Yugoslav Wars

[Hogar]

Was Ljubljana captured by JNA or was it expelled from there?
Do somebody know how the ethnic groups were divided in the brigades/units? Was there mostly Serbs, had the Slovenes and Croats left the army before the war started?

JNA was always confined to barracks. There were very few attempts to break. JNA never anticipated local population becoming unfriendly so it was utterly unprepared. JNA high command opted for de-blockade by sending relief force but this was often botched and badly executed. Also, troops were green (19 YO kids) which were demoralized and were in poor fighting shape. Only after mobilisation did some units gain fighting spirit.This doesn't apply to Airforce because pilots were officers not green kids.
Officers were in majority Serbian (hard to give percentage). Historically Serbs tended to see army service as something honourable. Example: in the Army school initial intake was matching Yugoslav census but by the end of schooling many non-Serbs dropped out. Also other ethnic groups started leaving once political tensions rose. When mobilisation started JNA sent recruitment notices too all nationalities but mostly Serbs responded to it which only cemented Serbian majority. This led to a rise of Serbian Army. I don't remember any place where a complete unit (in game units) switched the sides.

I would have events to demoralise JNA units (e.g. Slovenian government recalls it's officers from JNA) to keep game going otherwise it's all done in a week.

[Hogar]

Rugby is Rugby!

Rugby is religion in NZ.

[Hax]

JNA was always confined to barracks. There were very few attempts to break. JNA never anticipated local population becoming unfriendly so it was utterly unprepared. JNA high command opted for de-blockade by sending relief force but this was often botched and badly executed. Also, troops were green (19 YO kids) which were demoralized and were in poor fighting shape. Only after mobilisation did some units gain fighting spirit.This doesn't apply to Airforce because pilots were officers not green kids.
Officers were in majority Serbian (hard to give percentage). Historically Serbs tended to see army service as something honourable. Example: in the Army school initial intake was matching Yugoslav census but by the end of schooling many non-Serbs dropped out. Also other ethnic groups started leaving once political tensions rose. When mobilisation started JNA sent recruitment notices too all nationalities but mostly Serbs responded to it which only cemented Serbian majority. This led to a rise of Serbian Army. I don't remember any place where a complete unit (in game units) switched the sides.

I would have events to demoralise JNA units (e.g. Slovenian government recalls it's officers from JNA) to keep game going otherwise it's all done in a week.

Alright, events for demoralizing will be included.

What do you say about the AI and player having production? I mean they can create units and then put them into unhistorical places. My question is should there be mostly units created from events or from production? What is your opinion?

Also JRHINDO have you tried to put the OOB made by Hogar and military access for SFRY to all the federal republics? Does the game crash or does the units "flee" to the redeployment pool?
Can it have something with the supplies, if there is not enough of supplies the AI starts to disband some of its units?

*Jrhindo is updating YW mod

[JRHINDO]

What do you say about the AI and player having production? I mean they can create units and then put them into unhistorical places. My question is should there be mostly units created from events or from production? What is your opinion?

We will never have a perfectly realistic/historical, so its probably best that we let AI and players create their units.

Also JRHINDO have you tried to put the OOB made by Hogar and military access for SFRY to all the federal republics? Does the game crash or does the units "flee" to the redeployment pool?
Can it have something with the supplies, if there is not enough of supplies the AI starts to disband some of its units?

SFRY units dont leave their positions in my tests, they will leave when SLV and CRO get independent its solvable by giving mil access to both areas. But when war starts the units will be out of supplies, behind enemy lines so I think we will need to make offmap connections between SFRY/TO bases and SFRY Beograd.

[Hogar]

SFRY units dont leave their positions in my tests, they will leave when SLV and CRO get independent its solvable by giving mil access to both areas. But when war starts the units will be out of supplies, behind enemy lines so I think we will need to make offmap connections between SFRY/TO bases and SFRY Beograd.

I would remove them from the scenario when war starts have a random chance to surrender, negotiate free passage out or fight (AI players).
Surrender was an important source of weapons and should lead to formation of rebel units. Units that negotiated free passage were immediately filled by recruited manpower and given to RS or RSK. I think fight did not happen often but I on couple of occasions it did.
If this is accepted should human player get a chance what to do in each situation?

[Hogar]

What do you say about the AI and player having production? I mean they can create units and then put them into unhistorical places. My question is should there be mostly units created from events or from production? What is your opinion?

Real production (in game terms) did not happen. Mostly units were formed out of equipment captured or given. Later in the war there were purchases as well. Very little but ammo was produced.
If you choose to allow building, how will this work in Bosnia where all ethnic groups had their capital cut off from other major areas? IMO production should be allowed but it should be extremely expensive.

[Hax]

I like your idea about surrender, free passage and fight. Just for big army barracs and provinces with many brigades should have these events. I guess Ljubljana, Maribor and maybe some other provinces (+demoralizing events).

Maybe we don't need to have steel or iron as a resource, instead having ammo which can be captured when big cities are taken or important provinces.
So Armija BiH would have little of "ammo" while RS army should have a lot but less of manpower.
Good idea?

[JRHINDO]

Good idea?

Yes maybe but I have no idea how to simulate that...

[Hax]

Provinces which has ammofactories will produce ammo, and events can pop-up for every country so that it can create new factories for a high cost.
And that via events you can get more ammo.

We remove steel and replace it with AMMO

[JRHINDO]

We remove steel and replace it with AMMO

If ammo=steel now factories consume ammo? Do we even have info about any ammo factory in yugoslavia?
(Kinda stereotypical but AK47 ammo was made in Russia generally so...)

[Hogar]

It doesn't seem realistic to have country producing a new ammo factory. IRL without a foreign buy war would continue with stone throwers. Could we have a regular HOI economy with expensive unit production and events giving some weapons to underdogs by 'foreign sympathisers', e.g.'We managed to procure some weapons from a country sympathetic to our cause'. That creates units... Also, already mentioned JNA barracks siege events should lead to units creation. Most JNA units should withdraw (hence become a Serb unit) or are already located in areas were Serbs are majority. That should give enough boost to Serbs to have initiative they had IRL.
I am arguing for counties to only produce supplies which they mostly had IRL.

I've only heard of Croatia setting up a brand new production of helmets and personal assault weapons. Having factories in provinces will be gamey... will AI know to defend them or go for them?

Is it possible to set a unit so it cannot be reinforced? IRL there were very little chance to purchase new planes or heavy armour (tanks). Once depleted they are gone and dusted...

Who is looking at IC allocation?

[Hax]

Who is looking at IC allocation?

Nobody
But we got some info on IC collected.

[JRHINDO]

Look guys I'll just give bad production cost and time events to countries when they have X amount of divisions, ships and planes...

Come on now, plz give me a list or links to posts of things to add into the mod. The easier things are laid out the faster I work!
Plz find the page where we discussed about the map connections to simulate siege of sarajevo and other towns.
Hax I remember someone posted names of sea provinces long time ago.
Any other things to add plz say it.

[Hax]

Look guys I'll just give bad production cost and time events to countries when they have X amount of divisions, ships and planes...

Come on now, plz give me a list or links to posts of things to add into the mod. The easier things are laid out the faster I work!
Plz find the page where we discussed about the map connections to simulate siege of sarajevo and other towns.
Hax I remember someone posted names of sea provinces long time ago.
Any other things to add plz say it.

Sorry for the wait.

Here are the seaprovinces of the Croatian sea:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post11780650

Add the "Here are only provinces that have little level IC:", give those cities 3 IC.

For "Here are the ID's, names and types of buildings for Croatia:" just add IC and give those cities 5-10 IC(bigger city = bigger IC - look on population of 1991 to get a hint or famous factories). Don't add airports(I have already done that) and don't add ports(doing that currently).

You can also add these Coastal Artilleries. I give you the privilege to calculate and make is so fair as possible with the coastal defence level. But don't let be higher then 4-5, under that is only accepted. It's not directly Omaha beach.

I got so much info, pictures and text collected so I don't know what to give you more.
Do you want to start distribute oil for the provinces? Or maybe creating text files for military leaders, for Yugoslavia or Slovenia?

Plz find the page where we discussed about the map connections to simulate siege of sarajevo and other towns.

Was it on this forum, on this thread? What was in that post(s)?
Also did we lose much info from the BoP forum, I know we had collected some good stuff there.

[Hax]

Opened new thread: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...-of-Yugoslavia
SFRY

We need more military leaders for them!
Spam military leaders!

[JRHINDO]

Ok thx Hax. Yes why not give me the oil distribution. And maybe those old maps we found about resource/industry distribution.

Was it on this forum, on this thread? What was in that post(s)?
Also did we lose much info from the BoP forum, I know we had collected some good stuff there.

Yes on this thread, its about a dozen pages back. We spoke to make connections between country capitals and important cities, so troops would not be "out of supplies" because they are cut off from capital and to simulate smuggling during sieges.

Edit: Blarg.. Now mod doesnt want to load at all. HoI2DDA loads and work fine but not when mod is installed.....
Gonna recheck file by file...

[Hax]

Alright will give you oil and some maps tomorrow, I'm not my personal computer now.

I shall see if I can find those pages.

Don't do big changes and then try, step by step, file by file and check. If it's working go on if not see what is wrong with the file you have added. That way I'm doing it.

[Hax]

Alright I found the page of this thread were we discussed about capitols smuggling to enclaves.
Here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...-Wars/page261&

Hogar did a good post of possible provinces: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post12821292

Maybe we should devolop it more and add some more countries(Albania, Slovenia etc.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I got for oil:

Refineries in ex-Yugoslavia:

Serbia
Pancevo Refinery (Naftna Industrija Srbije), 96.000 bbl/day
Novi Sad Refinery (Naftna Industrija Srbije), 52.000 bbl/day
Hemco Refinery www.hemco.rs Near Belgrade (? bbl/day)

Macedonia
OKTA Skopje Refinery, (Hellenic Petroleum), 50,000 bbl/d (7,900 m3/d)

Croatia
Rijeka Refinery, (INA - www.ina.hr), 90,000 bbl/d (14,000 m3/d)
Sisak Refinery, (INA - www.ina.hr), 60,000 bbl/d (9,500 m3/d)

Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bosanski Brod Refinery, 30,000 bbl/day

History of Bosanski Brod Refinery:
“Oil Refinery” j.s.c. with f.l. Brod was founded in 1892 by Hungarian company for chemical industry called Danica. The capacity of the refinery was 25000 tones per year.
In 1927 having completed negotiations with Standard Oil Company, the state sold the Oil refinery. The new owner built up new distillery with the capacity of 300 tones per day.
In 1968, Snam Progetti completed an expansion to take capacity to 2 million ton per year.
In 1990 the new processing line was built with the processing capacity of 3 mil tones per year. It comprised 10 production processes.
Having been sold to the Russian company Zarubezneft the reconstruction was finished and the old processing line was set into operation with the capacity of 1.2 mil tones per year.
In 2009 reconstruction of facilities on the new processing line started.

Does somebody know how much 3mil tones per year is in bbl/day?
Somebody who can calculate how much every province should have calculated from bbl/day?

Also shall we that refineries are oil? I don't know of any big oilfields in Yugoslavia but in Albania I know. Maybe some of us know some more?

Albania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lds_in_Albania

What do you say?

[JRHINDO]

What do you say?

I am happy.

[Hax]

What next?