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Thread: Development Diary #14 - 28th of January 2009

  1. #21
    Major mbabbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pal View Post
    On a side note, there are at least five typos in the screenshot and another four in the code excerpt. And I'm not counting the "s" instead of "z" thingy (Sorry, couldn't resist pointing that out... I know it's irrelevant)

    Amallric has a point here - the small arms used by militia are not exactly something you would research separately. But then, there needs to be some way to model the outfitting of militia with more modern weaponry. This would only be possible in a realistic way if the equipment was sort of an object, too, so you could take the small arms of an infantry brigade and give it to a militia brigade, while the infantry gets the latest fashion killing toys.
    I was expecting to be able to research something like a semi-auto rifle, and then once complete my units would be upgraded with it. Then I was expecting to be able to specify the priority of the upgrades.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter War View Post
    Unlimited? Does that mean we can improve cav unlimited number of times?


    Why would it lower the chance of keeping my troops hidden?
    yes. open-ended techs.

    and more radios-more chatter-more chance for radio intercepts-more intel for enemy-less chance to hide stuff.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gen.Schuermann View Post
    So infantry small arms could also be an unlimited tech? What are the restraints? It's getting a hell of a lot expensive later? Finally i can have a half automatic rifle like the Gewehr43 in the beginning of the war already, if i wanted to. The year restriction was maybe nice for balance terms, but in the end, it was kind of stupid as well, as in not realistic. Why for example did i need to wait for 1950, when i had all nuke techs prior and also all rocket techs done before i can tip my rockets with mininukes?

    If i understood this right, that would be really really awesome. I also really like that you will boost militias. Militia AT weapons, yeah! Nothing better than ragtag group of bandits with Panzerfausts hiding in the woods!

    For the interface, may i suggest grouping them and properly give them a name as a headline above? I can hardly make out what belongs to whom on that page. Not as easy and straightforward as it sounds from the blog.

    Other than that, you once again got me very hyped.
    There is still starting years for techs, if the code posted is anything to go by... which it is Startyears and the possibility to specify years for the other levels of the tech...
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  4. #24
    AoD's Old Geezer Balesir's Avatar
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    Very interesting! And sounds very nice to play, too

    Will model names be based purely off the technologies used in the model (e.g. gun 4+ and armour 5+ = 'Panther') or will it be possible to have the model name depend on which tech is highest/higher than another in the model build? To be able to go with a somewhat ahistorical design philosophy and have different model names as a result would be a definite atmosphere boost, I think.
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  5. #25
    Call me stupid, Flavour names? Would that be when does a light tank become a medium tank or are you talking Panzer IIF to Panther as in specific model names?
    I see also next to every improvement, lets take the first one Cavalry Small arms, it has a value 3 with a plus sign. I am assuming I can click on it to increase its value using I assume leadership points?

  6. #26
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    The limit when I want to change "models" is free. Does this mean that I can lets say develope unlimited cavalry smallarms and have following options:

    development step 1-3 model A
    development step 4-6 model B

    or

    development step 1-2 model A
    development step 3-4 model B
    development step 5-6 model C

    But a "model" consists of several small tech, so do I have to limit this development steps for all kind of improvements?

    Or do I have to make the model switch like:

    Every 5 improvements to a "model", no matter which, it grades up to the next one?
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  7. #27
    King of the mushroom cloud Pal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbabbs View Post
    I was expecting to be able to research something like a semi-auto rifle, and then once complete my units would be upgraded with it. Then I was expecting to be able to specify the priority of the upgrades.
    Yes, but the problem is: What happens to the old guns once the brigade receives the new rifles? They disappear into thin air? I'd rather sell the old stuff to Italy or give it to my militias manning the Atlantic wall...
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Gen.Schuermann View Post
    So infantry small arms could also be an unlimited tech? What are the restraints? It's getting a hell of a lot expensive later? Finally i can have a half automatic rifle like the Gewehr43 in the beginning of the war already, if i wanted to.
    Look at this part of the code:

    #common for all techs.
    start_year = 1918
    first_offset = 1934 #2nd model is from 1934
    additional_offset = 2 #one new every 2 years
    folder = infantry_folder

    It most likely means that YES, you can develop new level of weapons anytime you want, but every 2 years there is a barrier similar to the 'historical date" of development in HoI2.

    Which means it's ineffiecient to do that all at once - as it will take ages to develop new model before historical date gets close.

    Looks good on the first glance. Now, whip those betas to make it work perfectly!

  9. #29
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    Open-Ended Techs! Great stuff!

    Furthermore, it seems so much easier to tweak the complex parts now; KUTGW!
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amallric View Post
    Well i'm disappointed. In which way are small arms for militia different from small arms for regular infantry? Militia just used the old models of guns.
    This new system is all about the game balance, not realism.
    Correct, we have game balance and realism. Sometimes we require a game balance solution and sometimes we requires a realism solution.
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  11. #31
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    One could possibly organize the Practical/theoretical levels at the bottom by having one row theoretical and the row under it practical, with the icons following the tabs on the top Infantry -> Air (with possibly some rows being more theoretical in places)

    Question though.
    "Officers" a new concept?
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Tracid View Post
    and more radios-more chatter-more chance for radio intercepts-more intel for enemy-less chance to hide stuff.
    Why would someone who doesn't have the radio tech suddenly get an intelligence advantage over me when I research it?

    And using the same argument my decryption should improve, since I am suddenly able to intercept radio chatter from the enemy.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobb4 View Post
    Call me stupid, Flavour names? Would that be when does a light tank become a medium tank or are you talking Panzer IIF to Panther as in specific model names?
    It's when it changes specific name, like Panzer IV -> Panther. The names are flavour, they are both medium tanks, but one just has more research than the other.
    Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansag View Post
    One could possibly organize the Practical/theoretical levels at the bottom by having one row theoretical and the row under it practical, with the icons following the tabs on the top Infantry -> Air (with possibly some rows being more theoretical in places)

    Question though.
    "Officers" a new concept?
    no. re-read dev diaries. you spend leadership on diplomacy, espionage, research and offiers (ie. the military)

  15. #35
    Eurofederalist Gen.Schuermann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graf Koks View Post
    I can't stop the nagging feeling that this new research system will increase the "OMG wuts betar T34 or Panther"-debates by over 9000%
    But at the same time it will not be compatible anymore to compare, since you can complete build a division by yourself, and that alone makes it different. Also, from the looks of it, you can research the stuff almost without limit, so it's up for constant change, especially considering you can now research different parts of the divisions (better longer barrel, better engine, additional sloped armor)

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter War View Post
    Unlimited? Does that mean we can improve cav unlimited number of times?

    That's the impression i get. Realistic, interesting to balance though. anybody remember the Mod34 AAR with Blue Emu and his nibble-wooshers? Still, maybe not unrelaistic at all. German aircraft design for example was years ahead of allied design. And you will just sacrifice somewhere else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter War View Post
    Why would it lower the chance of keeping my troops hidden?
    Radio chatter. You can pick it up, and the more it is, the more likely it is there are a lot of commanders and a lot of divisions.

    Maybe also add a + modifier for decryption bonus as well? Since you can also detect radio chatter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pal View Post
    Amallric has a point here - the small arms used by militia are not exactly something you would research separately. But then, there needs to be some way to model the outfitting of militia with more modern weaponry. This would only be possible in a realistic way if the equipment was sort of an object, too, so you could take the small arms of an infantry brigade and give it to a militia brigade, while the infantry gets the latest fashion killing toys.
    I think this is to model that some nations just dont have the capabilities to research and build stuff on a division scale, like the arabian minors or the chinese ones. Maybe they are specialized, meaning they are cheap to produce, but maybe to too reliable or raher not too capable.

    Panzerfaust again as an example.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by PIT_AMERO View Post
    It looks pretty interesting!
    But I think that it would be nice if the graphic outlook of the tech screen is improved.
    If I am not mistaken, what we are seeing is the infantry section.
    A country specific or even generic picture of infantry on the page would improve appearance, even if it is just a background image

  17. #37
    Basileus Romaion Nikolai's Avatar
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    What would be the use for an industrial power like Germany or GB to research militia technology? Would it help defend the home lands against invasion, like partisan activity? Would it help on other techs? Or would I as f.ex. Germany have no reason to research it?
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    It's when it changes specific name, like Panzer IV -> Panther. The names are flavour, they are both medium tanks, but one just has more research than the other.
    Could not care if they shoot blanks, this is awesome and long overdue.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by King View Post
    It's when it changes specific name, like Panzer IV -> Panther. The names are flavour, they are both medium tanks, but one just has more research than the other.
    So in the mean time one can assume that if you have Panzer IV's, and you research, it's just modifications to the PzIV (i.e. PzIV A, B, C etc.)

    Will tech's upgrade the Brigades instantly upon research, or will you actually have to use IC's to upgrade the old ones?
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikolai View Post
    What would be the use for an industrial power like Germany or GB to research militia technology? Would it help defend the home lands against invasion, like partisan activity? Would it help on other techs? Or would I as f.ex. Germany have no reason to research it?
    You are under no obligation to research any tech. Militia technologies give you better Militia units, if you have no interest in building Militia then don't research it. The same could be said for Aircraft Carriers or Strategic Bombers as the German player.
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