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Thread: Democracy's Last Legs: A US - UK DAIM AAR

  1. #1841
    Feldmarschall von Toiletkrieg hebelecan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OAM View Post


    Russia... What is the status of St.Petersburg?
    St.Petersburg/Leningrad is a no-go cause it was the capital of The Empire. It should be Sevastapol or Novorosisk would be fit IMO.

    For Germany, Wolfsburg, close the Berlin, like India did might be good. Otherwise Hamburg is a great option.

    UK, it should be in England, anywhere that hasn't been nuked yet qualifies.

  2. #1842
    GDI Commander OAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hebelecan View Post
    St.Petersburg/Leningrad is a no-go cause it was the capital of The Empire. It should be Sevastapol or Novorosisk would be fit IMO.

    For Germany, Wolfsburg, close the Berlin, like India did might be good. Otherwise Hamburg is a great option.

    UK, it should be in England, anywhere that hasn't been nuked yet qualifies.
    Well, Sevastapol would be... wierd...

    I picked Scotland because I'm not sure if any of the English choices havn't been nuked

  3. #1843
    My point is that USA should a bit, how to say STFU about antinazi propaganda (No offense), because it cant afford such.
    And here we roll into the next bit. One I have established that Germany frankly isn't going to war with the US at this point. This means there is no real not to speak badly of Nazi Germany. Besides which nations do not tend to go to war over folks speaking badly of them. Has the United States bombed Iran for calling it the Great Satan? Has China done anything to the US over all the nasty things said about it over here? Or the on going bits in both the US and Russia about each other? A series of radio broadcasts where an American says unkind things won't start a war. Not unless it's backed up with action and the US bluntly can't back it up. So why worry? Frankly the German government is unlikely to give a shit, at least not until after the civil war is over.


    Now as to why an American broadcast would say such unkind things about Germany?

    Most of the listeners have grown up fighting Germany, it's 1954. The United States was at war with Germany for over 10 years. Anyone born after 1935 bluntly isn't going to remember a time when Germany wasn't opposed to the US. Also every family will have lost someone to German bombings or battles in Europe. In other words, the Germans are easy targets. Hell I would bet most blue eyed blonds in the US dye their hair brown to avoid being associated with Germans, even in the fascist parts.

    And easy targets are needed. The entire population is in engaged at some level or another in the act of killing each other. Liberty Radio is trying to convince Americans to stop murdering each other wholesale. One way to do that is to remind them that there are plenty of other enemies out there and those enemies are deeply responsible for their personal suffering. Not to mention that 3 of the 4 governments fighting it out for control of the USA are cheap carbon copies of said enemy.

    In order to win the mental/emotional war, Liberty Radio needs to remind Americans of their shared values and heritage of their past national unity and blame someone else for their suffering.

    So no, there is not going to be any shutting up. The Germans don't give a shit. If anything they're more worried about what's going on in Asia. Or they should be.

    I think it's been stated earlier, but much of the German civilian population would have been evacuated east from the allied advance into Europe - it was quite slow through all those fortifications. Ok, no evacuation from the nukes, but losses would have been lower.
    And on what rail cars would they go east on? On what rail roads? Every rail car full of people is one not carrying fuel, ammo and food for the troops. Bluntly the logistics aren't there to move millions of people over a thousand miles and set them up in hostile territory without leaving them die at the hands of angry partisans.

    It's very unlikely that Germany could have moved that many people given how much else it has to move and over how much territory. Not to mention moving those people slows down the military units that are needed to actually stop the Allies. If the people fled, which is likely they did it themselves with very little government help.
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  4. #1844
    Skeptic Taijian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OAM View Post
    Germany, Hamburg gets my vote.
    Sorry to say so (as a native of Hamburg), but that's a really bad choice, historically. If Frankfurt wasn't bombed, that should be your first choice, after all this was were new emperors were crowned for several hundert years. If that's been nuked, take Nuremberg/Regensburg - this was where the Imperial Regalia were being kept for centuries and where the old Reichstag convened. (all of this refers to the First Empire - the Holy Roman one.)

  5. #1845
    Feldmarschall von Toiletkrieg hebelecan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taijian View Post
    Sorry to say so (as a native of Hamburg), but that's a really bad choice, historically. If Frankfurt wasn't bombed, that should be your first choice, after all this was were new emperors were crowned for several hundert years. If that's been nuked, take Nuremberg/Regensburg - this was where the Imperial Regalia were being kept for centuries and where the old Reichstag convened. (all of this refers to the First Empire - the Holy Roman one.)
    We are on the same page, I would of said Vienna, Munich or Nüremberg if they all haven't gotten nuked.

  6. #1846
    GDI Commander OAM's Avatar
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    I thought Frankfurt did get bombed, one of last few.

    Gah, this is becomming a problem, going to back to the index because I think there is a list there. (Munich was bombed too, right?)

  7. #1847
    GDI Commander OAM's Avatar
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    Sorry if this is a double post, might be if I write it fast, but here a list of what hass been nuked.

    Italy (forgotten they had been nuked at all x.x):
    Florence
    Rimini

    Russia:
    Moscow

    UK:
    Sheffield
    Liverpool
    Birmingham
    Glasgow (ok, so it was nuked anyway )
    Edinburgh
    Norwich (twice)
    London
    Liverpool (I thought this one was spared x.x)

    Germany:
    Berlin
    Vienna
    Prague
    Gottingen
    Wolfsburg
    Munich

    US:
    Philadelphia
    Detroit
    New York
    Atlantic City
    Washington DC

    Grand total of 24 unless I counted wrong.

  8. #1848
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    Someone needs to come up with an overall estimated count of dead after this is over. It's got to be astounding.

  9. #1849
    The Devil's Harlot Austria Hungary's Avatar
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    Total causalities.


    UK:
    Sheffield 400,000
    Birmingham 2,000,000
    Glasgow 500,000
    Edinburgh 400,000
    Norwich 80,000
    London 6,000,000
    Liverpool 320,000

    Total:9,700,000

    Germany:
    Berlin 3-4,000,000
    Vienna 1,500,000
    Prague 800,000
    Gottingen 80,000
    Wolfsburg 90,000
    Munich 1,000,000

    Total: 7,470,000

    US:
    Philadelphia 1,500,000
    Detroit 600,000
    New York 7,000,000
    Atlantic City 30,000
    Washington DC 2,500,000

    Total:11,630,000

    The causalities would be this high from the nuclear fallout spreading to the Metropolitan zones around the larger cities.

  10. #1850
    GDI Commander OAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austria Hungary View Post
    Total causalities.


    UK:
    Sheffield 400,000
    Birmingham 2,000,000
    Glasgow 500,000
    Edinburgh 400,000
    Norwich 80,000
    London 6,000,000
    Liverpool 320,000

    Total:9,700,000

    Germany:
    Berlin 3-4,000,000
    Vienna 1,500,000
    Prague 800,000
    Gottingen 80,000
    Wolfsburg 90,000
    Munich 1,000,000

    Total: 7,470,000

    US:
    Philadelphia 1,500,000
    Detroit 600,000
    New York 7,000,000
    Atlantic City 30,000
    Washington DC 2,500,000

    Total:11,630,000

    The causalities would be this high from the nuclear fallout spreading to the Metropolitan zones around the larger cities.
    Now do for the whole war, and not just the bombs .

  11. #1851
    Deaths from the Atom bomb wouldn't be 100%. The Hiroshima bomb killed roughly 140,000 out of 300,000 (give or take 10,000). That's more or less 46%.

    Quick question are those modern population counts? Because if they are in the 1950s the people per city would be lower. In this timeline it would be lower then OTL 1950s as well.
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  12. #1852
    GDI Commander OAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frigidmagi View Post
    Deaths from the Atom bomb wouldn't be 100%. The Hiroshima bomb killed roughly 140,000 out of 300,000 (give or take 10,000). That's more or less 46%.

    Quick question are those modern population counts? Because if they are in the 1950s the people per city would be lower. In this timeline it would be lower then OTL 1950s as well.
    I thought so at first too, but remember, these bombs were bigger then hiroshima and combines fallout figures with it.

  13. #1853
    The Devil's Harlot Austria Hungary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OAM View Post
    I thought so at first too, but remember, these bombs were bigger then hiroshima and combines fallout figures with it.
    Exactly, I did rough estimates of Population growth in the 50s and and factored the towns and suburban areas that surrounds cities. The Fallout effect would have been devastating for many many miles.

  14. #1854
    GDI Commander OAM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austria Hungary View Post
    Exactly, I did rough estimates of Population growth in the 50s and and factored the towns and suburban areas that surrounds cities. The Fallout effect would have been devastating for many many miles.
    Though this reminds me, suburbs were a product of WWII ending...

  15. #1855
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    but then again, think about the nuclear winter, and the contamination of food provoked by radiation, along to smaller productions of food. that should have killed some 100 million people after a 14 years total war.
    in the 50s the population was around 3 billion, in this timeline it should be around 2.4-2.3 billions.
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  16. #1856
    Feldmarschall von Toiletkrieg hebelecan's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that China was also destroyed, by 3 full scale wars
    Japan, US, SU
    My rough estimate of population in the entire world is around 1.8-2 billion. Mostly in Africa and South America.

  17. #1857
    Defender of Democracy {LD}Firestorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austria Hungary View Post
    Total causalities.

    [snip...]

    Total:11,630,000

    The causalities would be this high from the nuclear fallout spreading to the Metropolitan zones around the larger cities.
    I think I love you. You have no idea how hard I was trying to find population figures for that time period to put in a post.

    In fact, I've been working on estimated military casualties for the major powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delex
    (War reperations, disbanding the army navy, giving up colonies, naval bases ETC...).
    Naval bases (Iceland)
    Reparations: Those were added in, but the event fired much later than I expected. You will see that in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by OAM
    Also yes, wheres that map of Europe?!?
    It is coming. I still have an event somewhere that is bugging things up I am de-bugging. I still have enough updates to go that I can work on it without holding the AAR up. That would be why I am not posting every two days anymore too (aside from work).

    frigidmagi: Thanks for explaining it for me. Your explanations are more in-depth and well detailed then I would ever do them, so thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by frigidmagi
    And on what rail cars would they go east on? On what rail roads? Every rail car full of people is one not carrying fuel, ammo and food for the troops. Bluntly the logistics aren't there to move millions of people over a thousand miles and set them up in hostile territory without leaving them die at the hands of angry partisans.

    It's very unlikely that Germany could have moved that many people given how much else it has to move and over how much territory. Not to mention moving those people slows down the military units that are needed to actually stop the Allies. If the people fled, which is likely they did it themselves with very little government help.
    He did have a good point, because there was a significant military presence in the Ukraine and east for much of the war up until the very last offensive (when they recalled many reserves). I would imagine it was done without significant help from the government myself, as like you said, the military was in heavy demand of the transportation system.

    The advance through the forts was very slow, and I think alot of people would have had the chance to leave if they wanted to. I would think most would have left after their city changed hands a 3rd...a 4th...or a 5th time.

    Quote Originally Posted by rule_them_all
    but then again, think about the nuclear winter, and the contamination of food provoked by radiation, along to smaller productions of food. that should have killed some 100 million people after a 14 years total war.
    in the 50s the population was around 3 billion, in this timeline it should be around 2.4-2.3 billions.
    I don't think enough nukes went off to induce nuclear winter, but Britain would suffer the most from widespread radiation.

    Speaking of which, my next update will touch base on the food situations of the globe. Considering the following....
    -USA is in turmoil
    -much of western Europe is still devastated
    -Soviet Blockade of Japan will make fishing difficult
    -China + Soviet Union has much of its population at war

    It will be easy to see where I will go with it


    So many people to respond to, but I hope that covers much of the questions out there.
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  18. #1858
    Defender of Democracy {LD}Firestorm's Avatar
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    BBC Home and Forces Program – February 23rd, 1954

    February 23rd, 1954

    BBC Home and Forces Program

    "This is the BBC home and forces program. This is Bruce Belfrage. The world food crisis is reaching its peak, as food stores across the globe run low on supplies. In Germany and the incorporated regions to the east, lines of several hundred people long could be seen in most major urban centers. The government has been attempting to rectify this problem, by offering incentives for nations to export to Europe. This drive has been directed mainly at the South American exporters, whom still have an economic embargo on the warring nations in North America."

    "The Confederate States of America and the United States of America have had problems of their own. California continues to gobble up the American prairies, and along with it large stores of food and supplies. California, however, was unable to exploit its success and much of the captured stores were ruined by guerrilla tactics employed by retreating American units. As the long, cold winter drags on, starvation continues to rage rampant across the entire continent. Several thousand have died from starvation, while several thousand more have fallen ill due to malnutrition."

    "The Asian war with the Soviet Union has led to a severe decline in food production. Fishing has been reduced by some 85% as naval forces disrupt the seas around Japan, China, and Korea. The Soviet, Japanese, and Chinese populations continue to suffer the worst as each country continues to prioritize their army over their civilian needs. There are reports of growing unrest in China as the starvation problem grows. It is reported that as many as 240,000 have died as a result of starvation."

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  19. #1859
    Aw no Liberty Radio?
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  20. #1860
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    I like ole Bruce Belfrage.

    It looks like the breakaway states are mostly fighting each other, to your benefit. Time is on your side with all the IC and lowering dissent..

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