• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
We had events for those examples in HoI2 and we'll have events for those examples in HoI3.

My point was that events aren't flexible :)

Is national unity a possible trigger for events actually? That would make those events more realistic.

Another thing that would help is having manpower and equipment losses to divisions have an influence on national unity as well. It wouldn't be a straightforward relation though.
For example Russia losing 10MP (10.000 men) might not make any difference, but 10MP for Luxemburg is a lot.
 
Well all your examples are outside the game's time frame.

Dear King, it seems to me that Paradox has made a clear choice on the peace treaties. This choice looks to many people a big step back justified because the engine was (and is) not able to deal with something more complex then the simple all round war.
Somebody else agree with your decision and he is happy.

My personal opinion is that your decision doesn't account for all the cases in which you have a limited war (like in Victoria the colonial wars). As I understand that (at this point of the development process) even if you recognize to be wrong you cannot revert your choice I would like to ask you a question. Could you please leave the war/peace treaties moddable?
 
Dear King, it seems to me that Paradox has made a clear choice on the peace treaties. This choice looks to many people a big step back justified because the engine was (and is) not able to deal with something more complex then the simple all round war.
Somebody else agree with your decision and he is happy.

My personal opinion is that your decision doesn't account for all the cases in which you have a limited war (like in Victoria the colonial wars). As I understand that (at this point of the development process) even if you recognize to be wrong you cannot revert your choice I would like to ask you a question. Could you please leave the war/peace treaties moddable?

There is no limited war like the Victoria colonial war. Limited wars are limited by participation not objective. In Hearts of Iron 3 the German assault on the Soviet Union is a limited war.
 
In Hearts of Iron 3 the German assault on the Soviet Union is a limited war.

What about their Axis allies?
 
Well,there were some cases,although I dont know if they happened during WW2,in the 20th century were some states would fight at one place and would have low relations,but they wouldnt wage an all-out war.
 
We had events for those examples in HoI2 and we'll have events for those examples in HoI3.

But why would you want to do that? Clearly, someone at Paradox must love the heaps of abuse in whiny threads about broken surrender events.

As for Japan losing, frankly, let's not pretend like HoI3 AI will be so brilliant that Japan will have no hope of winning :rolleyes:

I assume that the system is also built on the assumption that under no circumstances will Japan be able to win in China?

My point is that the system you designed, besides relying on events where a system is a more appropriate, is also completely unprepared to deal with Japanese victory in any theater (thanks for agreeing that Tojo & Co. didn't have a world domination fantasy like Hitler). This being a game with a minute possibility of an ahistorical outcome in the Pacific, that's just poor design.
 
But why would you want to do that? Clearly, someone at Paradox must love the heaps of abuse in whiny threads about broken surrender events.

As for Japan losing, frankly, let's not pretend like HoI3 AI will be so brilliant that Japan will have no hope of winning :rolleyes:

I assume that the system is also built on the assumption that under no circumstances will Japan be able to win in China?

My point is that the system you designed, besides relying on events where a system is a more appropriate, is also completely unprepared to deal with Japanese victory in any theater (thanks for agreeing that Tojo & Co. didn't have a world domination fantasy like Hitler). This being a game with a minute possibility of an ahistorical outcome in the Pacific, that's just poor design.

Considering the system is doing exactly what we intend it to it is not broken. Now it's not my fault you can't grasp this rather simple concept. However it is enitrely prepared to deal with a Japanese Victory against the US as the Japan would be required to actually phisically invade the US to achieve. If Japan then wants to release the US as a puppet afterwards that's their business.
 
Considering the system is doing exactly what we intend it to it is not broken. Now it's not my fault you can't grasp this rather simple concept. However it is enitrely prepared to deal with a Japanese Victory against the US as the Japan would be required to actually phisically invade the US to achieve. If Japan then wants to release the US as a puppet afterwards that's their business.

The new system is an improvement over the HoI2 system (with it's victory points), that's for sure.

The system works in case of:
- the defender having allies when losing
OR
- the attacker wanting it all (or too much at least) and winning.

So the only example I can find during the time period is the Finnish winter war, since it didn't have allies and lost and the attacker didn't want it all and won. So, would it be worthwhile to have a system which covers such a situation?
 
The new system is an improvement over the HoI2 system (with it's victory points), that's for sure.

The system works in case of:
- the defender having allies when losing
OR
- the attacker wanting it all (or too much at least) and winning.

So the only example I can find during the time period is the Finnish winter war, since it didn't have allies and lost and the attacker didn't want it all and won. So, would it be worthwhile to have a system which covers such a situation?

The system can accomidate this the same way the HoI2 system did.
 
You can't have events for ... Sweden vs Finland where Sweden only wants a few border provinces though :)

Of course, we're talking 'ahistorical peace' after an 'ahistorical war'...

You are quite right there, we designed a historical system for a historical war. I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make here?
 
You are quite right there, we designed a historical system for a historical war. I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make here?

So, for what I understand, the only way of having ahistorical wars with limited conquest (not total war to the end), is when you mod an event or chain of events that ends the war once the conditions you define are met
am I right?
 
So, for what I understand, the only way of having ahistorical wars with limited conquest (not total war to the end), is when you mod an event or chain of events that ends the war once the conditions you define are met
am I right?

correct
 

which is OK; there will be dozens of alternate reality mods developed, each designed to have a more realistic ahistorical war path for the particular regional war we want to create.

Lets say we want a south american regional war, it might be better to disable the world war 2 chain of event and make Germany an ally to Argentina while Brazil is allied to the US, with a chain of events that declare limited war so neither the US nor Germany get directly involved but provide licenses/ support.
 
which is OK; there will be dozens of alternate reality mods developed, each designed to have a more realistic ahistorical war path for the particular regional war we want to create.

Lets say we want a south american regional war, it might be better to disable the world war 2 chain of event and make Germany an ally to Argentina while Brazil is allied to the US, with a chain of events that declare limited war so neither the US nor Germany get directly involved but provide licenses/ support.

Well apart from not getting limited wars right the gme is easily modded. A limtied war by a member of the Azis launched on a member of the allies leveas that Axis member at war with the Allies on it's own.
 

THAT was my point, that in those cases the current system doesn't fit and the only way to do something is to create new events :)

But I realize that talking about a system adopted to handle ahistorical outcomes of ahistorical wars might be hard to do and not seem worthwhile..

Just a thought, but couldn't something be done with the revolter tags from HoI2? There you have 'required provinces' and 'extra provinces' when releasing a country. If you add the ability to 'tag' provinces which you want to keep after conquest (like the provinces Russia kept after pushing the Fins hard enough), you can use the "required provinces" and "extra" lists to determine if a 'white peace' is possible (since in a white peace you keep the provinces you have claims on if you've conquered them, then you'd also keep those you don't have claims on but have 'tagged').

'Tagged' provinces wouldn't be same as claimed ones (in which you get 100% of the resources) of course, they would always be considered 'occupied' :)

You would use the 'extra provinces' list as 'provinces a country might give up, given enough incentive (ie the more you want, the lower you need to get their national unity before they even consider a white peace, if you get the country to surrender you can release it, but keep the provinces you tagged) and the 'required provinces' list as 'provinces without which a certain country cannot possible exist' (ie if you want any of those, the country will fight to the death and you'll have to occupy it entirely, you cannot release the country even after it completely surrenders unless you give up those tags).
 
THAT was my point, that in those cases the current system doesn't fit and the only way to do something is to create new events :)

But I realize that talking about a system adopted to handle ahistorical outcomes of ahistorical wars might be hard to do and not seem worthwhile..

Just a thought, but couldn't something be done with the revolter tags from HoI2? There you have 'required provinces' and 'extra provinces' when releasing a country. If you add the ability to 'tag' provinces which you want to keep after conquest (like the provinces Russia kept after pushing the Fins hard enough), you can use the "required provinces" and "extra" lists to determine if a 'white peace' is possible (since in a white peace you keep the provinces you have claims on if you've conquered them, then you'd also keep those you don't have claims on but have 'tagged').

'Tagged' provinces wouldn't be same as claimed ones (in which you get 100% of the resources) of course, they would always be considered 'occupied' :)

You would use the 'extra provinces' list as 'provinces a country might give up, given enough incentive (ie the more you want, the lower you need to get their national unity before they even consider a white peace, if you get the country to surrender you can release it, but keep the provinces you tagged) and the 'required provinces' list as 'provinces without which a certain country cannot possible exist' (ie if you want any of those, the country will fight to the death and you'll have to occupy it entirely, you cannot release the country even after it completely surrenders unless you give up those tags).

No