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The Sublime State - An Ottoman AAR

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Hey! A couple of stand-stills and a genuine loss! Nice way to keep the story engaging. :p

Seriously, though, it's nice to see there are some hiccups on the road to continued Ottoman dominance.

Concentrate on some pickings that will actually enhance your empire (anything left to take in Arabia, perhaps?) and return the favor to the Russians at a later time. Perhaps a nice slash and burn cavalry raid to put Moscow to the torch would be suitable repayment for the embarrassment of this loss?
 
NACBEAST said:
While I read much moaning and groaning in the comments over the provinces you ceded to Russia, your losses to them were rather few and costless. The Crimea, as far as my geographical knowledge is concerned, is rather worthless, aside from the coastal, Black Sea provinces. Then again, that way you could argue that they make great buffers between Russia and your Black Sea provinces, but that's besides the point.

The provinces you could obtain from Persia and Portugal, combined, will be far more valuable than the ones lost to Russia: so, doing the math, its worth getting the bear of the back for now, if you can go ahead and just outright beat the living tar out of those Portuguese SOBs, and those Persian heretics.

Though, from this experience, I do expect the Empire to take a sudden and renewed interest in its naval capacities: while it would be hard to expect that you'll have to fight Portugal again in the future, the possibility of coming up against other major naval powers must always be taken into consideration. Your land army is great, but without the navy to cart it around your vast empire, you've basically got bubcuss.

Anyway, good to see you back, and forge on ahead Padishah!
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Yeah those northern provinces were not worth too terribly much compared to the more southern ones. Combined with MM's Tribal Modifiers and they weren't giving me much income. Not to mention that I am role playing the game quite a bit, and with a coward Sultan on the throne I'm going to play as a coward. :D

And naval power is becoming more relevant for the Sultans. No longer can a large quantity of galleys and superior armies be enough for victory.

Stuyvesant said:
Hey! A couple of stand-stills and a genuine loss! Nice way to keep the story engaging. :p

Seriously, though, it's nice to see there are some hiccups on the road to continued Ottoman dominance.

Concentrate on some pickings that will actually enhance your empire (anything left to take in Arabia, perhaps?) and return the favor to the Russians at a later time. Perhaps a nice slash and burn cavalry raid to put Moscow to the torch would be suitable repayment for the embarrassment of this loss?
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Thats actually a very attractive idea. A massive punative cavalry raid later as a reminder to the Muscovites that the Turks are the true dominant power in near-Asia!

Of course, I'll need to wait till I have a very militarily gifted Padishah.

And I am glad that Russia was able to defeat me in that war. I am not going for massive conquest as the Ottomans; my goals are more along the lines of maintaining the Ottomans at roughly their highest extend into the Victorian era.

So be prepared for rebellions, civil wars, and the efforts of the janissaries to hold onto their power when not at war with other nations.
 
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aartitlebarfinalyu1.png

Part Thirty-eight
A Sultan of Little Note
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After the end of the Russo-Ottoman War (1550-1553), the Ottoman Empire settled into a long period of relative inaction. Padishah Ali I had lost most of northern Crimea to the advancing Russians and was seen by many in the Ottoman establishment for what he was: a weak willed Sultan more at home writing poetry and sponsoring artists than leading the armies of the Empire to glory. Yet despite this, loyalty amongst the Turkish elite was still maintained due in no small part to the work of Cihangir Pargali Pasha, who became Grand Vizier in 1559. Pargali’s successes in the south ensured his family would wield large amounts of influence within the Sublime Porte for generations. An example of this favour given to the Pargali bloodline was that Pargali’s descendents would hold the Beylik of Yemen until the late 1700s.

AAR261555.png

While Pargali would help legitimize Ali’s reign and prevent the nobility from seeking to replace him after his disastrous handling of the Crimean campaign, he could not prevent the upsurge in popular resentment amongst the peasantry that marked the post war period. As the conscripted soldiers were released back to their lands the veterans of the armies who had fought the Russians carried with them tales of the Sultan’s incompetence. The rumour spread through word of mouth and transformed into outright cowardice and even became a sign that the Padishah had offended God.

Of course most of the Ottoman’s citizens didn’t need much reason to revolt against Imperial authority, most especially amongst the less incorporated ethnicities such as the Serbs, Romanians, and Christian Greeks. For the rest of the decade there would be major uprisings throughout the Balkans, each time leading to brutal repression efforts by the Turkish military. Banditry within the Slavic lands would last even longer, small bands of highwaymen and rebels causing serious trouble for Ottoman governors as late as the 1570s.

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Sultan06SuleimanIPortrait1564.png

- Sultan Suleiman I​

Padishah Ali I died in 1564, passing his throne on to his eldest son Suleiman with all the fanfare and ceremony that would come to mark the death of an Ottoman monarch. Suleiman I in many ways took after his father, favouring courtly activities and diplomatic endeavours more than military conquest. The reign of Suleiman I, while short, is still considered by historians to be one of the most stable and inactive of any Sultan during the expansionist phase of Ottoman history.

AAR0011564.png

Indeed there are only two real reasons to cover Suleiman in any detail. The first is his efforts at expanding the Ottoman navy. After the severe losses the Turkish navy took during the Russo-Ottoman War, the empire slowly began to rebuild its naval forces a ship at a time. Suleiman funded the expansion of a number of Turkish ports, including the important naval facilities at Sinope, to help expedite this process and to increase the trading capabilities of Ottoman merchants.

AAR0021572.png

The second was the Ottoman Empire’s formal annexation of Tunisia in 1571. The Bey of Tunisia’s position had been seriously weakened by the Portuguese invasion during the earlier Russo-Ottoman war, leading to numerous coups and revolts that seriously destabilized the realm; six different Beys were able to claim the throne during the 1560s. With the importance of Tunis revealed during the war, the Padishah recognized that the Ottoman Empire could ill afford to have its own influence over the region weakened further by internal strife.

AAR271556.png

Thus the Turks invaded the city and replaced the local Berber nobility with Turkish ones to guarantee their hold over the region would remain strong. This created a simmering level of resentment amongst the locals, leading to a loss of Ottoman control over the distant countryside of Tunisia. However, the Ottoman’s were content to allow the Berber nomads to maintain a level of autonomy within the countryside as they were solely interested in the strategic importance of the cities and ports of Tunisia.

- Johannes Krieger, The Sublime State: A History of The Ottoman Empire; vol. 1

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It seems a little early for the Ottomans to start stagnating, but then again, in your case stagnation will probably not be followed by terminal decline.

The Turks' decision to directly administer Tunesia reminds me a bit of the Roman decisions to progressively incorporate all their client kingdoms into the Empire. I seem to recall that in some places (Armenia springs to mind) it didn't really improve anything. I expect your luck will be better. :)
 
Stuyvesant said:
It seems a little early for the Ottomans to start stagnating, but then again, in your case stagnation will probably not be followed by terminal decline.

The Turks' decision to directly administer Tunesia reminds me a bit of the Roman decisions to progressively incorporate all their client kingdoms into the Empire. I seem to recall that in some places (Armenia springs to mind) it didn't really improve anything. I expect your luck will be better. :)
Click to expand...

My plan is to maintain what I hold in Africa/Arabia and along the Black Coast while also expanding up in towards central Europe.

Of course with MM the likelihood of being able to maintain such a vast and monumental empire is slim. Be prepared to see Ottoman soldiers reach the walls of Vienna. . . but then? Who knows. :D
 
i believe it's just lull before the storm; as soon as you get a decent monarch OE will unleash its wrath, i don't know how is coring conquered territory going on, with cored provs revolts will become less frequent

also, i believe you retain your cores on Crimean provs so you can always re-take them from Russians, hopefully sedentarised :) -> yes, nomads can be a pain!

as well as poor monarchs, i remember deciding on re-vassalisation of a vassal which had broken free instead of annexation due to my crappy ruler being 3DIP, my bb above 6/16 and going up!)
 
An Empire on the fall does not need a diplomat but a military guy, an Empire which is there to stay needs an administrative guy and an Empire which is going needs a diplomat. :p
 
Tunisia...sounds like overexpansion!

:D
 
quantum said:
Sultan Suleyman, worthyless? this empire is doomed!

If he can't expand till Vienna, than noone can!
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Yeah I was a bit suprised when a Sultan with such a great name had such crappy stats. Not to mention a very short reign. But I'll get to that in the next update. :D

gabor said:
i believe it's just lull before the storm; as soon as you get a decent monarch OE will unleash its wrath, i don't know how is coring conquered territory going on, with cored provs revolts will become less frequent

also, i believe you retain your cores on Crimean provs so you can always re-take them from Russians, hopefully sedentarised :) -> yes, nomads can be a pain!

as well as poor monarchs, i remember deciding on re-vassalisation of a vassal which had broken free instead of annexation due to my crappy ruler being 3DIP, my bb above 6/16 and going up!)
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I've had to do that during my game, but I am trying to keep my BB low (I havn't gotten a "Framed" event yet!).

And even with cores I am still getting some pretty high revolt risks. Which is a good thing, game balance wise: without it, the Ottoman Empire could have conquered half of Europe by now! But I do think I need to invest in a Bill of Rights idea or sumat.

Enewald said:
An Empire on the fall does not need a diplomat but a military guy, an Empire which is there to stay needs an administrative guy and an Empire which is going needs a diplomat. :p
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To be honest, I almost need all three: Admin. to keep my Administrative Efficiency up, Diplomacy to keep my BB down (and keep my vassals from trying to abandon me), and Military so I can stay competitive with my enemies.

bofski said:
This is a really nice AAR and inspires me on playing the Ottomans as well. Sadly I can't play Magna Mundi on my notebook.
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Well I am really glad that you enjoyed it that much! The Ottoman Empire is one of the most influential nations in history, and I've always enjoyed playing them in EU games. Of course, Byzantium is also a heck of alot of fun!

Maybe its because I just like Constantinople so much?

RGB said:
Tunisia...sounds like overexpansion!

:D
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It really kinda is in retrospect. Tunis itself is a nice province, but since I lack cores on them I have to keep units in the area to keep the peace.

I mostly annexed it becase it made sense from a Role Playing perspective: Portugal almost conquered all of Tunisia, and thus as the Ottoman Empire I realized that I had to take a heavier hand in guaranteeing that the Europeans wouldn't get a solid foothold in North Africa.
 
daemonofdecay said:
Yeah I was a bit suprised when a Sultan with such a great name had such crappy stats. Not to mention a very short reign. But I'll get to that in the next update. :D
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According to wikipedia, Suleiman II verily did suck, and have a short reign to boot. Your game appears to be a case of Art imitating Life. :D
 
daemonofdecay said:
Maybe its because I just like Constantinople so much?
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Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul (Istanbul)
Istanbul (Istanbul)

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanbuuuuuuuuuuuuul


I know it was called Konstantiniyye, still a good song
 
Hmm, I just finished reading the 'new' updates and I must say this AAR is truly magnificent. I like that you're trying to keep it real instead of going berserk and conquering everything :)

BTW, how did you manage to export your old savegame file into MMP2?
 
aldriq said:
Also don't forget, the handling of Tunisia is very instructive to those vassals who are thinking of leaving your benevolent overlordship :D
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A little lesson now and again is definitely a good thing as far as the Sublime Porte is concerned.

Stuyvesant said:
According to wikipedia, Suleiman II verily did suck, and have a short reign to boot. Your game appears to be a case of Art imitating Life. :D
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Yes, but this Suleiman is named Suleiman I, after a certain other Sultan from history. . .

bofski said:
Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

<snip>

I know it was called Konstantiniyye, still a good song
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Yes it is. I prefer the They Might Be Giant's version myself.

Especially as shown in the Tiny Toons cartoon music video.

Winner said:
Hmm, I just finished reading the 'new' updates and I must say this AAR is truly magnificent. I like that you're trying to keep it real instead of going berserk and conquering everything :)

BTW, how did you manage to export your old savegame file into MMP2?
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Well conquering like crazy isn't the easiest thing to do in MM. Plus I set for myself the basic goal of avoiding getting any Framed events to keep myself under control. And, of course, I am also role playing a fair bit!

As for exporting, well, it took a heck of alot of work. I had to go into saves and manually edit a whole bunch of things. Some things from one version to the next didn't translate, so alot of times I didn't try to make sure every nations history was just as it was for me while I played.

But the basics from one game to the next are there. I just can't help myself: I always want the newest, bestest version! :rofl:
 
LordOfBlood said:
This is the greatest Ottoman and also MMP2 AAR i have ever seen.
However you are making ONE BIG MISTAKE!'

We NEED MORE UPDATES:D
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Hey don't I know it. But then, I am a lazy bastard with few positive qualities.

To be honest I had planned on posting an update today, but was distracted by friends. Expect update soon, though: I already have all the pics and such edited up and ready to go!
 
daemonofdecay said:
Well conquering like crazy isn't the easiest thing to do in MM.
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Oh really? (*sticks another needle into Ubik voodoo doll*) :D MMP2 is much harder than the previous versions in my experience, so you've made your life a lot more difficult - especially the new naval system is going to be a pain, because without specializing on the naval aspects, you'll never be able to win any naval battles against the maritime powers. That means greater vulnerability to blockades and whatnot. I wish you good luck with that ;)

As for exporting, well, it took a heck of alot of work. I had to go into saves and manually edit a whole bunch of things. Some things from one version to the next didn't translate, so alot of times I didn't try to make sure every nations history was just as it was for me while I played.
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Ah, damn. I hoped there was some easy way to do it, so that perhaps I could transfer the save from my own AAR game. Never mind.

But the basics from one game to the next are there. I just can't help myself: I always want the newest, bestest version! :rofl:
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Do I sense sarcasm here? :D
 
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