Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Democracy's Last Legs: A US - UK DAIM AAR

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Ciryandor said:
Finland should get those two border provinces from Russia IMO, set up Palestine covering the Sinai Peninsula, modern day Israel and Jordan, Leave Syria and Lebanon as they are,
Click to expand...
The Germans will probably not care one way or another how the Arabs organize their own states as long as they obey orders from Berlin.

Egypt though... I wonder, Italy was also badly ruined in the war... are they powerful to hold on to Egypt as an occupied land? Egypt is the largest Arab country with dozens of millions of people. Italy is already policing the Balkans, and populous Algeria. Eventually they'll have to release Egypt as a puppet, I think...

consolidate the Arabian Peninsula into a single Arabian Caliphate, create Kurdistan from northern Iraq and northwest Persia but merge Kuwait into Iraq; pressure Turkey to give up a province for Kurdistan.
Click to expand...
A landlocked Kurdish state is totally impractical. Besides, both Turkey and the guys who briefly ran Iraq in 1941 had excellent relations with Germany so why carve them up...

Italy should get Egypt and Sudan to merge its holdings in northeast Africa, Germany regains Mittelafrika and gains the former Belgian Congo.
Click to expand...
I doubt Germany would enjoy direct colonialism very much. They have all the settlement land they would ever want in eastern Europe, and could much better trade for Africa's resources than run the continent directly. Maybe they would want air and naval bases, though, in Dakar for one (best spot for dominating the central Atlantic) and also one in Waalfisbai (central section of Namibian coast) for dominating the approaches from the Atlantic to the Cape of Good Hope. The remainder of Africa might just as well remain in Vichyfrench/Belgian/Italian hands as far as Berlin is concerned.

In Asia, Philippines and Indonesia gain independence; Nationalist China flees to Taiwan (?) Communist Indochina is formed, India and Pakistan gains independence.
Click to expand...
I guess the Soviets might end up forcing communism onto all of those new nations though. And Japan unless they can prevent a Soviet invasion. :eek:o Any help that Firestorm can provide to Japan and Australia should be welcome... and critical even...
 
I think in the short term, the colonial holdings will hold. If nothing else, the Europeans have proven that they are quite willing and able to nuke themselves into the great beyond. I'm sure they'd have no trouble doing it to colonials.

And while it may not be accurately portrayed in game, one has to assume that part of the deal with England's surrender and resupply by Germany was that the British nuclear program is under German control, a sort of stopgap until they get their own program running again. In short, the Europeans are on a warpath with superior technology - now is not the time to get cute. Maybe when things settle down and war fatigue really hits, or in a generation when their demographics are utterly screwed.
 
@ Leviathan
Egypt at that time was hardly the populous state it is today, but still a major center; and the Italians wouldn't give up Suez so easily when their north-eastern industrial centers were safe from Allied devastation. As for Turkey, well, it could potentially absorb Iraq as well if relations were really that cozy with the Axis, as they'd want all the Kurds under their control; but the reason I'd want the Kurds out of the Turkish lands is because of something that happened with the Armenians barely two decades before. The Turks woudln't want to have to do that again. Also, I disagree with non-control of the African holdings, simply for the reason that rebuilding Europe is going to require total exploitation of resources from Africa, if not resettlement of displaced populations. Alternatively, once South African Boers take power, they can "consolidate" their holdings in southern Africa in return for hegemonial acknowledgement of Germany and basing rights. As for Asia, independence does not necessarily equate with being democratic and all that. India and Pakistan would undoubtedly fall under the Axis sphere, while for South East Asia, it's not yet completely assured that the DEI would become Communist. Germany and the Low Countries Union (Belgium+Netherlands) would certainly object, since it's their colonial land, while the Philippines IMO would either become a no-man's land without any regional or world powers to prop them up plus the latent desire of citizens there to be against foreign domination (400 years against Spain, 40 against the US, do you think they'd accept Soviet "advisers"?); most likely, it becomes a Paternal Autocrat state but not Fascist w/ socialist undertones.
 
I will be answering indepth when I get home later today. But as for a few questions I saw creep up:

Finland is still Soviet. Germany would not give them anything. The Finnish state of affairs, however, may change in the coming years as the Fascist states around them isolate Finland from the Soviets. It is quite possible that a war, be it civil or with Scandinavia, is possible. Alternatively, the Communist ruling part may be over thrown. I don't know what I am going to do in that regards.

As for anything South of Cairo: These are not official! I know it looks messy, but that is because a) war is still taking place in south Africa, and b) I have not go around to rearranging those border. All it requires is to take a look at the news post with south Africa in it to see how bad of a mess it is.

Portugal: I gave them that piece of land because a) Portugal sided with Germany, and provided several airbases + naval bases in the Atlantic for Germany to attack Allied shipping and naval forces with. b) That province, according to a pop. distribution map I saw, had a significant (40%?) Portuguese population. Spain, who sided with the Allies, was not about to get off scotch free. But if it seems unrealistic, I can change that.

Colonies, I don't know how I am going to sort that out. Suggestions, as you guys are doing, are wonderful and I look forward to reading more should you guys put them out there.

Yes, the Soviets will be eying the Pacific as it looks to expand Communism. India, that is already under Soviet rule, so I don't know how well Fascism is going to influence them, as Ciryandor suggested. Russia is acting as a buffer state from the Soviet Union, as it a) fears possible Soviet expansion and b) won't attack Germany for that reason.

Another thing someone touched on: Europe is going to have a huge technological lead coming going into the 1960s. They are starting to recover while everywhere else is still at war.


===============

As for individual responses to each of your posts, I will do that when I get back. Please do continue discussing though, this is helping alot. I didn't have enough time right now to cover everything I wanted to, so I will be doing more of that when I get home.
 
MadVlad said:
The Nazis themselves have been overthrown though, I believe. Germany is still looking at Hitler as the father of the nation, so to speak, but the rest of the inner circle chaps are done for. So that gives some wiggle room in terms of geopolitics.

The problem I imagine is that there simply aren't enough Germans to pacify (let alone colonize!) all that territory. Most likely they made a deal with the chaps in Moscow, letting a couple of thugs rule western Russia with an iron fist in exchange for cooperating with the Germans. And those chaps aren't going to be able to attack their puppet masters too quickly or too overtly because they've got a very hostile USSR on their border, and no doubt many saboteurs on the inside as well.
Click to expand...
The capital won't be Moscow, it was nuked remember?:)

I don't think the Nazis were overthrown, but I do remember that Hitler was killed or something. I guess it depends on who's the leader of the Reich now. If it's Himmler or some other die-hard Nazi, then there's no way they would let Russia free.

Also, you have to remember that almost all of Germany was destroyed by war. That would produce tens of millions of refugees--enough to colonise and pacify significant parts of Russia. Not to mention that with Germany nuked to oblivion, all remaining major industrial centers would be located much away from Germany. It just doesn't make sense story wise that Russia would be free.
 
Well yes, suppose the hamlet of Moscow is not the best place from which to govern:rofl:

For the rest of it though - that's alot, most of which is still very much occupied by nonfriendly Russians/Ukrainians/Poles. While a reclamation will obviously occur, there's more than enough land for those that remain. I'm still under the impression that the entire Nazi hierarchy has fallen, but even if it hasn't... I would think the population losses would shift their views, if only for practicality. As long as the slavs aren't communists, then perhaps they do have a place in this new world order. Germany can't afford to spend the next fifty years policing such a large area while it's remaining citizenry are sniped at. Anything to help pacify the region ought to be strongly considered.

One thing that's been forgotten about is that the Germans have a massive supply of manpower in the form of captured American troops. Nuclear attacks devastated the cities in Germany true, but as has been pointed out it didn't wipe them off the map entirely and make the land barren for a thousand years. And given how infrastructure for refugees to move form one place to another can't be what anyone would call 'good', it perhaps makes more sense to use the Americans to rebuild German cities, and move a much smaller and more controlled population into eastern settlements.
 
MadVlad said:
Well yes, suppose the hamlet of Moscow is not the best place from which to govern:rofl:

For the rest of it though - that's alot, most of which is still very much occupied by nonfriendly Russians/Ukrainians/Poles. While a reclamation will obviously occur, there's more than enough land for those that remain. I'm still under the impression that the entire Nazi hierarchy has fallen, but even if it hasn't... I would think the population losses would shift their views, if only for practicality. As long as the slavs aren't communists, then perhaps they do have a place in this new world order. Germany can't afford to spend the next fifty years policing such a large area while it's remaining citizenry are sniped at. Anything to help pacify the region ought to be strongly considered.

One thing that's been forgotten about is that the Germans have a massive supply of manpower in the form of captured American troops. Nuclear attacks devastated the cities in Germany true, but as has been pointed out it didn't wipe them off the map entirely and make the land barren for a thousand years. And given how infrastructure for refugees to move form one place to another can't be what anyone would call 'good', it perhaps makes more sense to use the Americans to rebuild German cities, and move a much smaller and more controlled population into eastern settlements.
Click to expand...
I see what you're saying, and it makes sense if the Germans were run by sane people. If the Nazis were overthrown, I would agree with you a hundred percent.

However, if the Nazis were not, then they would never ever ever let the Slavs free. Remember that historically, the Nazis continued the Final Solution even when the Russians were practically at their doorstep. The SS officers and the material to run the camps could easily have gone into reinforcing the troops at the front line. While the American troops could provide manpower, it would still take years to get Germany on it's feet again. Armies of millions of men fought across the land, with some provinces changing hands dozens of times. Imagine the trench warfare of WWI, and increase the scale across the entire German homeland. While nukes alone probably wouldn't have done the most damage, the inch by inch fighting would certainly have finished the job.

Also, keeping Western Russian would help remind the Germans that they "won." In reality, it was more of a truce between Germany and the US, but the German leadership (whether it be Nazis or not) will want to spin it as a great victory for the Reich. Releasing Western Russia would seem like proclaiming to the entire world that, "We lost too many men and material so we can't control the lands that we conquered." The German people would want to have a result of their years of fighting, and extending the German empire's border would a great propaganda victory.

I'm going to go and skim through the AAR to check what happenned to Germany's leadership.


Edit: Ugh, nevermind. Yeah, the Nazis were overthrown. However, my points on everything except the ones including the Nazis still kinda stand (The industry, German refugees, propaganda victory, saving face, etc.)
 
Last edited:
Well, they won a great victory for the Reich. Both the Soviet and American armies were utterly annhihilated, then the US, UK and the Soviets were tricked into fighting each other and to top it off America was thrown into civil war. They did unrealistically well on a grandiose scale and have no opposition left.

Still, they simply cannot realistically hold onto all the conquered territory. There comes a time when the drafted troops want to return to their families and start rebuilding, especially now that all enemies have been crueshed on the battlefield. The Germans desperately need peace, not a massive insurgency in an area six or seven times as large as their core territory.

How should such a large area even be settled, reallistically? Even presuming that civilian casualties among the Germans remained relatively low despite everything that happened in the war, where should all those settlers come from and how could you ever protect them against revengeful partisans?

Just take a look at occupied Yugoslavia if you want to know how much manpower a partisan movement really ties up. If I remember correctly, over a dozen divisions had to remain in Yugislavia throughout the world war to hold Tito in check and those divisions barely managed to secure some key strategic areas while leaving most of the countryside to the insurgents. You would at least have to double the number of troops required for anti-partisan-duty if you started to move settlers in and still many of those poor people would die and all of them would have to fear for their lifes for years to come - and compared to Russia Yugoslavia is a tiny area.


There is no choice but to establish a collaborational puppet regime in Russia and let the Russians sort out their own war-related problems. That doesn't have to mean that Nazi Germans abandoned their Lebensraum-ideology. There can still be a planned immigration of German speaking people into those countries under supvervision and with the approval of that nation's government which would do a much better job at keeping support for partisan movements down and ensuring the immigrant's safety.
And in the end, puppet states can always be absorbed later on when the German mainland has recovered from the war.


@ map: Kopenhagen, that other island in the Batlic Sea and Iceland should be Scandinavian rather than German, shouldn't they?
Otherwise, I think you did a good job with post-war-Europe. As for Africa and the Middle East, I also think that Nazi Germany likely would have released lots of puppet regimes in the Middle East and left Africa mostly to Italian ambitions. Perhaps they would reclaim the colonies lost after WW1 and want to keep one or two important naval bases, but otherwise they have eastern Europe to worry about. Perhaps Belgian Congo or some other rich colony that promises profit, but they certainly wouldn't want to bother with lots of worthless sand and jungle at this point.
 
To correct how much manpower they had to commit to Yugoslavia, it was 32 divisions IIRC. And yes, puppet regimes would be a better answer for Russia.
 
That is why Russia is there. German settlement moved east as western Germany was quite literally flattened from back and forth fighting over those provinces for several years.

Copenhagen...should I keep it German as to make sure they have controlling access to the Baltic, or should it go to Scandinavia?

I will hopefully be posting a new update tonight.
 
Crete to Germany, for a Naval base and airfield in the Med, and Cyprus to Italy.

I think client states in the Middle East make sense, maybe have Iraq, Syria and Trans-jordan and/or Palestine as German puppets.

I think Germany should keep Copenhagen to control the straits, entrance to the Baltic is obviously very important to the Reich. In fact, I'd say give the rest of Denmark to Germany (control of the coasts plus power projection into the North Sea) and make vague promises about Finland to Scandinavia in exchange.

I'm all for a Russian client state, glad you're keeping it. As for the capital, I'd recommend St. Petersburg for two reasons. 1) It emphasizes the new western focus Russia will be having, ie oriented towards Berlin, and 2) it's a lot closer than Moscow is to the borders just in case the military should have to pay a visit sometime in the future. Nothing like a little military pressure to keep the puppets in line.

Finally, a quick question: what's the status of Greece? I apologize if I overlooked this, but are they a puppet and, if so, of whom?
 
Good idea for a new Russian capital. I think I might return Denmark to Germany for those 'promises' that you suggested, as Finland will be....a focus of events in the future.

Greece, as of the moment is an independent nation. YES that will change, but thank you for bringing that up. What should I do with it? Incorporate it into Italy? Make it an Italian puppet?
 
I'd probably just incorporate Greece into Italy, but making them a semi-occupied puppet state of Italy might work just as well. Either way, you could give Salonika to Bulgaria and, if Italy annexes Greece outright, possibly even Thessaly.
 
For Finland...If it's the last ally of the Soviet..it should be very difficult to take out the communist without direct assault. In Stalin place, I would have done anything in my power to reinforce Finland..
 
Was too late for an update today. I got most of the update finished, but too tired to finish it. Will be up tomorrow!

And I think Greece disappears.
 
{LD}Firestorm said:
Portugal: I gave them that piece of land because a) Portugal sided with Germany, and provided several airbases + naval bases in the Atlantic for Germany to attack Allied shipping and naval forces with. b) That province, according to a pop. distribution map I saw, had a significant (40%?) Portuguese population. Spain, who sided with the Allies, was not about to get off scotch free. But if it seems unrealistic, I can change that.
Click to expand...

That map is a fake. In Galicia there's no portuguese population.

PS: If you want to reward Portugal, create Iberia under Lissabon control.
 
map-Europe-1914.jpg


From 1914, I was going based on this one.

What would Iberia look like? Is that all of Spain + Portugal as well?
 
{LD}Firestorm said:
map-Europe-1914.jpg


From 1914, I was going based on this one.

What would Iberia look like? Is that all of Spain + Portugal as well?
Click to expand...

Exactly, claiming Gibraltar, Andorra and, perhaps, Iparralde and Rosellón. About the map, I never heard about portuguese minorities. I asked to the galicians I know and all say the same: There's no portuguese people in Galicia.

And, if they were, there's no real differences between a spanish and a portuguese.
 
CBC World News – January 27th, 1955

January 27th, 1955

CBC World News

"The world today. The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation now presents a summary of the all the important world news today. Reports from CBC correspondents by trans-America short wave radio, and the latest developments as received by the Canada's news room here in Ottawa. Tonight we will be reporting on the latest military events from the United States and abroad via our correspondents in Chicago, Ottawa, and Berlin."

"Good evening Canada, this is your host Tommy Forever speaking. Today, reports on the American Civil War and the Soviet drives in China make the headlines."

"In China, the Soviet Red Army has driven 320,000 Chinese soldiers into a pocket, now isolated after the capture of the Chinese capital and the surrounding regions. In Burma, a further 670,000 soldiers have been cut off and are forming a defensive ring around the Rangoon. The Soviets have paid a heavy price for their advance through the Burmese jungles, at a loss of 232,000 killed and a further 82,000 wounded. Many of these casualties come from the inadequate training in jungle warfare, as well as diseases caused from open wounds. In southern China, Chinese forces continue to withdraw to the Vietnam region, hoping to create a solid defensive line from Thailand to South China Sea, and wait for Japanese reinforcements. The Chinese government had pleaded with the American US government for military assistance, but these pleas fall of deaf ears."

"Just south of the border, the breakaway state of California has officially surrendered to the US government. After suffering staggering defeats from being trapped between both Confederate and US armies, and the loss of their capital and military supply bases, it became quite apparent that further resistance was futile. While Californian forces in the west were disbanded, many divisions that were facing the Confederacy have decided to join the CSA in their efforts to defeat the US government. Many still see the US government has the cause for much of the suffering that has occurred on the continent, as well as the cause for the many millions that lost their lives in the Second World War."

"The German satellite, nicknamed Blondie I, has continued its path successfully in earth's orbit. After a successful launch several weeks ago by a German A-11 rocket at Weltraumbahnhof Rügen, it is a key milestone in the German space program, as well as the scientific community in Europe. The data provided by this satellite about our outer atmosphere will be a valuable asset to our understanding of earth, and the lessons learned from the launch will prove to be a monumental asset to further space travels. Werhner von Braun, head of the Programm zur Eroberung des Weltalls, or Program for the Conquest of Space, states that he hopes to have a man on the moon within the next decade."

ScreenSave59.jpg


ScreenSave63.jpg


ScreenSave64.jpg


ScreenSave65.jpg


**Now, it is me against the Confederacy. The Confederates have a significant armor base, while I lag behind in armor production (quickly working on that though)**
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back