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I call it Sheep Herd :D. You know: Sheep and Wolves. And the Shepherd (Seer) is absent. And the sheep have to find the infiltrators on their own. Funny, innit?

OTOH, I am not a big fan of RPing in WW.

I'd be up for that. Wait till I die in meso :p Though I have a nasty habit of dying night 0 after I win a game, so that shouldn't be a problem

And I agree about the RPing. I'd rather focus on the analysis.
 
The old Lite setup had become unbalanced, with JLs dominant and wolves winning every now and then when they got the seer early.

I don't think that the Lite setup (12 villagers, 1 seer, 4 wolves) has become unbalanced recently.
I think it has been unbalanced all the time.

In a sufficient active and analyzing village, which doesn't do stupid things like tie-making, being zombies, making fake-outings (by villagers) the wolves don't have a chance, unless the seer is hunted early in the game.

The only reason that it didn't work out that way (massive wins of goodies), was because villagers weren't analyzing, favoured stupid ties, lots of fake-outings by villagers, big zombie-ism and spammism.

That was for me reason to stop playing Lite.

BTW : It shouldn't be a surprise. Maffia recommends also a 12/1/4 set-up for a balanced game. But in that game players aren't allowed to communicate in private (except the wolves). And that makes a huge difference.

So Lite is dead for me, unfortunately Meso doesn't seem attractive for me too.
 
The only reason that it didn't work out that way (massive wins of goodies), was because villagers weren't analyzing, favoured stupid ties, lots of fake-outings by villagers, big zombie-ism and spammism. So Lite is dead for me

Although there's been an uptick in them since many of the old timers came back, most of the things you've got a problem with don't happen anymore, except spam. Which while it can be distracting, doesn't actually affect the game's outcome.
 
In a sufficient active and analyzing village, which doesn't do stupid things like tie-making, being zombies, making fake-outings (by villagers) the wolves don't have a chance, unless the seer is hunted early in the game.

Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

Have people really forgoten how to play Lite since I was a Lite regular player? The seventeen player 4 wolves setup was found to be almost 50/50 in terms of goodie baddie wins back when we had competent players. Any problems with it now are, as I said, related to people not having a clue how to play.

4 wolves is plenty. If anything, I would argue that setup favors the baddies a bit. That is of course assuming competent wolfplay.
 
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

Have people really forgoten how to play Lite since I was a Lite regular player? The seventeen player 4 wolves setup was found to be almost 50/50 in terms of goodie baddie wins back when we had competent players. Any problems with it now are, as I said, related to people not having a clue how to play.

4 wolves is plenty. If anything, I would argue that setup favors the baddies a bit. That is of course assuming competent wolfplay.

We've resorted to nanny-GMing. People don't trust the players to be competent anymore, so we all rely on the special roles instead of individual insight.
 
Aye, when I were a lad, and men were real men, and wolves were real wolves, we had t' right proper WW games. We had t' big names, we had t' guts and t' skill. We were t' Sherlocks and t' Machiavellis!

/Four Yorkshiremen sketch.
 
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

Have people really forgoten how to play Lite since I was a Lite regular player? The seventeen player 4 wolves setup was found to be almost 50/50 in terms of goodie baddie wins back when we had competent players. Any problems with it now are, as I said, related to people not having a clue how to play.

4 wolves is plenty. If anything, I would argue that setup favors the baddies a bit. That is of course assuming competent wolfplay.

Define competent wolf play. Because at the moment we're running at 2 goodie wins to every 1 baddie win, with the wolves only winning if they hunt the seer before it's too late. How are the wolves supposed to counter it? They've tried IJLs, and the village have destroyed them. They've tried finding the seer, and normally fail. Even on the occaisions they have, they sometimes fail because enough scans have happened to screw them. They've tried hunting mouthpieces, only to find they weren't scanned JL members. And anybody who uses the wild and erratic play that favours the wolves is punished for it, so they can't hide there either.

AVN's analysis was perfect. People have forgotten how to play werewolf the way you used to, and the result is overwhelming dominance of the JL, because villagers are no longer screwing things up. And this is making villagers complacent.

@Athalcor: I mentioned it in the Meso thread, but I'll do so here also. My original proposal was to replace the seer with a GA. That would suit a shepperd perfectly for your theme.
 
Define competent wolf play. Because at the moment we're running at 2 goodie wins to every 1 baddie win, with the wolves only winning if they hunt the seer before it's too late. How are the wolves supposed to counter it? They've tried IJLs, and the village have destroyed them. They've tried finding the seer, and normally fail. Even on the occaisions they have, they sometimes fail because enough scans have happened to screw them. They've tried hunting mouthpieces, only to find they weren't scanned JL members. And anybody who uses the wild and erratic play that favours the wolves is punished for it, so they can't hide there either.

AVN's analysis was perfect. People have forgotten how to play werewolf the way you used to, and the result is overwhelming dominance of the JL, because villagers are no longer screwing things up. And this is making villagers complacent.

@Athalcor: I mentioned it in the Meso thread, but I'll do so here also. My original proposal was to replace the seer with a GA. That would suit a shepperd perfectly for your theme.

AOK did a good job of destroying the JL in the second Family game, but if he had picked a different target, he would have been destroyed. The fact his target for the IJL was the seer, and he outed the seer first, is what made it work.

But AVN and yourself do have good points. I suspect the wolf play has been lacking somewhat. We have had an influx of newer members into the game lately. Some are very good analyzers. And some games have been won just barely. An example would be the last Lite I played in as seer. I only scanned 1 wolf, but was fortunate to have most of the JL alive at the end and the wolves were the only ones left unscanned. If the hunts had gone differently, it would have been more difficult to find them. Analysis was nearly worthless in that they did a good job at covering their tracks.
 
I call it Sheep Herd :D. You know: Sheep and Wolves. And the Shepherd (Seer) is absent. And the sheep have to find the infiltrators on their own. Funny, innit?

OTOH, I am not a big fan of RPing in WW.
Baaaa! Lambs to the slaughter.
 
Werewolf CXIII : The Springtime of Nations

The Theme


Horace_Vernet-Barricade_rue_Soufflot.jpg


The year is 1848. The fires of revolution spread throughout Europe, with the rise of several political ideologies who seek to challenge the establishment. Propaganda has spread like malaria, and by now several political movements were formed to topple the governments and force reforms through force of arms. Barricades are raised, arms are distributed, and the governments steel themselves for the inevitable conflict. Who will get to make history? Embark on this journey to find out...
 
I'd prefer the smaller setup, might have less zombies. And we've had several zombie issues of late.

I'd prefer the larger, because it gives more time for analysis, and more wolves means more chance of noticing cooperation.

Although it has been like Dawn of the Dead around here lately.
 
To me, it seems as if Meso is too favored torwards the wolves.

Not sure exactly why. Meso I they could hunt each other, Meso II they couldn't...which seems like it would work in favor of the wolves. We've a couple of other options to explore in terms of rule tweaks.