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Thread: Yugoslav Wars

  1. #5401
    Major Hogar's Avatar
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    JRHINDO, could we please have another naval unit type?
    Patrol Boats. I need at least two models please.
    Destroyers (bun boats). I need 3 models. One model is actually torpedo boats while other two are missile gun boats.

    I am guessing missiles are not an attachment but they are already build-in the stats, right?

  2. #5402
    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    JRHINDO, could we please have another naval unit type?
    Patrol Boats. I need at least two models please.
    Destroyers (bun boats). I need 3 models. One model is actually torpedo boats while other two are missile gun boats.
    I think this is best if you can do this alone, because then you will not waste time waiting JRHINDO response, because u never know how long you must wait his response (sometimes it takes an hour and sometimes week).


    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    I am guessing missiles are not an attachment but they are already build-in the stats, right?
    Am guessing too.

  3. #5403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    JRHINDO, could we please have another naval unit type?
    Patrol Boats. I need at least two models please.
    Destroyers (bun boats). I need 3 models. One model is actually torpedo boats while other two are missile gun boats.

    I am guessing missiles are not an attachment but they are already build-in the stats, right?
    I'd have to say no, sorry. I dont know what is Hax's exact position on this, but personally I want to keep the mod as realistic and detailed as possible while keeping it arcade enough to not be overly complex. So adding more ship models would make things too complicated than it should be, and I feel that it already is. Nothing personal, dont get mad, but I mean the whole YW is already super complex and obviously it would be a bad idea to murder 'more' the AI (i just got a scary chill just thinking about the naval warfare. I fear there will naval battles on the Danube!).

    But anyway why would you need those 3 models for?
    Quote Originally Posted by KnindzA View Post
    I think this is best if you can do this alone, because then you will not waste time waiting JRHINDO response, because u never know how long you must wait his response (sometimes it takes an hour and sometimes week).
    Well you know, I gotta balance school (which is half fail now) and try to do simultaneously 3 or 4 of the objectives I posted on last page!
    (Also have fun btw )

  4. #5404
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRHINDO View Post
    But anyway why would you need those 3 models for?
    I was looking at the models we have so far and I cannot see how to represent some of the ship types. Basically, I see 5 ship-types that fall under gun boats at the moment. We could move the largest once (missile gun missiles) to BBs. I am just about to post the complete JNA OOB so you will get the idea.

  5. #5405
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    Complete JNA OOB - [nearly]

    I've completed JNA OOB as much as I could.
    - fixed removed mountaineers
    - added airforce
    - added navy

    Navy: I ran into two issues:
    - Missing naval bases
    ** HAX, where are you upto with this?
    -- I can add them through INC file

    - I am unsure how to set up some of the ship types
    -- Since naval bases are not completed I've placed all the ships in Pula. They are grooped in fleets by types, e.g: Heroj class submarines, Koncar class gun boats, etc...
    ** JRHINDO please look at these and advise models for each.

    Airforce:
    - Missing airfields
    -- HAX, where are you upto with this?
    -- I can add them through INC file although I think we should use only military airfields or at least once that can land jets. No corn fields please...

    - Two models of helicopters: transport and attack.
    ** JRHINDO. How to best represent this? I've set them up as naval_planes with model 1 = transport and model 2 = attack. Is this good enough?

    - Only MiGs29 were set up as fighters. Other plane types were used by JNA as ground support due to being too obsolete.
    ** JRHINDO. MiG29 although fighters should have more devastating effect then any other plan type.

    ** JRHINDO. I think we need to make planes impossible to upgrade just as ships can't be upgraded.

    I'll paste files in my next post...

  6. #5406
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    Croatia OOB: Added police units to major cities and 4 mechanised units. These should be infantry at best but sources call them mechanised. Most likely we change this to infantry and upgrade through an event to mechanised later in the war. http://www.mediafire.com/?li83cc6ni4c51t0
    JNA OOB: http://www.mediafire.com/?6m06nl6c2y73u7n
    Last edited by Hogar; 04-12-2011 at 10:29.

  7. #5407
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    @Knindja, Hax
    Could you define list of national provinces for RSK and RS?
    For RSK, would infamous VKK line fit the case or something less ambitious?
    For RS, would whole BiH fit the case?

  8. #5408
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    I kept making changes. Here is a look at what RSK should look like on 01/06/1991.
    http://www.mediafire.com/i/?idkh2iroldg0cya
    Comments?

  9. #5409
    My Ni**a Hax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    I've completed JNA OOB as much as I could.
    - fixed removed mountaineers
    - added airforce
    - added navy

    Navy: I ran into two issues:
    - Missing naval bases
    ** HAX, where are you upto with this?
    -- I can add them through INC file

    - I am unsure how to set up some of the ship types
    -- Since naval bases are not completed I've placed all the ships in Pula. They are grooped in fleets by types, e.g: Heroj class submarines, Koncar class gun boats, etc...
    ** JRHINDO please look at these and advise models for each.

    Airforce:
    - Missing airfields
    -- HAX, where are you upto with this?
    -- I can add them through INC file although I think we should use only military airfields or at least once that can land jets. No corn fields please...

    - Two models of helicopters: transport and attack.
    ** JRHINDO. How to best represent this? I've set them up as naval_planes with model 1 = transport and model 2 = attack. Is this good enough?

    - Only MiGs29 were set up as fighters. Other plane types were used by JNA as ground support due to being too obsolete.
    ** JRHINDO. MiG29 although fighters should have more devastating effect then any other plan type.

    ** JRHINDO. I think we need to make planes impossible to upgrade just as ships can't be upgraded.

    I'll paste files in my next post...
    I will try answer on all your question but first I want to say that you and JRHINDO decides the boat types as I don't know much about the models or what it is called.

    Great job Hogar, really thank you!

    Naval: I have started to work on the ports. I have for Albania and Slovenia found and written on paper the province ID and the level of the ports they should have, I just need to write it in the .INC files. I will soon start to with the Bosnian ports(Sava river ports). But please if you have some more ports which I haven't listed now or in the future please notice me.
    As I said you and JRHINDO decide what models/types of ship we shall have, you have full control on that from me

    See the last post of this thread: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...505788-Albania

    Airports: Well I have done all airports for all countries except Serbia(+Vojvodina) and Bosnia. I will do that in the near future.
    Well when I started to look for airports JRHINDO said I should look also for dirt tracks(level 1 airports). He said that he could somehow do so that the AI doesn't land on the dirt tracks via having low re-org numbers. I know it's stupid that jets land on the plane soil without concrete but I just listened on jrhindos idea.

    This is how I have given levels to the airports + a example:
    1 - dirt tracks (Celje Airport)
    2 - less then 1000 metres asphalt runway (Lošinj Airport)
    3 - over 1000 metres asphalt runway (Bol Airport)
    4 - less then 3000 metres runway (Maribor Airport)
    5 - over 3000 metres runway (Dubrovnik Airport)
    6 - over 3000 metres runway, not big difference between level 5-6 (Ljubljana Jože Pucnik Airport)
    7 - ? None have got level 7, yet.
    8 - needs to be a big military airport (Slatina Air Base)
    9 - ? Zeljava maybe
    10 - I guess Belgrad, Nikola Tesla airport can only match this
    So if we don't shall use dirt tracks we can just remove all level 1 airports that are in the .INC files. Or if idea of JRHINDO works we can also use the dirt tracks only for rec. planes.
    Last edited by Hax; 04-12-2011 at 14:01.
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  10. #5410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    @Knindja, Hax
    Could you define list of national provinces for RSK and RS?
    For RSK, would infamous VKK line fit the case or something less ambitious?
    For RS, would whole BiH fit the case?
    What is the VKK line?

    To be a national province for another country then the ruling one I would have these "rules":
    For example Serb national provinces in Bosnia could be where they were majority before the war.
    Where there were a significant Serb minority, for example Sarajevo, Mostar etc.
    Religious "holy" provinces (propaganda province).

    Due to ethnic cleansing we should get events which lowers partisan activity.

    I just got the idea of having events which makes so that when you capture a province the IC number is lowered to the battles, this should maybe only happen in urban provinces. I know that the Kaiserreich mod has this kind of event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    I kept making changes. Here is a look at what RSK should look like on 01/06/1991.
    http://www.mediafire.com/i/?idkh2iroldg0cya
    Comments?
    So 1/6 is the start date?
    Looks nice but what about eastern RSK? Didn't RSK control the province around Bihac(croat side) in the beginning of the scenario or did they take them later?
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  11. #5411
    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    @Knindja, Hax
    Could you define list of national provinces for RSK and RS?
    For RSK, would infamous VKK line fit the case or something less ambitious?
    For RS, would whole BiH fit the case?

    Did u mean Karlobag, Ogulin, Karlovac, Virovitica line? This line was frequently referenced by Serbian politician Vojislav Šešelj, but he is only president of Radical party at this time.. Milosevic and Karadzic have different thinking, they wanted on begining that all serbs must live in one state, this includes all the towns where Serbs are majority. But if you use KOKV line for RSK, then u for RS must use whole BIH.

  12. #5412
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    Start date 1/6.
    I am happy to add more provinces. I just need to get someone with more knowledge of the area to comment.
    I know for an example that Police in Dvor declared part of RSK police but that doesn't mean that Croatian Interior Ministry still did not have at least the same number of own police in the area.
    Dvor was officially taken in July by JNA and Martic-police. It could be that similar thing happened in other places too.

    I think we won't need to worry about dissent yet. Let's get the basics going before we get to dissent handling.

    VKK line = Virovitica - Karlovac - Karlobag = western borders of proposed Greater Serbia.

    I am just trying now to get 10-day-war going... Miserable... grrrr

  13. #5413
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnindzA View Post
    Did u mean Karlobag, Ogulin, Karlovac, Virovitica line? This line was frequently referenced by Serbian politician Vojislav Šešelj, but he is only president of Radical party at this time.. Milosevic and Karadzic have different thinking, they wanted on begining that all serbs must live in one state, this includes all the towns where Serbs are majority. But if you use KOKV line for RSK, then u for RS must use whole BIH.
    Are you willing to code KOVK line? Do you know how?
    Did you have a look at the snap shot of proposed RSK terriroty on June 1st? Does that look good to you?

  14. #5414
    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    I kept making changes. Here is a look at what RSK should look like on 01/06/1991.
    http://www.mediafire.com/i/?idkh2iroldg0cya
    Comments?
    This is SAO Krajina it is formed on 28 februar 1991, it is include north Dalmatia and Lika and i agree this is RSK on 01/06/1991.

    And I dont know how to code KOVK line.

  15. #5415
    My Ni**a Hax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    Start date 1/6.
    I am happy to add more provinces. I just need to get someone with more knowledge of the area to comment.
    I know for an example that Police in Dvor declared part of RSK police but that doesn't mean that Croatian Interior Ministry still did not have at least the same number of own police in the area.
    Dvor was officially taken in July by JNA and Martic-police. It could be that similar thing happened in other places too.

    I think we won't need to worry about dissent yet. Let's get the basics going before we get to dissent handling.

    VKK line = Virovitica - Karlovac - Karlobag = western borders of proposed Greater Serbia.

    I am just trying now to get 10-day-war going... Miserable... grrrr
    Alright, no more moving of the start date.
    No more provinces, the map is already too complex.
    It seems you know much more then we so please all your info put it in the events and OOB's.

    Well that line doesn't to be line of national provinces. Use the "rules" that I posted before:
    For example Serb national provinces in Bosnia could be where they were majority before the war.
    Where there were a significant Serb minority, for example Sarajevo, Mostar etc.
    Religious "holy" provinces (propaganda province).
    But all national provinces should be connected with the capitol somehow(not via invisible connections).

    What are you trying to do with the Slovenian war? I have got some ready military leaders for Slovenia, they just need to have a ID number.
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  16. #5416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    I was looking at the models we have so far and I cannot see how to represent some of the ship types. Basically, I see 5 ship-types that fall under gun boats at the moment. We could move the largest once (missile gun missiles) to BBs. I am just about to post the complete JNA OOB so you will get the idea.
    - I am unsure how to set up some of the ship types
    -- Since naval bases are not completed I've placed all the ships in Pula. They are grooped in fleets by types, e.g: Heroj class submarines, Koncar class gun boats, etc...
    ** JRHINDO please look at these and advise models for each.
    The patrol boat ships are big and armed enough to be considered Corvettes, the 80 Ice and Mirne. The rest are too small and would be gun boats.
    - Two models of helicopters: transport and attack.
    ** JRHINDO. How to best represent this? I've set them up as naval_planes with model 1 = transport and model 2 = attack. Is this good enough?
    The naval planes are only to represent the attack helicopters, also i used the heavy armor brigade to make a gunship support unit. For transport helicopters I used the super heavy armor brigade, because if i use a air unit then land units will act like paratroopers (troops will be droped and cant be picked up).
    - Only MiGs29 were set up as fighters. Other plane types were used by JNA as ground support due to being too obsolete.
    ** JRHINDO. MiG29 although fighters should have more devastating effect then any other plan type.
    I have seen texts and images of MiG 21 with JNA markings used during the Kosova war. Was MiG 29 really the only plane used as fighter?
    ** JRHINDO. I think we need to make planes impossible to upgrade just as ships can't be upgraded.
    Ok



    KOVK line was somekind of partition plan for a plausible negotiation between serbia and croatia, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    Naval: I have started to work on the ports. I have for Albania and Slovenia found and written on paper the province ID and the level of the ports they should have, I just need to write it in the .INC files. I will soon start to with the Bosnian ports(Sava river ports). But please if you have some more ports which I haven't listed now or in the future please notice me.

    See the last post of this thread: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...505788-Albania
    you can just write here what data about ports you have, no need to code it in the .inc
    Also hax plz dont say 'ethnic cleansing' too much, you will get us trouble from moderators and angry serbo-croats!


    Hax should we officially release YW005 for DH? The conversion stuff I posted seems to work for everyone who tried.
    (And we will get more fame from DH users and maybe attract more modders or just ppl like Hogar, KnindzA, Supa, CroWarrior, El Fatih and the rest!)

  17. #5417
    Major Hogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    What are you trying to do with the Slovenian war? I have got some ready military leaders for Slovenia, they just need to have a ID number.
    At this point I am only working on the historical context.
    Basically, Serbia tells JNA that they are not interested in funding Slovenian war and JNA find itself without a single republic supporting its agenda. They are forced to let Slovenia go.

    Event 1: Slovenia declared independence and war
    Event 2: Serbia tells JNA 'next time' (I think we offer ahistorical path later)
    Event 3: Peace + troops transfer to Slovenia (bit to Croatia) or JNA redeployment to Bosnia/Serbia/Montenegro
    --> Since war in Croatia was starting, redeployment was hazardous as Croatians were taking stuff off the trains. Also, some units were left with Slovenians on 'safekeeping' and were never returned.
    I have good numbers on this, so I will write events covering this.

    I have very bad info on Slovenian TO. It appears that they have at least 7 brigades... In the peace time there are only about 4 brigades.
    There is also that issue with JNA pulling all units back to its force pool when war starts... I'll try doing something but may eventually go back to JRH.


    JNA OOB: I have been reading on some war accounts and none of them mentions Partisan divisions. I have removed them from OOB as they must be TO units which we are handling through events and were not active at the start of scenario.
    Last edited by Hogar; 04-12-2011 at 22:17.

  18. #5418
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRHINDO View Post
    The patrol boat ships are big and armed enough to be considered Corvettes, the 80 Ice and Mirne. The rest are too small and would be gun boats.
    Is that CL? Sorry about my ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRHINDO View Post
    I have seen texts and images of MiG 21 with JNA markings used during the Kosova war. Was MiG 29 really the only plane used as fighter?
    Against NATO yet. In Yugoslav wars there were no dog fights and all planes were using in CAS roles. Even mig29s.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRHINDO View Post
    KOVK line was somekind of partition plan for a plausible negotiation between serbia and croatia, right?
    No. That was an old border that woud ensure all-serbs-in-one-state policy. It was in direct contradiction with what other peoples perceived as theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRHINDO View Post
    you can just write here what data about ports you have, no need to code it in the .inc?
    Will do.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRHINDO View Post
    Hax should we officially release YW005 for DH? The conversion stuff I posted seems to work for everyone who tried.
    (And we will get more fame from DH users and maybe attract more modders or just ppl like Hogar, KnindzA, Supa, CroWarrior, El Fatih and the rest!)
    Didn't I say this somewhere already

  19. #5419
    Hej Slaveni! JRHINDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogar View Post
    Is that CL? Sorry about my ignorance.
    More or less yes. Its the modern destroyer, but bigger and better.
    Didn't I say this somewhere already
    I will take the initiative to post something on the DH forum.

  20. #5420
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    Why I can't have more than one air unit grouped together. Commenting out second and third line and it's all good.
    I've seen other examples where this works just fine. Anyone pls?

    airunit = {
    location = 1846 # Batajnica (Belgrade)
    base = 1846
    id = { type = 10500 id = 3000 }
    name = "138. TRAB"
    division = { id = { type = 13500 id = 3001 } name = "675. TRAE" strength = 80 type = transport_plane model = 0 } # Yak-40, Falcon 50, Learjet 25, Do 28D
    division = { id = { type = 13500 id = 3002 } name = "678. TRAE" strength = 80 type = transport_plane model = 0 } # Yak-40
    division = { id = { type = 13500 id = 3003 } name = "890. TRHE" strength = 80 type = naval_bomber model = 0 } # Mi-8, SA.341, SA.342
    }

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