940. This is a bit ridiculous. I'm not saying Communist China was invincible judging from China's current strength and prosperity, but victory of war in China cannot simply be a matter of tons of armour or tech of weapon. Jap was pushed back to sea for a reason and this has to be modelled reasonably in the game.

    Even though there weren't panzer divisions on the frontline, no decent tech teams , Chinese's spirit of holding as unity meant something. This can at least represented by ultra high partizan activity in occupied provnices or high levels of intelligence or the outstanding ability to gather troops (militia at early stage). There were many other ideas evolved when I played. Here's a just a few examples.

    I've been paying attention since the 1st dd of HOI3 and of course its followups, but there was hardly any info regarding China in WWII. China's where The art of war by SunZi originated. China was also winner of WWII no matter whicn faction it belonged to. So I think development of China's role in HOI3 worths more people hours to be put in, at least in the balancing between the outnumbered underdog and despicable facist.

  17. #277
    Can we kill the exile goverments it may be useful to get rid of them cause they support partisans they maniplate etc?

  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizy45 View Post
    Can we kill the exile goverments it may be useful to get rid of them cause they support partisans they maniplate etc?
    You mean the host country to "kill" them? Why they will do this?
    If you are talking about the enemy, I can't imagine a why in which they can do this.
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  19. #279
    Slave to the wishes ofthe many pizza de oveja's Avatar

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    Will they have political afiliations?
    When eastern europe gets overun by the comunists what will happen with the legal Polish government in exile in london? Will it continue the fight as it happened historically?
    It could also be applied to an exile spanish "republican" government after the civil war. It would be insteresting to simulate the powers of the comintern and its influence over socialists and comunists all over europe. While this have been negated in most historical books about the period it is so obvious it was that way that it deserves to be included in a any game attempting to simulate WWII.
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