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I need money for other things as well, so I am so in favour of this you have no idea.
Please no mass PMs or re-taking the OT by force. We are not spambots. We are better than that. Please, don't lower us to that level.
On a couple of the other forums I play on, some people try to do that. They may as well be offering me a chance to increase my penis size by up to five inches. I hate those spammers with a white-hot hatred. And remember... I know the product they're offering, and I like the product they're offering (unless it really is an increase to my penis size). They're offering me a chance to play, and that is why I am a member in that forum to begin with. But to spam my inbox with that shit is lower than what Pakistani malware propagators do; it is lower than what Nigerian phishermen do.
And the idea of squatting on the OT; just how long do you suppose that would last before we are banned from OT, and likely lose our subforum as well? Back when we were moved over here, or rather right before it, Blade! and Stonewall came down on us rather hard because approximately half of the first page on OT had "Werewolf" in the title. The two WW games, a WW discussion thread, WW statistics, WW hall of infamy, it goes on and on and on. And because we are so active, all these threads never fell to the second page. So they told us to limit it to one thread, and any violation would result in WW being banned forever. A couple of us interceded with Blade! and he set up this subforum. So, in effect, we didn't choose subforum over OT; we still have that one thread in OT, but we were gifted this subforum to continue to expand as much as the community required. If we don't use the one thread we have in OT, why would the mods be okay with us moving back over there and leaving this subforum dormant?
I play or have played in many other forums that have WW as a sideshow to the main theme of the forum. All of these forums have WW segregated in its own little area; none of them have to keep WW in any main area just to attract attention. What we have here is par for the course.
The ideas of spamming PMs or squatting on the OT forum rely on the idea that we will annoy, obfuscate, and interfere with 95% of the population; but since we can entice the other 5% to play, it would be worth it. We're not assholes. We're not telemarketers. We have principles. We have dignity.
On a couple of the other forums I play on, some people try to do that. They may as well be offering me a chance to increase my penis size by up to five inches. I hate those spammers with a white-hot hatred. And remember... I know the product they're offering, and I like the product they're offering (unless it really is an increase to my penis size). They're offering me a chance to play, and that is why I am a member in that forum to begin with. But to spam my inbox with that shit is lower than what Pakistani malware propagators do; it is lower than what Nigerian phishermen do.
And the idea of squatting on the OT; just how long do you suppose that would last before we are banned from OT, and likely lose our subforum as well? Back when we were moved over here, or rather right before it, Blade! and Stonewall came down on us rather hard because approximately half of the first page on OT had "Werewolf" in the title. The two WW games, a WW discussion thread, WW statistics, WW hall of infamy, it goes on and on and on. And because we are so active, all these threads never fell to the second page. So they told us to limit it to one thread, and any violation would result in WW being banned forever. A couple of us interceded with Blade! and he set up this subforum. So, in effect, we didn't choose subforum over OT; we still have that one thread in OT, but we were gifted this subforum to continue to expand as much as the community required. If we don't use the one thread we have in OT, why would the mods be okay with us moving back over there and leaving this subforum dormant?
I play or have played in many other forums that have WW as a sideshow to the main theme of the forum. All of these forums have WW segregated in its own little area; none of them have to keep WW in any main area just to attract attention. What we have here is par for the course.
The ideas of spamming PMs or squatting on the OT forum rely on the idea that we will annoy, obfuscate, and interfere with 95% of the population; but since we can entice the other 5% to play, it would be worth it. We're not assholes. We're not telemarketers. We have principles. We have dignity.
I did that just last game. Is this really the reason we've been driving away existing and potential players?
The first rule for getting yourself out of a hole is to stop digging. I'm offering us a plan for doing just that; this WW community is in the same straits it was back when Skarion hosted that stupid Austin Powah game (to his credit, Skarion had the sense not to blame it on not enough people noticing the game). If you are unconvinced that there is a problem, then keep digging.
Remember -- people who surf the Paradox forums are a high-probability population for surfing other forums that offer WW (or forums that are dedicated entirely to WW; it is no longer the novelty it was even 5 years ago). What do we offer here at the Paradox forum that they cannot get elsewhere? A few positives that I like about this forum include unrestricted private messaging, fast turnover of games, excellent camaraderie, and open-mindedness about rule tweaks. But I fear the negatives will repel those potential new recruits; negatives such as me pleading with players to vote with their heads, not their cocks (or so johho888 identified).
Food for thought; are our positives enough of an incentive to entice potential players to our forum and not the next URL down the block? What does everyone perceive as our negatives or shortcomings?
Ironhead, we simply do not get enough people to see Werewolf. Thats the problem.
That cannot be fixed without either contacting people directly or moving at least a game thread back to the OT. I fail to see the problem with either. I once got a PM invitation to another type of game on this forum. It did not anger me. A single message with some information and an invite is not spamming. I took a look, and decided the game was interesting but not for me, and thanked the person for the invite.
I never would have found Werewolf had I not seen it in the OT and thought "That looks interesting. I want to see what type of game that is". At the current time, Werewolf does not catch the eye of enough people because they never run across it.
I am sure there are plenty of people who would love the game if they tried it. I am thankful the game used to be in the OT and that I found it there. I fail to see how having a game thread in the OT or inviting people to take a look is such a bad thing. And I would not call that taking the OT by force. That's ludicrous.
That cannot be fixed without either contacting people directly or moving at least a game thread back to the OT. I fail to see the problem with either. I once got a PM invitation to another type of game on this forum. It did not anger me. A single message with some information and an invite is not spamming. I took a look, and decided the game was interesting but not for me, and thanked the person for the invite.
I never would have found Werewolf had I not seen it in the OT and thought "That looks interesting. I want to see what type of game that is". At the current time, Werewolf does not catch the eye of enough people because they never run across it.
I am sure there are plenty of people who would love the game if they tried it. I am thankful the game used to be in the OT and that I found it there. I fail to see how having a game thread in the OT or inviting people to take a look is such a bad thing. And I would not call that taking the OT by force. That's ludicrous.
We have the same problem that we had in June 2008. It has become a sclerotic, anemic game that will not attract people.
Resurrect the one thread we are allowed in OT. It will catch the eye of many people. Some will even poke their head into one of our games and see what it is all about. Perhaps a few will want to play.
How many of those will stick around to play even one game?
Of those, how many will play a second game?
You are delusional. Just because some people do not agree with your approach to playing does not mean the games are not good or the players suck. Kriszo's game was as good as any, We had all of our active players in and a simple setup. It was a superb game. Nobody is coming in here and then leaving because they do not like the way the village handles itself. The reality is that they are simply not coming in here period.
If you want to argue about voting strategy fine. But please, the game does not suck just because it is not played the way you want it to be played. People are not stupid or bad players ruining the game just because they agree with my approach and help me get information.
If you want to argue about voting strategy fine. But please, the game does not suck just because it is not played the way you want it to be played. People are not stupid or bad players ruining the game just because they agree with my approach and help me get information.
Your opinion has been duly noted. I am interested in hearing some other opinions as well.
Please don't feel you need to respond to this; no one wants to see this devolve into an indictment of your playing style.
This is the part where you do your best Thistletooth impersonation:
In addition, if you wish to indict me, then EURO is my co-defendant. His approach to the vote cycle is very much like mine. If he was referring to me in that quote, then he certainly has not done much to stop me if my style of play was a problem to him.
And finally, we will see if your hypothesis is correct. After this game I will probably have to take a break for a bit. Perhaps all these people that have been run off by my horrible, game destroying style of play will appear out of nowhere when I am gone. Perhaps now that they know there will be no vote switches they will all be ready and eager to become active Werewolf players.
...
:rofl:
Have a good weekend I5. And sub in for TNT if you have the time.
That is not how I remember it.
The only time I remember the werewolf community being warned (since I joined in early 08) was when Rysz posted on three werewolf threads (one starting lite, one ending lite and one big game). Blade! closed all three and we were reminded to keep only TWO, not one thread in the OT. That is, one lite and one regular. The reason most of us wanted a sub-forum was to have the ability to have threads dedicated to other werewolf related things, like we have now. Slinky's previous games thread, the WW FAQ, WD's GM guide, the hall of fame which was moved here from OT. When we were moved here, it was after your lobbying for this subforum was finally accepted.
We weren't forced here. We wanted it. We had asked for it. Just look in the WW Social Group for all the discussions we had. It's all recorded there from December 2008 to now.
Exactly -- it was either live within the confines of one thread in the OT forum; or live without boundaries here at the subforum with one thread at OT. That was how we wanted it -- to have more than just the one thread they were restricting us to.
I had a long response written wherein a compared the number of players in each big game since we started playing in this forum -- and then I clicked the wrong button and it disappeared into the ether forever.
But I want to make two points here; first, we were still getting games of 40 or more players even a year after the subforum opened. There were ebbs and flows; some games of 25 or less, followed abruptly by games of 35 or so. Reviewing these games, I am seeing the names of shitloads of rookies who have since disappeared: Eu_proof, Hellvink, FlooperX, Lalalilo, Jingles, PhilleP, tweek, Justinian_A, hebelecan, Anthraxus899, Kaiser90, Beamed, Fiskenheimer, Snow White, The Arch Mede, Yi0717, Jerard, NobleHelium, Calamity, Cymsdale, Xarkan, Emperor Walter, Saintis, Sudaxe, JDMS, Swedish_Tiger, Jasev, Catalion, angj57, Klaas, Velasco, Gabrielillo, yoenit, Cobalt Blue. New players were recruited into this subforum; the subforum is not the problem. The problem is we could not retain them.
Second point I want to make is that no one, especially not me, is suggesting the solution is to exile you, AOK. I only criticize our culture here because I would like to see it thrive; if it were a matter of me being grumpy about the way we play, I would just go play in any one of a number of other forums. I like playing WW in Paradox more than anywhere else -- and AOK. 11 is tied to that. The problem, as I've said repeatedly, is not the way AOK. 11 plays; it is the way we all react to the way he and others play. It is a cultural problem, unrelated to any one player.
No, no, that's not correct at all. We had EIGHT threads, or maybe it was NINE. Whatever it was, it was far too many, and Blade! locked up every single one of them. As I recall, after a couple of days he unlocked one so we could finish the big game. While we were finishing, a couple of us initiated negotiations with him to apologize and see what we could do to police ourselves. He indicated that he and Stonewall were trying to decide whether or not to ban WW entirely; in the face of possible extinction, we proposed a subforum. Blade! advocated for us and got us a subforum. All WW threads moved over to the subforum except for that one big WW game; when it ended, Blade! said we could keep one thread in OT, for advertising new games.
Remember the zeitgeist of the time; we were tapdancing on the last nerve of the mods. I distinctly recall a thread started by one of the OTers asking the mods to ban WW from OT, and it had overwhelming support - several pages of OTers clamoring for us to get the boot (not that we helped ourselves; I think the input that WWers had on that thread was "vote jonti", "no, vote Lemeard, heh heh")
No.
At least not since I've been here. Yes, there were few who wanted us out, but most were indifferent, and as long as we were limited to two threads, didn't much care for or against Werewolf in the OT.
There were a handful of people wanting us gone, not the vast majority which you describe. I think you may be remembering something which happened long before we got the subforum, something I was not around for, which is the quasi-werewolf game called... eh... I swear I had the name, it's dark something. Anyway, since I've been a member of the community, there've never been more than three threads about werewolf on the OT. We had the big, the lite, and the occasional discussion thread which quickly fell off the first page. It was just that one incident of Rysz posting in a lite that had just ended, posting in the lite that had started signup and the big game consecutively that made three werewolf threads appear at the very top of the OT forum that caused that shutdown. After that, we made it a rule to not post in a finished game once the new thread was up.
In fact, the only time there were ever more than three threads was when this guy whose name I forget made a thread advocating our removal from the OT. That's four. Nowhere near the EIGHT or NINE you clamour about. Most of us agree with you on most of your points, you don't need to make things up.
The following still play here from time to time:
Eu_proof, Hellvink, Jingles, PhilleP, tweek, Justinian_A, hebelecan, The Arch Mede, Yi0717, Jerard, Emperor Walter, Saintis, Sudaxe, JDMS.
About 40% of the names you listed.
I haven't seen Arch Mede since he gmed the No Dice big. He received a lot of complaints and I don't know if he has come back.