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Thread: Democracy's Last Legs: A US - UK DAIM AAR

  1. #1041
    Defender of Democracy {LD}Firestorm's Avatar
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    No kidding. That really angered me. I'll be posting another update later today.
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  2. #1042
    I think after this, war will look so grim that there will be none anymore. This is the worst looking situation in any Hoi2 scenario I have ever seen. Great work.

  3. #1043
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    No kidding. I bet in this reality nukes would be immediately outlawed to any nation, with the US being the only country allowed to have them. Germany will probably be completely dismantled as a country, balkanized into different, smaller states, each under heavy allied occupation. Their industries would be completely dismantled, and their top scientists would probably be interned for the rest of their lives. The soviet union would probably suffer a similar fate.
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  4. #1044
    Defender of Democracy {LD}Firestorm's Avatar
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    That is, of course, assuming we win

    But yes, if we win that is sure to be what would happen.
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  5. #1045
    Assuming that the Allies win, this is what I figure happens next.

    1: The Colonial Empires are dead. Given that none of the Euro nations will have the manpower, or the money to hold on to them, the Africans and Asians are just gonna walk out. Certainly a war weary US won't want to bleed for them and China and Japan will have better things to do. On the flip a US that just nuked Nazi Germany into submission certainly can bully the 3rd world into dropping any ideas of revenge on Europe. At least for a few generations.

    2: England is going to be a total dependent on the US. To a lesser extent, all of Western Europe is going to be. So will large chunks of Asia, as Korea is likely in ruins and India certainly is (think about it, India has changed hands 3 times in this game, mass tank battles are not kind to a nation).

    3: The decade after the end of the war will be one of exhaustion and rebuilding. You will likely see alot of pressure for conformity and security. On the flip side anyone who is alive and whole will have a job. If nothing else keeping everyone feed for require a massive effort. This is somewhat like the 1950s was for us, only more so and less so. Since America will have to spend billions rebuilding the East Coast. The decade after that is likely to be more of the same. Europe in our timeline didn't really recover until the late 70s. Think more early 2000 teens in this one.

    4: Immigration will spike. Western Europe and to a lesser extent the US, will need warm bodies capable of keeping the farms and reconstitution factories going. As at this point the male German population is likely about vanished from ages 15 to 55. The French, Dutch, Beligum, Italians and Swedes won't be any better off. The English... Ye Gods the English. I'm not sure there's enough English left to maintain themselves. Immigrates will be fleeing areas like South America, Europe, and Asia. Latin America will likely export it's surplus worker population (surplus compared to the rest of us).

    5: There will be a baby boom. Later. Once the killing stops and the food situation is made stable people will start having children. And there will be a lot of space for them. The Economic pressure for workers (and taxpayers) will ensure alot of social support for this.

    6: The US will be among those recovering first. The damage done to the entire planet will be much worse. This means the period of US economic and political dominance will be longer and in some ways more total without the USSR as a counter balance. Another reason for this is the fact that the Canadian/American Farm-belt is the last really untouched mass food producing area on Earth. People follow who can give them bread.

    7: Pacifism will become a much more powerful political movement. When the "Hippies" show up they will be doing so after large chunks of the planet have suffered the results of thermonuclear war. People are certainly going to see a bigger attraction into Peace, Love and Dope. Despite the splashiness of it, it was never more then a minority position/ youth fad (most of the kids who chanted at Woodstock became the leaders of the Greed is Good bit in the 80s. Biggest sale out ever.) this time? Who knows.

    8: The 60s in our time line is when everyone really started to think of the implications of World War II and the Cold War. Those things we can't talk about because they make paradox's ears bleed? The utter destruction of nations? The nuclear exchange? This means the 80s are gonna be very, very weird. As if I'm right that's when everyone actually starts to think about what this means. Questions like "Where was God?" "How could this have happened?" "What are we that we could do this?" will see the first public and mass debates. It's gonna be... touchy.
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  6. #1046
    Defender of Democracy {LD}Firestorm's Avatar
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    BBC Home and Forces Program June 28th, 1952

    June 28th, 1952

    BBC Home and Forces Program

    "This is the BBC home and forces program. This is Bruce Belfrage. The retreat westward continues as successive German attacks continue to shatter the Allied armies. Allied divisions have also been plagued by Axis air assaults which continue day and night, inflicting significant damage. The retreat forces have been covered by American mechanized and armored divisions, which scorch the earth behind them as they attempt to shroud their movements from the German airforce. Massive fires have been lit across the entire front, which has so far been successful in thwarting German bombing runs. With the sky black with soot, it has been an effective counter-measure. The physiological impact of this, however, questions its practicality. When the retreating forces look behind them, all they see is a glowing red sky with a constant black sky. This cover also prevents armor from engaging targets at their optimal range by both Allied and Axis armies."

    "The recent bloodshed has reached scales not yet seen in human history. Tommy Fourever managed to get this diary journal from one of the American frontline divisions, to help us understand how those on the front lines have been reacting to the constant war. The writer sadly passed away recently in a military hospital complex based in Essen two days ago."


    "Alex became one of them today. My best friend, who’s been with me since '47, the only other survivor of the original platoon."

    "An odd thing happens after every nuclear attack. At first men would hold out hope that their friends and families. Their wives and kids would have somehow survived. That a small miracle would occur. These days no one holds out hope. Even if you live through the blast, you die from the poisoning. They tell me it drifts into the water, the air, the food everything. God, I think we're killing the world. The men who have lost their families, their homes, they die inside. Their souls just... go I think. All they want to do is kill Germans and die. To make it be over. "

    "Alex was from Newark. He had 7 sisters and 3 brothers. All his brothers are dead, his two older ones in Japan, his younger in France against the Italians. We don't know about his sisters, but odds ain't good. When we heard, all the life went out of him. The cocky Jersey kid who couldn't say 4 words without a curse in there somewhere was gone. Now there's this dull eyed robot. Like out of those old Flash Gordon strips. Only time he's close to life is when there are Germans to shoot. "

    "We're retreating from Berlin. The Germans keep pushing. Units of boys who aren't even shaving and old men are hurled at us, we mow them down but behind them are always the tanks and the half tracks full of cold eyed, skinny men. We call them wolves, we're insulting the animal. I have to drag Alex away from each fight... but I'm running out of gas for this..."

    "I don't know what to do anymore. God help me. "

    "The loud speakers are on again. It's how we always know when the Germans are attacking. Perfect English female voices telling us to surrender, that the war was pointless. That Churchill and Roosevelt were killing us while the Communist ran rampant in Asia. While our cities burn at home. That our governments were just making sure that the Communists would kill us all in the end. "

    "Alex's eyes have just come alive. He's loading his rifle and pulling out his bayonet. He likes to stab them these days. I can see the first wave of kids, looking younger then my baby brother... Jesus, he turns 14 soon, another year and they'll ship him out. The old men hobble behind and I can hear the rumbling of the tanks... the damn tanks... those Goddamn German tanks… "
















    **A great thanks to frigidmagi for that excellent journal entry. It was slightly modified for grammatical purposes, and to make it slightly easier to read.**
    Last edited by {LD}Firestorm; 23-04-2009 at 00:05.
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  7. #1047
    I swear to God that in Stralsund and the province below it are USSR troops due to the red flag

  8. #1048
    I hate to say it, but this does not look good. What was the hope for a second front that pushed into the south, Italy, is being pushed back. Massive offensive on the German front. God help you.

  9. #1049
    This is definitely not good. What's their IC and dissent?
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  10. #1050
    frigid: On your conclusions, I'd say that the nations to come out of it the best (if a nation can come out the best) will be Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. Really, they have been completely untouched on their mainlands by the war, and both have highly agricultural economies still. Set up loan programs on the food, or have US dollars buy Australian and Kiwi wheat/lamb/etc for European markets, and you suddenly have a very, very rich bunch of middle powers.

    In addition, Aus + NZ, along with Canada, are almost certainly going to become the leaders of the Commonwealth. With the British Isles a radioactive wasteland and Egypt and India both in enemy hands, the remnants of the British Empire will almost certainly look to all three nations to assist them...or launch vicious breakaways.

    The other question is the role of the Chinese, almost certainly highly corrupt and facing internal issues but still a relative power - assuming the Russians don't get any further south.

  11. #1051
    Defender of Democracy {LD}Firestorm's Avatar
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    I completely did not see his post before my news one.

    That was a good read. And for the most part, I agree with it

    As for their IC and dissent, I don't know their dissent but their IC is quite a bit still. The nukes dropped on me lowered their dissent and raised mine.
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  12. #1052
    Lt. General Raaritsgozilla's Avatar
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    Holy shit this looks grim. Good luck!!
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  13. #1053
    Quote Originally Posted by Striker
    frigid: On your conclusions, I'd say that the nations to come out of it the best (if a nation can come out the best) will be Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. Really, they have been completely untouched on their mainlands by the war, and both have highly agricultural economies still. Set up loan programs on the food, or have US dollars buy Australian and Kiwi wheat/lamb/etc for European markets, and you suddenly have a very, very rich bunch of middle powers.
    Entirely possible but one has to remember the limitations. Australia to be blunt is mostly desert. It simply isn't going to be growing all that much food compared to others and what isn't used for internal consummation is going to be shipped to Asia by virtue of geographic location. One must also remember New Zealand tends to concentrate on ranching and herding. I'm afraid I don't know enough about South Africa's farming either way to make a call on it though. That said I do think they would be very prosperous and well set after the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Striker
    In addition, Aus + NZ, along with Canada, are almost certainly going to become the leaders of the Commonwealth. With the British Isles a radioactive wasteland and Egypt and India both in enemy hands, the remnants of the British Empire will almost certainly look to all three nations to assist them...or launch vicious breakaways.
    I'd have to agree with this, although it's quite likely that they'll in turn be taking hints from Washington. Keep in mind New Zealand, Australia and Canada have also been fighting a long time. They're lands are likely has empty of males 15 to 55 as the other combatants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Striker
    The other question is the role of the Chinese, almost certainly highly corrupt and facing internal issues but still a relative power - assuming the Russians don't get any further south.
    China has been doing alot of suffering as well. There was the power struggles and civil wars of the warlord period. The Japanese conquests. They're also starting from lousy position infrastructure and industry wise. What the war is likely to do (assuming they keep the Soviets out of the Core Chinese Lands) is level the playing field between them and the Europeans. It may be that China will be the first nation capable of challenging the US for hegemonic status in the future or that it will fall apart and exist as a US client. I'm taking a wait and see position on that. If the Nationalist government can hold off the Soviets, then that victory should give them the political capital to keep the country together and begin modernizing. If the USSR conquers China, then expect it to be a basket case.

    Of course the phrase worse nightmare come to life is what leaps to mind of what the future will be like if the Nazis or the Communist win (if the Democracies cave expect the Reds and the Nazis to turn on each other like rapid dogs).

    Huh... No pressure there Firestorm.
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  14. #1054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Striker475 View Post
    frigid: On your conclusions, I'd say that the nations to come out of it the best (if a nation can come out the best) will be Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. Really, they have been completely untouched on their mainlands by the war, and both have highly agricultural economies still. Set up loan programs on the food, or have US dollars buy Australian and Kiwi wheat/lamb/etc for European markets, and you suddenly have a very, very rich bunch of middle powers.

    In addition, Aus + NZ, along with Canada, are almost certainly going to become the leaders of the Commonwealth. With the British Isles a radioactive wasteland and Egypt and India both in enemy hands, the remnants of the British Empire will almost certainly look to all three nations to assist them...or launch vicious breakaways.

    The other question is the role of the Chinese, almost certainly highly corrupt and facing internal issues but still a relative power - assuming the Russians don't get any further south.
    Actually, Australia has been hit at least once from what I remember (Melbourne, no less), and a nuke to just one of the big three east coast cities should render the country impotent in terms of an active power. OTOH as you said the farming regions are relatively untouched and there is also the matter of what role Australia's huge coal and metal deposits will play in the massive reconstruction that will follow in the US and Europe. I guess it could go either way for the Aussies really.
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  15. #1055
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    You really deserve that suspense cookie
    (I bet the Germans have a nuclear reactor right next to Siberia )

  16. #1056
    City of Light Josip's Avatar
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    Everybody will hate me for saying this, but Europe is lost. Just take a look at his TC: 2500/250. That is not good, and the dissent around 60% doesn't come down that quick, especially with an army of around 200+ divisions to mantain
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  17. #1057
    Second Lieutenant Alakasam's Avatar
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  18. #1058
    Josip I don't think you grasp the situation. Firestorm has told us he has a grand total of 12 transport groups left.

    That means there is no damn way to get the armies out of Europe whether we like it or not.

    Europe had better not be fucking lost or the Allied Army is lost right along with it and with it the entire war.
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  19. #1059
    Second Lieutenant Alakasam's Avatar
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    Worst comes to worst, they could put absolutely all their troops into those three Spanish-French border provinces

  20. #1060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alakasam View Post
    Worst comes to worst, they could put absolutely all their troops into those three Spanish-French border provinces
    And wait for the inevitable naval invasions that would follow with all the AI troops freed up.
    'I thought we could do it without anyone getting hurt. By using our brains.'
    'Can't. History don't work like that. Blood first, then brains.'
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