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Actually it was that ardent Francophile, Sir Winston Spencer Churchill, who said that...



To quote Churchill again : do you mean "rum, sodomy and the lash" ? ;)



*waves hand dismissively* you get the idea. ;)

On a more serious note, I could seriously see some sort of public outcry when the terms come to light and when Britain makes peace while France fights on, however unlikely the last bit is.
 
*waves hand dismissively* you get the idea. ;)

On a more serious note, I could seriously see some sort of public outcry when the terms come to light and when Britain makes peace while France fights on, however unlikely the last bit is.

Continental France is probably lost, so that leaves the North-African Empire - a tough proposition but that would depend upon whether the Italians initially rebuke, as they did in OTL, German offers to send troops in what they regard as "their" theater of operation.

In OTL there were proponents of a continuation of hostilities from North Africa with French troops evacuated there - they were outvoted by just one vote in 1940, so it was a close call.
 
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To quote Churchill again : do you mean "rum, sodomy and the lash" ? ;)

I knew there was a reason I liked them.

Anyway, given the supine attitude of everyone in Britain's leadership I imagine the Labor Party is experiencing a renaissance. And this is all looking a bit like Farthing.
 
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IAnyway, given the supine attitude of everyone in Britain's leadership I imagine the Labour Party is experiencing a renaissance.
Depends how it plays with the public, as Le Jones has mentioned the public mood didn't really turn till the Battle of Britain. Seeing the BEF come home safe and sound may (sadly) swing a lot of support behind Halifax's peace deal.
 
[Oh well, you asked for it…]

Chapter 32, London, 29 May 1940

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Attlee sat down with Greenwood, Dalton and the other senior Labour Party personnel to decide just what action they could take next. As the country waited for the official update to Parliament, already divisions were forming in the Labour leadership.

“We cannot just abandon the French to the German Army,” that was Arthur Greenwood, emerging as the leading ‘hawk’ in the Labour leadership.

“I agree Arthur, to a point,” muttered Dalton. “But the economy is on its knees if we keep on fighting. I’m not sure we can get support for a renewed war.” He sighed as he reflected on the difficult financial decisions ahead.

Nye Bevan was angry. “Pah! The country’s just waiting for a decent leader”.

James Ede raised an eyebrow. “I disagree. France is lost. Belgium is lost. We need to raise the drawbridge and make sure we’re prepared at home.”

“I agree,” commented Lord Jowitt. “We need to prepare our home defences. Centralise munitions production, reform the Army, increase the strength of the RAF,” the lawyer trailed off, his point made.

Attlee closed his eyes. He was desperately wary of ripping apart the National Government. “Is it our view that we are hostile to any peace treaty, or is it that we are hostile to this treaty?”

“Both,” Greenwood barked. Bevan nodded vigorously, like a dog with a bone. His hatred of fascism was intense, intense enough to side with Churchill, not a natural and obvious political ally.

Jowitt smiled thinly. “If we can secure a peace that allows us to position our defences as we see fit then I will gladly agree.”

“Agreed,” chimed Manny Shinwell. Bevan shook his head in wonder.

Attlee turned to Dalton. “Hugh?”

Dalton, still reflective, now shared his thoughts to his colleagues. “I think we are now bound to pursuing some sort of settlement.” He huffed loudly. “But I will not see the British government be dictated to. We need to renegotiate. And you need to go with them,” he pointed determinedly at Attlee. “I for one am fed up with briefing Halifax on one course of action, and him doing something totally contrasting.”

They agreed with that. As one they growled their unhappiness. Attlee knew his team, and he nodded. “In that case the Labour Party will push Halifax to call the Germans this afternoon. We renegotiate the Gibraltar and Malta clauses, as well as testing these colonial demands. If the Prime Minister fails to accept our requests then we publicly walk out of the government.”

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“In which instance, constitutionally, an election may be prudent,” reminded Jowitt, “if the war does not continue.”

[Game Effect] – I have to confess that this is for the readers. My initial plan was for Halifax to continue, as I said on Wednesday, with the treaty as it stands. But I just don’t think that the Labour Party would stand by and let it go through, given that elements of their leadership up to this point were so staunchly anti-appeasement. No coup as of yet, but a determined sanity check from Attlee which will put some fire into the debate.

It is a breathtaking irony that the Labour Party, a collection of biased intellectuals, firebrand reformers, paternal (no, not autocrats!) lawyers/businessmen, communists, socialists or hardworking Britons trying to build a better nation ended up being the most patriotic group in 1940. I have exaggerated in this AAR, but only slightly. Lord Jowitt, the most experienced legal mind of Attlee’s team (and therefore, presumably, Lord Chancellor in an Attlee government), makes a point when he states that an election is looming. This is so obvious to Conservative and Labour politicians alike that ‘winning the peace’ is only useful to them when it sets up a good election winning position. By being seen as the more gutsy of the two main parties Labour are placing themselves in a very good position.

I'm knackered so will do a full reply to the raging debate tomorrow am.;)
 
Actually, Halifax is a genius. You'll now see the British develop atomic bombs, and once Germany is finished battering Russia in 1946....

And then, Operation.... Hmm. I mean, Britain will have an atomic monopoly and won't need a name for the operation, will it?

From what I understand, the Americans and the British combined their research to develop the first atomic bomb. If that doesn't happen, it might take a whole lot longer for the British to get the atomic bomb.

This is so obvious to Conservative and Labour politicians alike that ‘winning the peace’ is only useful to them when it sets up a good election winning position. By being seen as the more gutsy of the two main parties Labour are placing themselves in a very good position.

Historically, the Labour Party won the 1945 General Election because people wanted to move on from Conservative policies. It would be interesting to see Clement Attlee become Prime Minister a few years earlier and have him deal with Hitler instead of having to deal with the opening of the Cold War.

Speaking of elections, in thevaliant's "The Proper US and UK Elections" mod, there is an Halifax versus Attlee 1940 General Election event in the case of an early end to the war.
 
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finally someone with balls! The least we can hope for is a re-negotiation of these ridiculous clauses abd bo more appeasement. Now all he has to do is give winston the Admiralty back and I'm sold. My concern though is that he might give the russians the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine like he did with the Nene in OTL.
 
finally someone with balls! The least we can hope for is a re-negotiation of these ridiculous clauses abd bo more appeasement. Now all he has to do is give winston the Admiralty back and I'm sold. My concern though is that he might give the russians the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine like he did with the Nene in OTL.

I'm sure Atlee will find new and innovative mistakes to make. It is in the inherent nature of socialism to make everything worse, indeed it is the golden rule of British politics that all Labour governments end in poverty, unemployment and strikes. As the current mob are doing their very best to prove.
 
As much as I had to admit it El Pip, I think you're right. :( Which is hard for me to do, as if I were a HOI2 minister my traits would be "Social Democrat, Ideological Crusader/compassionate Gentleman"
 
A long time ago, in a continent far far away...



The King's First Minister - a UK AAR


Episode IV

A NEW HOPE



:D

Well, all isn't lost, yet...
 
A long time ago, in a continent far far away...



The King's First Minister - a UK AAR


Episode IV

A NEW HOPE



:D

Well, all isn't lost, yet...

Not to forget Episodes I,II,and III that will be produced by 1970 with more special effects to cover up the abysmal plot and second rate actors. :D
 
Chapter 33, House of Commons, 29 May 1940

A hurried telephone conversation decided it. As Ribbentrop shouted and spat down the line his fury at the sudden renegotiation, Halifax, a waspish Attlee stood next to him, stood and fought. That completed both men walked into their respective chambers.

The House of Lords had been honoured with the first announcement. Halifax had addressed their Lordships for an hour, explaining the terms of the final treaty and adding his opinion into a steady, reasoned account worthy of a noble gentleman. Their Lordships had then had a gentle, stately discussion before adjourning for afternoon tea. The press, members of the commons and eventually the public were therefore briefed as to the terms and when, two hours later, the Commons assembled Butler knew that he and Halifax had erred. That, coupled with a beautifully timed resignation (or dismissal, for no-one really knew what had occurred) by Churchill all added to the sense of drama in the House. Butler, though not an outstanding orator, gave a better account of the negotiations and the resultant treaty than his master; after all, Butler had been the one doing the negotiating. He spoke confidently, and as The Times put it “from a conviction that he had to see right be done”. Attlee offered suspiciously little in debate, whilst Sinclair raised the question of Commonwealth acceptance. The time-bomb was ticking. The Speaker, ever weary, suspected that whatever came next would become parliamentary legend.

“Mr Winston Churchill.” There were loud cheers which Churchill acknowledged from the backbenches.

“Mr Speaker, I speak to you all today as that most simple and noble of things, the British backbencher, to which I have been propelled by my obstinacy and stubbornness. Banished from the Cabinet, I address thee from the wilderness, free of any proximity to these august events.” He was showing the distance between the cabinet and himself.

“And from the desolate wastes in which I now reside, I say, shame! This treaty shackles us with the fear of annihilation for evermore. In exchange for a handful of petty gestures we offer away our independence, our security, our freedom! What else could we do, Lord Halifax asks? We have saved the Empire, he claims! No, we condemned it. We have given a powerful enemy worldwide reach to snatch whatever titbits of the world he wants to grab. Despite Lord Halifax and Mr Attlee’s deal to safeguard Malta and Gibraltar, we have thrown away the Mediterranean to a strutting despot who dreams of aping Caesar. We have betrayed our Navy, the Army, the RAF, who were asked to give their service to a cause that Lord Halifax did not believe in.” He paused to let the House absorb his words.

“You, ask, what else could we have done? We could have fought. We could have fought them on the beaches, we could have fought on the fields and in the streets, we should have fought in the hills, we never should have surrendered! And if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, could have carried on the struggle, until, in God’s good time, the New World, joined to the British cause, with all its power and might, could have stepped forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.”

Following this appeal to the Empire, and, intriguingly, the Americans, Churchill, cheered by many, returned to his seat. The House rose to vote. In the end, the Treaty of Milan was ratified by the House of Commons by a majority of 107. Many abstained, a few others would resign in the days that followed but the Prime Minister and Butler would be able to fly to Italy for the signing ceremony without a humiliating Commons defeat looming over them. Halifax, upon hearing the news, gave thanks to God and went to brief the King. Churchill and his followers met at Chartwell to decide their next action.

[Game Effect] – A last minute injection of fibre saves the British position in the Med. But, and here is the really contentious issue, the British give up any European influence (temporarily?). Initially, when I played the game back in September, I simulated a UK pull-out from Malta and Gib by simply not putting any units there. That I’ve changed my mind (as part of the attempt to spare Trekaddict a nervous breakdown) won’t (in gaming terms) impact too much upon things.

The territory lost – France’s position in Djibouti is looking dodgy, but that’s a matter for the French treaty (though the UK has agreed that Germany can have it). Cameroon, Congo and a small slice of East Africa go to Germany. South Africa gives up the old German South-west Africa to the Reich and Italy gets some bits of Somaliland. Mussolini is also looking greedily at French North Africa. Halifax is happy to agree to all this and this sort of deal was actually advocated as part of an agreement. Why is Ribbentrop, despite his bluster, so ready to renegotiate? Simple – the French, for all their troubles, aren’t defeated just yet. And Ribbentrop knows that if internal battles arise in the UK, the Empire's eyes will look inward. And there will be troubles ahead...

Nathan Madien: Indeed, Anglo-American cooperation was key to the early development of the bomb. Without that level of interraction progress would have been slower. Halifax and Attlee, presuming :)D) that the peace holds, will have to think about domestic politics. Attlee, despite his excellent handling of this crisis, has a number of disadvantages over his 1945 position. No Beveridge Report, a public who haven't had wartime experience of (generally) competent largely-Labour led management of many domestic issues, disgruntlement with the Tories not as high (though the true reaction to the Peace may alter this). If an election is fought in 1940 it will be exceptionally close.

Trekaddict: Attlee, bizarrely, is indeed the only man (Winnie aside) with any backbone. But faced with this impossible situation even he has plumped for peace. Though less of a farcical treaty than that secured by Butler.

El Pip: Sadly very very very true.

Kurt_Steiner: :rofl: But who would be Han Solo? Churchill?

Trekaddict: :rofl:
 
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Someone give me a time machine, a portable DVD player and a bag for my collection and I will right thsi wrong. :mad:

The list would be: Battle of Britain, Downfall, Tora Tora Tora, The Longest Day and Schindlers List
 
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It's a small victory, but it may keep trekaddict alive for a few more updates. ;)

Seriously though, I await the French deal with great interest, the pro-German option outlined by Atlantic Friend seems quite likely, particularly if the Germans offer a similar 'generous' looking deal to France.

On the other hand it could encourage Germany to 'sort out' France once and for all so they can turn East without any fear of distraction. Or indeed some position in between the two. So many options to consider.
 
It's a small victory, but it may keep trekaddict alive for a few more updates. ;)

Fear not, I have my BoB special edition DVD box to keep me alive, along with my own AAR and the White Ensign on my wall. :D Seriously though, I fear that we will end up with a Europe ala Prisoners of Silence.
 
Kurt_Steiner: :rofl: But who would be Han Solo? Churchill?

Better Churchill playing Solo than Leia. Leia's hairstyle wouldn't suit him quite well. And, certainly, Winnie isn't furry enough to play Chewbacca.:D
 
The italians have more rights to own the mediterranean than the brits. An age of imperialism is coming to halt... I hope.

*boohs* This is treason, good Sir!
 
I am glad the British government isn't populated by cartoon villains. Weaving Churchill's speeches into the commons scenes is fun to see too, and I like that Halifax is now and then doing something right. He's managed to keep the national unity government together so far, and even managed (under pressure) to keep Britain in a position where Germany would have to start a new war if it wanted to press on beyond merely defeating France and (later) Russia. Interesting.

And the renegotiation may anger one ally and one potential ally of Hitler's. Very nicely done. Gibraltar's loss, once countenanced, may be a useful bargaining chip for one who would have otherwise been a natural ally of the Reich; and Malta's reneging may anger another big ego, too.