Æthellan: A Tale of Kings

[SplendidTuesday]

And yes, there are quite a few teenagers running amok, aren't there? With William's sons, Hardrada's sons, the King of France and the Holy Roman Emperor all under the age of 25, it seems like Harold Godwinson is Europe's only major grown-up. Of course there's also King Svein in Denmark, and grouchy old Pope Alexander in Rome, and a few others.

Ha! With a grouchy old man and a bunch of ambitious teenagers, I suppose that makes the high nobility of Europe the Scooby Gang. I can imagine the idea of the King of France being the head of the group and saying cheesy things like "It was old man Godwinson all along!" "And I would've gotten away with it, if it weren't for you meddling kids!" Heh.

[AlexanderPrimus]

SplendidTuesday: That's really funny, ST. I about laughed my head off. I can kind of see King Philippe as Fred too... and Daphne would have to already be married off to somebody else. Not that that would stop Philippe/Fred.

[SplendidTuesday]

SplendidTuesday: That's really funny, ST. I about laughed my head off. I can kind of see King Philippe as Fred too... and Daphne would have to already be married off to somebody else. Not that that would stop Philippe/Fred.

Well, of course. Perhaps she's Bertrade de Montfort? Meh, doesn't matter all that much. Now, I can see the Holy Roman Emperor as Shaggy. "Oh no Scoob/Princes of Germany, the Scooby Snacks/Money ran out! Guess we'll have to get more/start getting into a dispute with the Pope!"

[AlexanderPrimus]

SplendidTuesday: I guess that means Velma might have to be Matilda of Canossa then. Oh goodness, what a merry fellowship these four would be together.

[AlexanderPrimus]

Since I won't be able to work on an update until after I finish my big papers and finals in the next couple of weeks, I thought I might come up with something to hold everybody over for a bit - a little game, if you will. So here's the idea:

THE OFFICIAL ÆTHELLAN "1066 AND ALL THAT" CHARACTER CONTEST

As I've mentioned elsewhere, the only butterfly in this story is the Saxon victory at Hastings, with all other changes to the timeline stemming from that solitary alteration. As such, a great many important individuals are eliminated from history. For example, William the Bastard's early death means that Henry I will never be born, and thus neither will Matilda, Henry II, Richard I, John, etc. This pattern is repeated all over the place.

There are also many historical persons who wouldn't necessarily be eliminated from the timeline but would rather play very different roles in history. These are the characters that will be highlighted by this contest.

So what this contest amounts to is an opportunity to influence the future of the story, one character at a time. Everybody is welcome to participate if they're so inclined. The way you participate is simple: A) just pick a favorite historical person that flourished sometime within the parameters of this story (medieval Europe between 1066 and say, 1400), and B) justify his or her inclusion in the story and the new role that he or she would play in history. Above all, make sure that your chosen character would not be eliminated due to the Hastings butterfly.

The winner of this contest will have their chosen character incorporated into the story at the appropriate point in the timeline.


Here is a very barebones example:

A Case for the Inclusion of William Marshal (1144-1219)

A) William Marshal was descended from Norman/French nobility but his ancestors would not necessarily have died as a result of the Hastings butterfly. There is a possibility that he could still have been born.

B) William Marshal would have played a different role in history w/o a strong Anglo-Norman-Angevin dynasty to act as his patrons. He could have wound up as a scion of an adventuring Norman family in Sicily and been an important military figure there. Or he could have helped stabilize the regime of Capetian France.


I hope people feel inclined to participate in this little game. Have fun everybody!

[Christian V]

What a great idea! Then I'll throw in one of William Marshal contemporaries:

A)William Longchamp. Like Marshal of Norman descend. Bishop of Ely, Chancellor and Chief Justiciar.

B)Like Marshal his career would have been different without his Angevin patrons. But, there's still a possibility he would have risen in the ranks of church, or played an important political role for either the duchy of Normandy or the Capets.

[Vesimir]

Cool idea indeed!

Robin of Locksley is my choice. However, he doesn't even have to be anglo-norman, though a norman bandit would be cool too. Don't really have anything to justify it. Except the coolness of him becoming involved in national politics.

[AlexanderPrimus]

Christian V and Vesimir: Good ideas, both of you, and thank you for participating! I'm very glad to see you're enjoying the contest! Now if I may, I'd like to ask you both to give some additional information on your chosen characters - what specific roles would you like to see them play in the story? What kind of people would they be? Why would I want to include your character specifically? And Vesimir, since your character is legendary, when would he best be inserted into the timeline?

[Christian V]

Christian V and Vesimir: Good ideas, both of you, and thank you for participating! I'm very glad to see you're enjoying the contest! Now if I may, I'd like to ask you both to give some additional information on your chosen characters - what specific roles would you like to see them play in the story? What kind of people would they be? Why would I want to include your character specifically? And Vesimir, since your character is legendary, when would he best be inserted into the timeline?

Well, OTL Longchamp was one of Richard the Lionhearts most trusted advisors, and bureacrat of the warrior-king, and regent while the former went on his crusade(untill Prince John brought him down in 1191). I imagine he could fill a similar role for either a the Norman Duke or the king of France in the late 12th Century. He would be the shadow behind the throne. A plotter and politician, and an enemy of England. Perhaps even scheme to bring England in to his 'master's' fold or something along those lines. Or maybe an 'Albrecht von Franken' sort-of-character

Alternatively he could be an immigrant and tutor to one of the future princes of England, and maybe work his way up the system through the favors of his former student. There are many possibilities.

[Alfredian]

I would like to see Hereward the Wake leading a rebellion against the Godwinsons to try and restore the throne to someone from the Right Line of Cerdic (e.g. Eadgar the Atheling).

He should have survived the butterfly effect, and an England with nothing for him to rebel against would be lacking something.

[AllmyJames]

I'd like to see Thomas Becket included. His contest with Henry II was a defining moment of English history, and it would be a shame to have him omitted altogether.

As he was from an Anglo-Norman family, his rise to power would be different after the Hastings butterfly. I can see several possibilities. He could find himself in service to the King of France instead, and be the brilliant Lord Chancellor who blocks English ambitions on the Continent, or perhaps he could have risen further in the church as Archbishop of Rheims, and Cardinal of France (a medieval Richeleau?). With the Capetians being weaker than the English Angevins, this is a real possibility.
Or, what if he was elected to St Peter's throne (a powerful French bishop would surely have more success in this than an English one), and fought the investiture controversy against the English king from a position of greater power than in OTL? It could be a Godwinson who finds himself on the wrong end of two drunken knights...

[Kurt_Steiner]

Simon de Montfort (The younger).

If he ever settles in England, he won't have the earldom of Leicester -as it was an AngloNorman creation-, I would rather think, and without lands, dunno if he would be a troublesome knight for the King -no Magna Carta thus?

Perhaps he would remain in France, fighthing the cathars?

[General_BT]

Eustace the Monk! Because, to quote The Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising, "Everything is better with pirates!"

[Vesimir]

Well, a normano-welsh bandit with noble origins decides to rise up against the tyranny of the king (Or an earl, depends on the scale of the rebellion.) and his banditry eventually evolves into a full scaled rebellion to overthrow the ruler. I think the later half of the XIIth century or the first half of the XIIIth century would be best.

Robin becoming an earl under the king might actually be a better idea than trying to overthrow the king. As a vassal he could become his most trusted aide.

[AlexanderPrimus]

Good ideas, everyone! I'm very glad to see so many people participating.

Now, since every competition needs an end date... how about 1 January 2011 as the deadline for people to make their character submissions? After that date I think we'll have a vote on the most popular entry, with the rule that you can't vote for your own entry.

Christian V: Thanks for the additional info on Longchamp! He seems like a very interesting character, and this story will very likely need some intrigue-based characters in the near future. We can't all be hard-core, axe-wielding Saxon types, after all.

Alfredian: I've got some good news for you--I'm definitely planning on including Hereward the Wake at some point in the near future (though for now I'm going to have to keep quiet about the role he'll be playing). However that does kind of make his entry in this contest a moot point. Feel free to vote again if you like.

AllmyJames: An interesting choice. I've got to admit having pondered what role Thomas Becket would play in my Saxon timeline, if any, though I never did really settle on a satisfactory answer. We'll have to see.

Kurt_Steiner: Simon de Montfort, now there's a doozy! Not sure how I'd get him to England, but I could definitely see him playing an important role in France (or wherever else those darned Normans end up going). Good choice.

General_BT: Ooh! Intriguing. No matter how you look at it, a monk-pirate is going to be a very, very tough competitor to beat.

Vesimir: Not sure how I could get "Normano-Welsh" with William losing at Hastings. However you do pose a very interesting scenario there... it's just going to be tough integrating Robin Hood no matter how we look at it. I don't want to turn this into Ivanhoe, after all. Nevertheless, his inclusion is still a possibility. Could prove to be a really fun cameo.

[phargle]

I am ill-equipped at this point to offer a historical entity to participate, but I wanted to stop by anyway to say that I read your last update and found it to be utterly beautiful. The text, the images, the maps, the family trees. . . it was obvious that care went into the creation of that post, and the quality shined through effortlessly.

[Rabid Bogling]

Vesimir: Not sure how I could get "Normano-Welsh" with William losing at Hastings.

I've a suggestion on that front. Robert of Rhuddlan. Cousin to Hugh d'Avranches, and already an established (albeit petty) lord west of the Dee, courtesy of the Confessor. Take the Earldom of Chester out of the equation, and add a regime hostile to the Normans, and you've essentially got a petty, liegeless warlord on the fringes of Wales.

Perhaps he'd rule his lands as a kind of robber-baron, robbing from the Welsh to keep for himself. Perhaps he'd swear his allegiance to one of the feuding houses of Gwynedd (Mathrafal/Aberffraw), rising to prominence in their service. Or maybe he'd open the floodgates, inviting a horde of Norman adventurers to Wales, Sicilian stylee. Just a thought.

PS: It's Cambro-Norman.

[The_Archduke]

Gruffydd ap Cynan
as a successful King of Wales

or I should say, more successful. With no Normans, he could have come to power in Wales earlier in life.

[Rabid Bogling]

Heh. Here's a wild thought; Normans flocking to join the Varangian Guard, as the English did. You'd end up with Normans fighting Normans in southern Italy.

[Darbuka88]

All caught up. General_BT advertised in 'Rome AARisen' that this was an excellent read, and I must say that I agree with the General. So far this is a much shorter read than BT's behemoth, of which I still have about 70 pages to read. I'm looking forward to being in on this one from close to the ground floor. Seeing a well written story unfold slowly is a completely different experience. Cheers!