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Thread: Yugoslav Wars

  1. #301
    Eternal leader of all Ducks The Great Duck's Avatar

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    Well,if I am not mistaken,the Serbian leadership planned to make Yugoslavia fully Serbian,so if the Serbs manage to win in the war and conquer Bosnia and Croatia,or if they lose and fully abandon any ideas of Yugoslavia,they could create Serbia.
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  2. #302
    Those are points I would dispute. For the sake of the game, the effort in early 1990 to create a market-based Yugoslavia might not have failed. The various nationalists were not fans of Communism and thus any new states would abandon Communism and adopt a mostly market economy.

    The various waves of Liberal theory did have an impact on Yugoslavia but an even greater impact in areas outside of Milosevic's administration. Notably the RS was much more inclined to the Free Market than Yugoslavia/Serbia. The ability to shift economic burdens for the massive dept and transfer payments to Kosovo was a major political issue.

    Slovenia and Croatia were irate at their productivity being sent into the economic sinkhole of Albanian dominated Kosovo. Had Yugoslavia stayed together then, Serbia would not have been created but the decision on the part of most Serbs to orient towards a centralist state shifted most non-Serbs to chose independence. In that case, if not for the decision of Serbs to declare independence from Croatia and Bosnia, there would have been no wars and Serbs in the remaining Yugoslavia would likely have toppled the residual Communist government thereby creating Serbia.

    There were stirrings of that in 1995 when Milosevic cooperated with Tudjman in Operation Storm but also with his conduct in 1998. He was fully toppled in 1999. All those seem the best times for events allowing a player to switch Yugoslavia to Serbia.

  3. #303
    Arnold Hax's Avatar
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    Lipovan do you now something with modding
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  4. #304
    I know a bit but the means of connecting together various lists of events might get a bit tricky in terms of setting aside a specific series of reserved numbers. I understand the process in theory but practice needs work.

    If I would participate in modding, I would need some help understanding how the event numbers work. Writing them is otherwise no problem.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Duck View Post
    First it was not a civil war.And second,maybe there were people with pro-ustaše sympathies among Croats and Muslims,but there were no organized ustaše armed groups.
    Out of pure Serb curiosity, if this wasnt a civil war, as u claim, then what would u call it? What was it?

  6. #306
    Eternal leader of all Ducks The Great Duck's Avatar

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    A war of aggression against Bosnia and Croatia?
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  7. #307
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    Lipovan87
    The Great Duck

    have been added in the member list of the mod.

    Lipovan87 you don't need to learn how to make events now.
    i want first all ministers.

    So could you Lipovan87 find the ministers of albania 1991.

    The Great Duck you are hrvat so could u find this ministers of croatia beacuse you now where you can find that info.
    Ministers you need to find for getting a higher rank is

    Croatia

    Head of Staff

    and is

    Armament Minister Petar Kriste or Gojko Šušak??

    Chief of the Air Force: Imra Agotic is it he??

    Chief of the Navy: Davorin Rudolf is it he??

    plzz do that
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  8. #308
    Eternal leader of all Ducks The Great Duck's Avatar

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    I think Šušak succeeded Kriste.He was the minister of diaspora before that.
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  9. #309
    Emperador de Espańa Sgt. Optimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Duck View Post
    A war of aggression against Bosnia and Croatia?
    It was a war of independece of Republika Srpska Krajina and Republika Srpska. Croatia is responsible for ethnic cleansing of 250.000 krajina serbs.

  10. #310
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    Sgt. Optimus remember war is bad, there is only losers.
    But some losers got more then some else.

    PLzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz stop this discussion now.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So Šušak will be the Armament Minister.
    Right?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Duck come on help me with the other ministers.
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  11. #311
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    The end scenario picture.



    The three leaders of the alliances.

    /Hax
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  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    Sgt. Optimus remember war is bad, there is only losers.
    But some losers got more then some else.

    PLzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz stop this discussion now.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So Šušak will be the Armament Minister.
    Right?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Duck come on help me with the other ministers.
    After Kriste,yes.
    @Sgt.Optimus:Nope.The evacuation was organized by the RSK authorities,and the Croatian president Tuđman called the Serbs to remain in Croatia.And it was Croatia and BiH who fought for independence-of course,(S)FRY was not directly involved,as they were afraid of something like what happened in 1999,and RS and RSK were its instruments who planned to conquer Bosnia and at least 1/3 or 2/3 of Croatia,unite with Yugoslavia,ethnically cleanse,"Serbify" or kill most non-Serbs and create a greater Serbia,and "JN"A and JRM supported the Serbian rebels and četniks in Croatia and Bosnia.Vukovar and Dubrovnik were attacked by "JN"A,and "JN"A soldiers also fought against Croatia in various other places.
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  13. #313
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    when became susak a Armament Minister
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  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Duck View Post
    After Kriste,yes.
    @Sgt.Optimus:Nope.The evacuation was organized by the RSK authorities,and the Croatian president Tuđman called the Serbs to remain in Croatia.And it was Croatia and BiH who fought for independence-of course,(S)FRY was not directly involved,as they were afraid of something like what happened in 1999,and RS and RSK were its instruments who planned to conquer Bosnia and at least 1/3 or 2/3 of Croatia,unite with Yugoslavia,ethnically cleanse,"Serbify" or kill most non-Serbs and create a greater Serbia,and "JN"A and JRM supported the Serbian rebels and četniks in Croatia and Bosnia.Vukovar and Dubrovnik were attacked by "JN"A,and "JN"A soldiers also fought against Croatia in various other places.
    Nice fairytale

  15. #315
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    What is the truth then?
    Šušak became the AM in september 1991,suceeding Luka Bebić,who suceeded Šime Đodan,who suceeded Martin Špegelj,who became the AM after Kriste.
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  16. #316
    Points to bear in mind, the JNA fought initially to keep Yugoslavia together. After the political leadership lost will, JNA units armed Serbs who worried about living in an Ustashe state (a few comments by some Croatian ministers and Croatian citizenship laws certainly confirmed those suspicions) who rebelled to form their own states.

    The status of Croatia being an independent state was in contradiction with Yugoslav law and so, as most states do, the Yugoslav government decided to send in the Army to return it to government control. When that failed due to international pressure, they withdrew but the major goal of protecting Serbs in the Krajina meant that Serbs were armed.

    Bosnia's legal status was also murky but when Izetbegovic wrote the Islamic declaration, the memory of Nis and a few centuries of Devershime becomes a bit of a sour memory.

    The legal status there was the defacto independence of Croatia and Bosnia but also the rebellions of Serbs to create their own states provided a murky status for them as well. While the RSK and RS had some Yugoslav support, Milosevic was just as happy to see them defeated as they presented political opposition to him ideologically and politically.

    In order to politically secure their areas, all factions expelled non-members of their own group. The Serbs in Bosnia were the most successful in terms of numbers as they had inherited more weaponry and skilled soldiers from the JNA. They expelled people in different ways but this was generally sending people on trains to Hungary, Yugoslavia, Croatia, and areas under Bosnian government control. Some people did commit humiliating acts and others murdered (one incident with Arkan comes to memory) but by and large it did not involve murder.

    Cacic and incidents in Sarajevo are more worrying on the Muslim side and a number of Muslim villages were destroyed in the Croat-Muslim fighting.

    The Krajina Serbs were ordered to evacuate by their leadership (believed to be under Milosevic's orders) but those incapable of fleeing were left to the overwhelmed capabilities of UNPROFOR who had confirmation of why they sought refuge. The final war in Eastern Slavonia was less brutal ironically (Vukovar is hardly a peaceful battle earlier on) with Croat authorities only gradually reintegrating it into Croatia.




    Hopefully that should express my views.

    That said, the government of Albania was a bit of a revolving door. Ministers changed frequently and 1997 was the most momentous transition for a while.

    1991
    Foreign Minister
    Muhamet Kapllani

    One major source I am using is here. I may be able to find more credible sources occasionally but this will have to do for now.

    Presidents of the Republic
    Ramiz Alia 30 Apr 1991 - 3 Apr 1992
    Kastriot Islami 3 Apr 1992 - 6 Apr 1992
    Pjetër Arbnori 6 Apr 1992 - 9 Apr 1992
    Sali Berisha 9 Apr 1992 - 24 Jul 1997
    Skënder Gjinushi 24 Jul 1997 - 24 Jul 1997
    Rexhep Meidani 24 Jul 1997 - 24 Jul 2002
    Alfred Moisiu 24 Jul 2002 - 24 Jul 2007

    Chairmen of the Council of Ministers
    Enver Hoxha 1 Jan 1946 - 23 Jul 1954 (+1982)
    Mehmet Shehu 23 Jul 1954 - 18 Dec 1981 (+)s
    Adil Çarçani 18 Dec 1981 - 22 Feb 1991 (+1997)

    Prime Ministers
    Fatos Nano 22 Feb 1991 - 5 Jun 1991
    Ylli Bufi 5 Jun 1991 - 11 Dec 1991
    Vilson Ahmeti 11 Dec 1991 - 13 Apr 1992
    Aleksander Meksi 13 Apr 1992 - 11 Mar 1997
    Bashkim Fino 11 Mar 1997 - 24 Jul 1997
    Fatos Nano 24 Jul 1997 - 2 Oct 1998
    Pandeli Majko 2 Oct 1998 - 29 Oct 1999
    Ilir Meta 29 Oct 1999 - 22 Feb 2002
    Pandeli Majko 22 Feb 2002 - 31 Jul 2002
    Fatos Nano 31 Jul 2002 - 11 Sep 2005

    Foreign Ministers
    Reis Malile 1982-1991 (+2003) PPSh
    Muhamet Kapllani 1991 PPSh, PSSh
    Ilir Boçka 1991-1992 n/p
    Alfred Serreqi 1992-1996 PDSh
    Tritan Shehu 1996-1997 PDSh
    Arjan Starova 1997 PDSh
    Paskal Milo 1997-2001 PSDSh
    Arta Dade 2001-2002 PSSh
    Ilir Meta 2002-2003 PSSh
    Luan Hajdaraga 2003 PSSh (acting)
    Kastriot Islami 2003-2005 PSSh

    Ministers of Defense
    Prokop Murra 1982-1990 PPSh
    Kiço Mustaqi 1990-1991 PPSh
    Ndriçim Karakaçi 1991 PSSh
    Perikli Teta 1991 n/p
    Alfred Moisiu 1991-1992 n/p
    Safet Zhulali 1992-1997 (+2002) PDSh
    Shaqir Vukaj 1997 PSSh
    Sabit Brokaj 1997-1998 PSSh
    Luan Hajdaraga 1998-2000 PSSh
    Ilir Gjoni 2000 n/p
    Ismail Lleshi 2000-2001 PSSh
    Pandeli Majko 2001-2002 PSSh
    Luan Rama 2002 PSSh
    Pandeli Majko 2002-2005 PSSh

    Interior
    Simon Stefani 1989-1990 PPSh
    Hekuran Isai 1990-1991 PPSh
    Gramoz Ruçi 1991 PPSh
    Hajredin Shyti 1991 PPSh
    Bajram Yzeiri 1991 n/p
    Vladimir Hysi 1991-1992 n/p
    Bashkim Kopliku 1992-1993 PDSh
    Agron Musaraj 1993-1996 PDSh
    Halit Shamata 1996-1997 PDSh
    Belul Celo 1997 PDSh
    Neritan Çeka 1997-1998 PADSh
    Petro Koçi 1998-1999 PSSh
    Spartak Poçi 1999-2000 PSSh
    Ilir Gjoni 2000-2002 n/p
    Stefan Çipa 2002 PSSh
    Luan Rama 2002-2003 PSSh
    Igli Toska 2003-2005 PSSh

    Finance
    Andrea Nako 1985-1990 PPSh
    Qemal Disha 1990-1991 PPSh
    Anastas Angjeli 1991 PPSh
    Genc Ruli 1991 PDSh
    Robert Çeku 1991-1992 n/p
    Genc Ruli 1992-1993 PDSh
    Piro Dishnica 1993-1994 PDSh
    Dylber Vrioni 1994-1996 PDSh
    Ridvan Bode 1996-1997 PDSh
    Arben Malaj 1997-1998 PSSh
    Anastas Angjeli 1998-2002 PPSh
    Kastriot Islami 2002-2003 PSSh
    Arben Malaj 2003-2005 PSSh

    Remember that photos are going to be near impossible to obtain. I will continue to work on getting the occasional data on them including their Intelligence people (who were involved in arming the KLA) but this is easier said than done.

  17. #317
    Eternal leader of all Ducks The Great Duck's Avatar

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    Lipovan,so you want to say that Croatia was an ilegal Nazi state at the time,and the Serbs have commited only a few war crimes,and just wanted to protect the Bosnian and Croatian Serbs and hold Yugoslavia together?
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  18. #318
    Arnold Hax's Avatar
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    Lipovan nice you have been promoted.
    Look on the first post
    GOOD JOB!

    For the beta version. 1.0 Beta shall we only have the ministers of 1991.
    For Macedonia and Kosovo it will be the first ministers.

    Now Lipovan could u find the ministers of Republic of Kosova
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  19. #319
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    Guys..
    I thinks some of you are getting a bit carried away..

    IT WAS A CIVIL WAR... There are NEVER winners in any wars, everybody loses in some ways..
    Why the hell are you arguing about what faction was the best, and who had the most rights?
    Nobody had.. The fact is that nationalism and religion destoryed Yugoslavia as it once were..

    I know that some think that communism was the worst thing ever, but the fact is that Tito managed to hold together a people that had different nationalities and religions..

    The mod--leader should make a strictly neutral mod! Then, first then, the different users can mod as they like, and make their favorite faction the "winner".

    I dont give a damn, but dont let it out on us god dammit!
    “The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins”
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  20. #320
    Eternal leader of all Ducks The Great Duck's Avatar

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    I agree on one point here,there was truly no winner in the Yugoslav wars...But they were not a civil war.And yes,Tito did manage to hold people of so many different nationalities and religions together,but so did Stalin...
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