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Thread: Cosmopolitaine culture in France

  1. #1

    Cosmopolitaine culture in France

    I was wondering if somebody knew why the culture for some provinces in France is 'Cosmopolitaine' ?

    What happened to good old 'French' culture ?

    I do not want to start a debate on this one. I know cultures can be a sensitive subject. I just wanted to understand the logic behind.

    Cosmopolitaine means the mix of different cultures. So I guess that it represents the mix from the Frenc cultures like Norman, Gascon, Occitan, etc ?

  2. #2
    Captain EnragedKiwi's Avatar
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    I think it's just supposed to represent Parisian culture.

  3. #3
    Dei Gratia author dharper's Avatar
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    Well, calling it 'French' wouldn't work because Gascon and Occitaine are also French...so you need a word that refers to 'standard' French, centered around Paris. I have no idea why Paradox chose Cosmopolitaine, but I can't come up with a better term myself.
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  4. #4
    I agree. I just think the word cosmopolitaine is not appropriate. I would much rather see 'Langues d'oïl', or 'Francien' or 'Central French' or even 'Old French'. For me, cosmopolitan culture is something that I would find in present day Toronto.

    I got the names from wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_French

    Thanks for the answer, I now understand that it is from Paradox and not something from Magna Mundi. I think i'll modify my game to change that name for the flavor.

  5. #5
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    Parisian, or Parisien might work. Oil could also work (to counter Oc)

  6. #6
    Comrade Imperator Vladislav's Avatar
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    I like it; it sounds fancy.
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  7. #7
    Perhaps Urbaine (meaning, obviously, urban). Like many people in big cities, Parisians often refer to Paris as "the City" and themselves as "Urban".

  8. #8
    Pacifiste né crash63's Avatar
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    It's quite hard but maybe "langues d'oïl" is best.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langues_d%27o%C3%AFl
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  9. #9
    Financial Director tretii_sleva's Avatar
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    I would just simply put it "French". "Cosmopolitaine" means really - no nationality, it's someone with no roots or origin. Almost sounds as bad as phrase "politically correct".

  10. #10
    Un Canadien Errant Featauril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minchandre View Post
    Perhaps Urbaine (meaning, obviously, urban). Like many people in big cities, Parisians often refer to Paris as "the City" and themselves as "Urban".
    But that is essentially what "cosmopolitaine" means... if you disregard the recent meaning, of course.

  11. #11
    Here is the etymology of the word found on th internet :

    cosmopolitan (adj.)
    1844, from cosmopolite "citizen of the world" (1614), from Gk. kosmopolites, from kosmos "world" (see cosmos) + polites "citizen," from polis "city" (see policy (1)). Cosmopolitanism first recorded 1828.

    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=cosmopolitan

    it seems obvious to me from the etymology that the word does not describe well the 'langues d'oil' of the north of France at the time like Picard and Orleanais.

  12. #12
    Parisian would mostlikely be the best for it.

  13. #13
    Un Canadien Errant Featauril's Avatar
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    For Ile-De-France. mayhaps.

    But for Vendee? No.

    You want something that means "French" but isn't "French", and there is no equivalent to "British - English" or "German - Prussian - Bavarian" or whatnot.

    Cosmopolitaine is as good as it's going to get.

  14. #14
    "Langue d'oïl" seems to be the closest to what is desired, despite its awkwardness. There were two great linguistic groups in France, designated by the way one said 'yes' : "Langue d'oc" (aka "Occitan") and "Langue d'oïl" (without a single word equivalent which would be handy here).

    If you look at a map of the dialects belonging to the "Occitan group", you can see that the area corresponds in EU3 to the (biggest) "Occitain" culture + "Gascon", "Catalan" and "Aquitaine" cultures. Likewise, the area of the "Langue d'oïl" corresponds in EU3 to the (biggest) "Cosmopolitaine" culture + "Norman", "Wallonian" and "Burgondian" cultures.

    So, the counterpart of "Occitain", "Cosmopolitan", could be also named after the language group which is the counterpart to "Occitan" (and I don't know where the second 'i' in "Occitain" comes from).

  15. #15
    First Lieutenant europolis's Avatar
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    you know, being part french myself, and to be ver honest i think the following:
    parisian would be quite accurate, simply because thats what it was always. Truly, paris subjulgated all of 'france', with its culture, its always been like that. and even up til today its a point of great tormoil and arguments inside france, everyone outside of paris hates paris, because they cant have there own culture expressed.

    for instance a few years back brittany was trying to ahve its own language taught in schools ALSO, and other things like that happen all the time. the south west of france(languedoc) is rather italian-ish in my view(as in more old roman then gaulese). and things vary.
    but the ONLY 'french' culture is parisian, you shoudnt mistake france for a 'nation', the truth is that its a very devided region in the globe, where the central aristocracy of paris has always tried to have dominion over. thats why there is no 'french' name for anything, there are simply too many different groups around.

    but still... the appropriate culture, if they knew anything about france(paradox), would be Parisian. the evil paris bullcrap, that oppressed and controlled the whole region. in someway its been that since Charlemaigne, but thats a whole nother story...


    my 2 cents: Parisian.


    cheers

  16. #16
    Second Lieutenant Montcalm's Avatar
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    The language "langue d'Oïl" spoken in the area of Paris and Orleans whom stemmed the modern french language could be called "Francien" (19th century neologism).
    Traditionnally the term French (broad sense) covers the languages of Northern Gaul (walloon, burgundian, norman, picard and "francien") and is so an homonym of "langue d'oïl". But as the kings extended their power over the territory they imposed the Paris's language instead of the regional tongues and so, the "langue d'oïl" from Paris became known as French.
    Till the French Revolution, only a quarter of the inhabitants of France spoke French (as the langue from Paris) in everyday life. French was nonetheless the language of justice, trade, church and administration form the middle of the 16th century.
    Cosmopolitain might refer to the situation of French in the 18th century where the European nobiliary and intellectual elites spoke French in their letters and diplomatic meetings (Remember Diderot and Catherine the Great or Voltaire and Frederic the Great).
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  17. #17
    the french of paris is never called "parisien" it is called "francais parisien" or "francien"



    Francien is nineteenth-century linguists' term applied to the particular langue d'oïl that was spoken in the Île-de-France region (with Paris at its center) before the establishment of the French language as a standard language.[1]

    According to one theory of the development of French, Francien was chosen out of all the competing Oïl languages as an official language (Norman and Picard being the main competitors in the mediaeval period). The theory currently prevailing, however, is that Francien was one of the dialects in the dialect continuum on top of which an administrative language, untrammelled by perceived regionalisms, was imposed as a compromise means of communication and record to replace Latin.

  18. #18
    Personally, and since we're talking about a cultural group rather than just a language, I would go for Francien. It evokes both the frankish roots and foreshadow the upcoming domination of the Ile-de-France region, both culturally and linguistically.

    However I'd suggest to add an event chain like the one in Britain where english, welch and scots become british sometime after the formation of great Britain. We'd have the various sub-cultures become french as the unification and centralisation of the french nation state progresses (combination of NI, Decisions and Policy slider positions).



    G.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by grallonsphere View Post
    Personally, and since we're talking about a cultural group rather than just a language, I would go for Francien. It evokes both the frankish roots and foreshadow the upcoming domination of the Ile-de-France region, both culturally and linguistically.

    However I'd suggest to add an event chain like the one in Britain where english, welch and scots become british sometime after the formation of great Britain. We'd have the various sub-cultures become french as the unification and centralisation of the french nation state progresses (combination of NI, Decisions and Policy slider positions).



    G.
    Only Welsh converts to English.

    The rest is basically unnecessary as France and Great Britain have the "union" effect applied to them, causing all cultures in the French and British culture groups to be treated as accepted.

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