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I don't think so. But, intention or not, they didn't and this is an actual fact that countradicts the current setup of HOI3.
No it doesn't, If the territory gained from the peace are Soviet cores it will be very possible to get them with the kind of peacetreaty that have been mentioned.
 
Indeed, this does seem a step backward. :confused:

I concur.

In real life the Soviets no doubt wanted to conquer all of Finland, as they tried this twice and had been preparing to do so since the mid-30s. The only reason they didn't do so was because the Finns kept defeating them until they gave up the idea of total conquest and went for a far less steep approach. The result was a some war reparations and a bit of territory ceded to the Soviets with Finland keeping her independence and ideologies.

Though this may be the only direct such case in WWII (other countries that ended up ceding territory became puppets of the aggressor - or totally occupied), I still think the traditional way of demanding territory via peace deals etc. should be kept in.
 
...I still think the traditional way of demanding territory via peace deals etc. should be kept in.

Alas, good sir, it shall not be.

We can only wait and try the demo once it arrives, and then see what we think to the system. I shall certainly have to try the demo first, though. I'm not blindly buying another Paradox game; not after Rome.

Still, good things come to those who wait. ;)
 
Ive never played any HOI game before, but after reading the dev diaries and watching previews Im really excited about this game! But I have to say that leaving out peace negotiations isnt a very good idea. Sure there will be events that give peace, and these sound really cool, but surely there wont be events for every eventuality?

Say you are playing as finland, and you manage to repel the russian invasion. If the russians are also fighting germany, you might actually be able to advance into russian land without much opposition. As finland it must be immposible to fully annex or even set up a puppet government in the SU just because you wouldnt have enough men to enforce it, so all you can hope for is mabey annexing some of the russian provs that border finland. As for the russians, they dont want to pull their armies away from the front lines against germany, or they could be overun. So surely its in both countries interests to cede a few provinces? As I understand it, there wouldnt be peace until the finnish had occupied loets of SU provs and seriously reduced their national unity... So surely peace negotiations would really help in this situation?

Like I said Im a complete noob to HOI, so if Ive misunderstood anything please correct me, but this is just how I understand the system will work from what I've seen.
 
Look at this clarification again:
Just to clarify.. there is a "sign peace" option that signs a status quo peace for occupied claims.. but that is basically not valid in the big ww2 war.

Soviet will be able to get their cores/claims from Finland via peace treaties, and Finland will still be able to sign a white peace, or if they do have cores/claims on Soviet territory get those via a signed peace.

This is confirmed to be in HoI3.
 
As I understand it, there wouldnt be peace until the finnish had occupied loets of SU provs and seriously reduced their national unity... So surely peace negotiations would really help in this situation?

Like I said Im a complete noob to HOI, so if Ive misunderstood anything please correct me, but this is just how I understand the system will work from what I've seen.

Nope, there would be some other options available.

First, you can make white peace, bringing back the situation from before the war or, if you have under control any core (core being your national) provinces that were previously owned by your opponent, gaining them as well.

Otherwise, if such option won't work (and there is a good chance it won't, as Soviet AI might be stubborn) you can just pray for Germans to win, helping them as much as possible.

Last, but not least, if conditions around will suit historical situation close enough, there is a good chance for event to fire and give you historical choices - things like making peace, switching alliances and such.

So no, it's not as bad as some people paint it. But of course, it's somehow feeling like LESS then it was in HoI2 and most of the strategy players react alergically on any functionality reductions. ;)
 
Look at this clarification again:

Soviet will be able to get their cores/claims from Finland via peace treaties, and Finland will still be able to sign a white peace, or if they do have cores/claims on Soviet territory get those via a signed peace.

This is confirmed to be in HoI3.

So even if finland is managing to win the war they cant annex provinces unless they have cores on them?
 
So even if finland is managing to win the war they cant annex provinces unless they have cores on them?
Yes they can occupy them still though as long as they can hold them and the war is still on.

But I doubt Stalins pride in reality would have allowed giving away any territory in a peace to Finland unless they had really solid claims on them. White peace would be a good deal for both, and is possible.


As I understand Johans clarification the "sign peace" option will allow you to return to prewar borders, with the exception of cores/claims that you controll that you get to keep. The same should apply to your enemy if he is controlling or occupying any of your territory that he have claims or cores on.

So if Soviet have claims for Karelia (Viborg + Sortavala) and occupies these they can sign a peace where Finland have to give up those.


My conclusion is thus that a perfectly historical winter war is possible in HoI3 without any events at all, granted Soviet have these claims.
 
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It's not a problem to use italian fascist symbolics in game - only banned ones are swastikas and such, because of the laws in Germany regarding those.

No, I think he means it's incorrect symbolism.

That symbol was associated with Italian fascism (and the French Republic, strangely), not National Socialism, which had its own - largely illegal, as you say - symbolism.
 
No, I think he means it's incorrect symbolism.

That symbol was associated with Italian fascism (and the French Republic, strangely), not National Socialism, which had its own - largely illegal, as you say - symbolism.

And I explained why incorrect symbolism is used. :D

When I first fired HoI1 and noticed Germany have Kaiser flag I was confused too, so I understand his comment.
 
My conclusion is thus that a perfectly historical winter war is possible in HoI3 without any events at all, granted Soviet have these claims.

I agree that the system would work if things happened historically. My only problem is if things dont happen as they did historically then playing without peace negotiations seems to seriously limit what you can do with a minor country. It seems the best finland can hope for is a white peace...
 
It seems the best finland can hope for is a white peace...
Does anyone seriouslly think democratic Finland can hope or want anything more than a white peace against Soviet without going Axis and allying Germany? If they align fully towards Germany then Finland should get any ground they hold upon annexation or peace by event.
 
If you are so unhappy over a lack of peace option then imagine how Hitler must have felt ;)

If fore example you would invade the US, there is no way what so ever that it would be realistic to conclude a peace. The people would fight with pitchforks if they had to.

It would seem that HoI3 is going to be more cruel and harch in every way (maybe inspired by the great World in Flames mod?) so people can't just steamroll the world as in vanilla HoI2.

It's the same for the small fraction of people who complain about the number of provinces "How will my Japanese army now going to hold every single US province?" The point is, you are not supposed to.

Maybe they have been inspired by DEFCON: Everybode Dies. The only way to win as Germany is to stay in peace ^^

Of course it is still possible to rule the world, but it should be an excercise in frustration as guess what? People don't like to be ruled over by you.

Yes it's first and foremost a game and as a game meant to be fun to play, but I also think that Paradox has a duty not to delude people into thinking "I could have ruled the world if I was Hitler". Germany was doomed not because Hitler was a poor strategist, but for reasons too many to list here and I think they want as to remember that.
 
My conclusion is thus that a perfectly historical winter war is possible in HoI3 without any events at all, granted Soviet have these claims.

First, I agree, a winter war in HoI3 would work out without any events.

Secondly, what would happen if a Russian player wanted more then what it got historically? Those provinces Russia took weren't exactly provinces Russia had legal claims on. They wanted those to be able to protect Leningrad and some islands in the Baltic Sea for safety. So they were actually occupying those lands.
The Fins gave away that much (it was a fairly industrialized part of Finland), how much more would they have given in return for peace?

You could say that Finland would never have given away provinces on which Russia didn't have claims. But they didn't exactly have claims IRL on the ones they did get, they have claims on them ingame because that is what they got IRL.

The way HoI3 works now is absolutely PERFECT for the european countries that Germany took over after Poland. You have to occupy them, they keep on fighting because they are in the allies. It fits everything that happened historically in WW2.

What happens when the allies don't guarantee the independance of Poland? This can be done too with the engine, you can get a white peace and still get the provinces you got claims on.
It works as long as the winning country has claims on the losing country, the winning country is able to get those claims.

What happens when you go to war with a country (without allies) on which you have no historical claims but go to war because you want to capture only certain strategic provinces? (Finland is actually an example of this)
 
First, I agree, a winter war in HoI3 would work out without any events.

Secondly, what would happen if a Russian player wanted more then what it got historically? Those provinces Russia took weren't exactly provinces Russia had legal claims on. They wanted those to be able to protect Leningrad and some islands in the Baltic Sea for safety. So they were actually occupying those lands.
The Fins gave away that much (it was a fairly industrialized part of Finland), how much more would they have given in return for peace?

You could say that Finland would never have given away provinces on which Russia didn't have claims. But they didn't exactly have claims IRL on the ones they did get, they have claims on them ingame because that is what they got IRL.

The way HoI3 works now is absolutely PERFECT for the european countries that Germany took over after Poland. You have to occupy them, they keep on fighting because they are in the allies. It fits everything that happened historically in WW2.

What happens when the allies don't guarantee the independance of Poland? This can be done too with the engine, you can get a white peace and still get the provinces you got claims on.
It works as long as the winning country has claims on the losing country, the winning country is able to get those claims.

What happens when you go to war with a country (without allies) on which you have no historical claims but go to war because you want to capture only certain strategic provinces? (Finland is actually an example of this)


maybe next dev diary would tell us about fabricating claims and so :). On the other hand, I think there are several ways of achieving what you ask:
1- You invade and shatter the country. Keep which provinces you like (total exploitation or whatever kind of stuff is possible and you like) and liberate the rest (I am expecting to be able to choose provinces to keep when liberating).
2- Invade the provinces you want, then start bombing the country to stone age while destroying their convoys and doing other malicious stuff except taking more provinces. Thus, you can get the target country to sign a status quo peace. If I understood right, status quo peace is not white peace, but everybody keeping what they have on the moment of peace.

Or I am completely wrong and there is no way to do what you asked. There should be though.
 
maybe next dev diary would tell us about fabricating claims and so :). On the other hand, I think there are several ways of achieving what you ask:
1- You invade and shatter the country. Keep which provinces you like (total exploitation or whatever kind of stuff is possible and you like) and liberate the rest (I am expecting to be able to choose provinces to keep when liberating).
2- Invade the provinces you want, then start bombing the country to stone age while destroying their convoys and doing other malicious stuff except taking more provinces. Thus, you can get the target country to sign a status quo peace. If I understood right, status quo peace is not white peace, but everybody keeping what they have on the moment of peace.

Or I am completely wrong and there is no way to do what you asked. There should be though.

Good points but I don't think those have been confirmed. I don't know if you can liberate a country without certain provinces (can you in EUIII?) or if you keep what you have occupied or only what you have claims on :)
 
Good points but I don't think those have been confirmed. I don't know if you can liberate a country without certain provinces (can you in EUIII?) or if you keep what you have occupied or only what you have claims on :)

Nah, none is confirmed. I am only speculating, but not without a cause. The "spirit" of the game until now and putting myself in the place of a game designer/programmer of HoI3, I come to some conclusions. At least one of the two options that I told would be in the game in my opinion.

You cannot keep provinces while liberating in EUIII but that does not mean it will not be in HoI3 either.

On the other hand, in a previous dev diary, didn't Johan tell that one of the unique advantages of the Axis faction is the ability to fabricate claims? Or am I just making stuff up?