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Development Diary #5 - 12th of November 2008

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True, it's an old post. I'll assume that Divisions are made up of 1-6 Brigades however (4 being standard).

EDIT: as for the above post, it seems unlikely that the combat model will be sufficiently detailed to add frontage differences inside divisions, although dedicated support units (artillery etc.) may have less chance of being damaged while the unit's they're supporting are still holding.
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Yah, so basically brigades could have two flags:

Frontline_unit= Yes/No
Frontline_space= 1 (or whatever it may be, for instance, Blitzkrieg would reduce your armour value on thisone by half etc.)
 
what could be interesting on the counters is a function where if you toggle it, the counters show the makeup of the division. The US Army (and others, I'm sure) already do this in tactical mission graphics. Instead of the normal armor, infantry, artillery, etc. icons, there are shapes representing the different types making up that unit.
triangles = tank
boxes = inf
E on its side = engineer
dot = artillery

so, if you have a division comprised of two armor brigades and one infantry brigade, you would have a counter with a division sign, with two triangles and one box inside. This works for quick reference so you can quickly see how each division is composed.

Of course, this might be a bit much, but it would be a fun feature, especially with customized divisions.
 
Jamie550 said:
But then how do we tell countries apart, if their background color is the same?
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Changing the background color for each country :cool:
 
Having a IRL clock instead of the country name :cool:

(or a command [F12] that gives you a pop up when IRL time is something:
"IRL_POPUP=15:05" or "alarm=15:05" and you get a [standard] pop-up box telling you the time when the time is right)
 
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Hansag said:
Yah, so basically brigades could have two flags:

Frontline_unit= Yes/No
Frontline_space= 1 (or whatever it may be, for instance, Blitzkrieg would reduce your armour value on thisone by half etc.)
Click to expand...

Ideally, any brigade (with the exception of those that are never frontline brigades - artillery, HQ, etc.) could be designated as a frontline brigade. Say you have a division with 2 mechanized infantry and one armoured brigade. Attacking in open terrain, you would want the ARM brigade up front, while if attacking into an urban area or a forest, you would want both MEC brigades in the frontline.
 
carlos.gh said:
Changing the background color for each country :cool:
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My personal preference would be to retain the flag on the counter. I think it adds a certain graphical detail that makes it more interesting...call it "bling". I know from a modding perspective, I enjoy creating custom flags for all kinds of game elements...counters included.
 
battlecry said:
Ideally, any brigade (with the exception of those that are never frontline brigades - artillery, HQ, etc.) could be designated as a frontline brigade. Say you have a division with 2 mechanized infantry and one armoured brigade. Attacking in open terrain, you would want the ARM brigade up front, while if attacking into an urban area or a forest, you would want both MEC brigades in the frontline.
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Right. It'll be very interesting to hear whether brigades are treated individually or by grouping (in their division). It would be accurate to say that in a division, the maneuver elements are exposed, where artillery is generally not. Also, a mobile division might lose far more tanks than infantry, which could only be modeled if the respective brigades were treated separately. This would be especially true for air attacks and tank battles. I cant wait to find out.
 
robw963 said:
My personal preference would be to retain the flag on the counter. I think it adds a certain graphical detail that makes it more interesting...call it "bling". I know from a modding perspective, I enjoy creating custom flags for all kinds of game elements...counters included.
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Right. I mean, I like the flag, it adds some flavour, but I would prefer the stats. Maybe a residue from my boardgames times :p
 
Oke, I skimmed the 12 pages but I don't believe I found the answer to my questions.

Say I have 20 divisions to attack with, but I can only fit 5 on average in my frontline. Depending on how small the chance is of divisions leaving the reserves and joining the frontline wouldn't it be better for me to attack twice with 10 divisions from the same province?
In the OP it stated that reserve divisions would have to retreat as well, I'm assuming with some loss of organization.

Also. Can we choose which divisions to send in first? For strategic reasons.

And finally. Will defensive reserve forces have a way higher chance of replacing frontline troops? Defensive lines were designed to do that. Or even the possibility of a second and third defensive line? A second line could increase strength losses of the retreating first line.

That was about it. Just wondering how interactive the process will be I guess.
 
Is the number under the division type the division number? That would be really cool.
 
tyrspawn said:
Is the number under the division type the division number? That would be really cool.
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It's been stated that the number currently does not represent anything. It remains TBD.
 
Dakk said:
It's been stated that the number currently does not represent anything. It remains TBD.
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Well it obviously means something or they wouldn't have put it there a placeholder.
 
It seems clear that the answer was meant to be a misdirection, the number may not refer to something they are prepared/willing to tell us about yet, but there would be no reason to code it in at all yet if it stood for nothing...

EDIT: Meeeahh...reading it again, I'm not so sure Johan wasn't telling the truth. The more I think about it, the more likely (in my mind) it becomes that the number is really merely a placeholder at the moment, and genuinely means nothing.
 
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battlecry said:
Ideally, any brigade (with the exception of those that are never frontline brigades - artillery, HQ, etc.) could be designated as a frontline brigade.
Click to expand...

I totaly agree here

battlecry said:
Say you have a division with 2 mechanized infantry and one armoured brigade. Attacking in open terrain, you would want the ARM brigade up front, while if attacking into an urban area or a forest, you would want both MEC brigades in the frontline.
Click to expand...

However, I feel you're going down towards a very tactical level here, and it's probably something for a doctrin to sort out who goes first.

Now, what I mean with frontline troops, it's the ones that are in the 10km closest to the enemy. The rear area troops, like "Supply Brigade" and Divisional HQ etc. they aught to be beond the 10km closest to the enemy, and possibly 10-20km from the main fighting (i.e. direct fire weapons like rifles, tank guns and mortars etc.).

Here's some perspective:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/docs/st100-7/chapter06/C6IV.htm
 
@ Hansag - I see that as something of a contradiction. You agree that the player should be able to flag any suitable brigade as "frontline" - but disagree that this should be used for the purposes of flexibility (which I see as the only point in being able to choose)?

What other use would there be in being able to assign and/or rotate units to and from the frontline?
 
Sorry, I was thinking in a modding sense.

As for assigning specific brigades to go in first and so on. I feel that would be a little overkill in micromanagement.

Telling a Tank Division to be in reserve while you have infantry going in and clears a city [urban province] would be a different story however.
 
Hansag said:
As for assigning specific brigades to go in first and so on. I feel that would be a little overkill in micromanagement.
Click to expand...

Could be quite simple - e.g. clicking a division opens a sidebar, same as clicking on an corps/army in HOI2 - either the brigades can be drag/dropped, or each has a "move up" button which moves them to/closer to the top of the list. Say there's 3, the first two in the list are always frontline, third is not. Non-frontline-capable units simply can't be moved, they stay at the bottom.
 
battlecry said:
@ Hansag - I see that as something of a contradiction. You agree that the player should be able to flag any suitable brigade as "frontline" - but disagree that this should be used for the purposes of flexibility (which I see as the only point in being able to choose)?

What other use would there be in being able to assign and/or rotate units to and from the frontline?
Click to expand...

wouldn't it be easier to look at the terain, and compute the effictivenes*strength of each unit and then send them in that order?

Like if you attacking a mountain, mountain units would be most effective, so they would get sent in first, the regular infantry then tanks. We already have these stats in Hoi2 where it shoes combat effectiveness. Why no just sort based on that?
 
dpdlc said:
wouldn't it be easier to look at the terain, and compute the effictivenes*strength of each unit and then send them in that order?

Like if you attacking a mountain, mountain units would be most effective, so they would get sent in first, the regular infantry then tanks. We already have these stats in Hoi2 where it shoes combat effectiveness. Why no just sort based on that?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I hadn't thought of doing it automatically. Any situations where the ability to do it manually might be preferable?
 
Wow, just wow. (Ha! Needing cheats to beat Norway, huh. :D)

Lots of genious stuff that I would never have thought of myself, nor have I read any proposials for it by forumers. This just settles it. I will buy HoI3 on the first day it is available on gamersgate without reading any final reviews on it.

By the way; I hope the next screenshot can be from the Middle East or China. ;)
 
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