General Discussion

[Helius]

I had not noticed this, but that would be a good thing, I guess!

[Ignatich]

In HRE_Initialize.txt:

267 = {	# Plsen
	set_province_flag = heresy
	change_variable = { which = social_revolution value = 8 }
}

Does that mean that game engine allows per-province variables too? I thought only countries can have 'em.

[pigglet82]

In HRE_Initialize.txt:

267 = {	# Plsen
	set_province_flag = heresy
	change_variable = { which = social_revolution value = 8 }
}

Does that mean that game engine allows per-province variables too? I thought only countries can have 'em.

Yes, provinces can also have variables. But I don't think you can set global variables like with flags.

[Helius]

Correct. No global variables.

[Ignatich]

Thanks pigglet82, Helius.

[Jon F. Zeigler]

Minor annoying bug: the conditions for keeping "Britannia Rules the Waves" in the "removemodifiers" event file are different (and more restrictive) than the conditions for getting the modifier in the "england" decision file. As a result it's probable that you will make the decision and then lose the modifier immediately, setting up a painless but annoying loop.

[Jon F. Zeigler]

Aha. Another minor annoying bug, which I haven't diagnosed completely. The vanilla decision "Adopt Imperial Administration" interacts strangely with the ATAGE-related decisions and events. A couple of symptoms:

1) I'm currently playing a very large England. Accepting "Adopt Imperial Administration" turns me into an Empire, but then I get the decision to "Claim Our Proper Rank," which turns me back into a Feudal Monarchy. Which can be annoying when I've already taken the hit to become (e.g.) an Administrative Monarchy.

2) In the same game, I watched a very large AI Byzantine Empire keep flipping back and forth between those two decisions, several times a year.

Eventually I just modified the vanilla decision to prevent the AI from choosing it, and that solved the problem. I still see the decision but I ignore it. Frankly, I think I would simply delete the vanilla decision . . . but the decisions that permit a nation to climb the ladder of rank might need to be revisited too.

[Ignatich]

event 610 (diploannex vassal) does not work reliably (i.e. may not give cores and autonomy status when using second option) because of this code in immediate block:

capital_scope = { owned_by = THIS }

After some testing I discovered capital_scope does not seem to work correctly here. Trigger worked when I replaced this line with:
1779 = { owned_by = THIS }
(I was annexing Cilli as Austria).

I added this code into immediate block to ease debugging:

any_country = {
	limit = {
		exists = no
# doesn't work if you use capital_scope here
		1779 = { owned_by = THIS } 
		NOT = { has_country_flag = inexistent }
	}
	HAB = {
		capital_scope = {
		 	add_province_modifier = {
				name = "city_500"
				duration = 3650
			}
		}
	}
}

I'm using nov 3.2b and clean latest SRI without any bells and whistles (except above code). I have a save that demonstrates this problem, but it can be easily reproduced by annexing Cilli year after 1399 start.

[Helius]

Thanks for all the bugreports! Will release a fresh version, later this week.

[Jon F. Zeigler]

I have an alternate-historical mod that I've recently rebuilt, using the current version of SRI and a few items of my own design. The alternate setup involves some rearrangements of territory and new monarchs in the most important nations, but otherwise I leave the mechanisms of the simulation alone. My current test game is the first one where I've gotten everything set up to my satisfaction, and it's now in the middle 1700s.

I am very impressed with the way the AI is working. Colonization and religious conversion were two areas I was concerned about - but the AI nations seem to be handling those just fine. Meanwhile, as the game progresses the dynamic among the European powers is just about pitch-perfect.

I'm seeing big power blocs form and shift, with all the little nations jockeying for position within the alliance system. The big alliances are reasonable, and give very plausible results. I've been seeing pan-European wars reminiscent of the Thirty Years War or the War of the Spanish Succession, gang-up-on-the-odd-man wars very similar to the Seven Years War, even some decent colonial wars. All behavior I never saw before this mod.

About the only thing I haven't been able to test out so far is the system for religious wars in the Empire - in this game, the Emperor at the critical period went for complete toleration and the conflicts just never happened. The only thing I'm really concerned about is the way religion works. The vanilla religious systems aren't quite historical enough for my taste, so I may go back and re-integrate Dei Gratia once more.

And the nice thing is, the mod was easy to design and works just fine with the revised initial conditions. SRI and the new Ad Infinitum appear to be great tools for alternate-historical experiment.

Superb work, Helius.

[gabor]

i'm giving a try to SRI integrated with MMP, (thanx helius for help with religious policy of the emperor event)

i have two gripes though (not sure if mod-related)
1) as a catholic emperor i should be happy or at least indifferent that catholic palatinate attacks just converted (bishopric-grabbing) meinz; yet so as not to lose prestige (and my chances to be voted the next emperor) i have to help the new protestant duke, even if i don't do anything palatinate gets beaten as the network of guarantees is so dense in the hre and they are binding even if the ruler converts (not plausible imo); i signed white peace yet my relations with the palatinate plummeted, also they no longer support me as the next emperor; a month after the war catholic tier (that had just fought to protect meinz) dows meinz and obviously i lose another elector

is there any way to cancel a guarantee (like alliance) e.g. on conversion (when relations drop too low or sth like that)?
otherwise, partly due to gaurantees, partly due to AI behaviour it seems illogical: a catholic emperor has to defend a protestant duke who'd just rid catholics in the empire of a bishopric and to top it all the emperor has to lose its catholic electorial supporters in the process

2) can anyone figure out what drives crimea or golden horde attack cednar or karaman (they don't even have a border!) starting suicidal wars with OE and its allies; the same goes for holstein dowing lubeck (tons of allies and guarantors + emperor!) or venice stubbornly attacking mantua when the emperor is strong; how AI calculates its odds, that it sees a chance to win?

there are odd things going on with guarantees (which i see as more powerful than alliances, they'll protect you for free!);
in some areas (hre) i see too many of them, in some there are none (OE makes hungary release croatia but the alliance is short-lived and soon usually austria (why not venice or hungary?) attacks defenceless croatia (well why would OE ask for releasing croatia in the first place is another issue)

on a side note i had a feeling that rebels were/are more powerful in SRI (lowel fort-levels, faster sieges) in the integrated SRI-MMP it's much harder for heretics or peasants to successfully siege a prov, revolutionaries and pretenders in opms (or two-prov minors) seem a bit more lucky; thinking of MMP2, wouldn't it effect some of your concepts, helius, connected with religious strife or peasant revolt?

[Ignatich]

In my recent Brandenburg->Prussia game I annexed Bremen (which was Hanseatic president) while having core on it. Some years later I was asked to release Bremen or face a virtually unbeatable alliance led by Hamburg. While I find Hanseatic wars a major improvement to the game I still think it needs some tweaking. I had most of (if not all) big 7 countries plus many more allied with Hamburg and had no other option than to release Bremen. I think it would be more realistic if alliance would not include countries that had no interest in Hanseatic League or at least I was warned some time before this attack so I had a chance to do a preventive strike or prepare for this overwhelming force. I must say though, that in my Bavaria game Hanseatic force was not so overwhelming so may be it's a matter of bad luck. Also this report should be taken with a bit of salt as I did use MMP+SRI instead of pure SRI.

[Ignatich]

Please check this patch for SRI_Jewish_Events file. I'm not exactly sure about "units_in_province = THIS", but I can't find any proof that it works this way. Did you run some tests for it?

--- SRI_Jewish_Events.txt	Fri Jul 03 12:02:20 2009
+++ SRI_Jewish_Events.txt	Sun Jul 12 22:09:23 2009
@@ -1388,7 +1388,7 @@
 		}
 		modifier = {
 			factor = 10
-			AND = {
+			owner = {
 				has_country_flag = jewish_citizenship
 				OR = {
 					NOT = { idea = humanist_tolerance }
@@ -1398,7 +1398,7 @@
 		}
 		modifier = {
 			factor = 10
-			AND = {
+			owner = {
 				has_country_flag = jewish_emancipation
 				NOT = { idea = humanist_tolerance }
 				NOT = { idea = liberty_egalite_fraternity }
@@ -1413,7 +1413,7 @@
 			limit = {
 				THIS = {
 					NOT = { controlled_by = owner }
-					owner = { units_in_province = THIS }
+#					owner = { units_in_province = THIS }
 					has_siege = yes
 				}
 			}
@@ -1426,44 +1426,46 @@
 			factor = 100
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 0
-				manpower_percentage = 0.8
-				army_size_percentage = 0.8
+				owner = {
+					manpower_percentage = 0.8
+					army_size_percentage = 0.8
+				}
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				NOT = { manpower_percentage = 1 }
+				NOT = { owner = { manpower_percentage = 1 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				NOT = { manpower_percentage = 0.8 }
+				NOT = { owner = { manpower_percentage = 0.8 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				NOT = { manpower_percentage = 0.6 }
+				NOT = { owner = { manpower_percentage = 0.6 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				NOT = { manpower_percentage = 0.4 }
+				NOT = { owner = { manpower_percentage = 0.4 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				NOT = { manpower_percentage = 0.2 }
+				NOT = { owner = { manpower_percentage = 0.2 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 1.2
-				NOT = { army_size_percentage = 1 }
+				NOT = { owner = { army_size_percentage = 1 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 1.2
-				NOT = { army_size_percentage = 0.75 }
+				NOT = { owner = { army_size_percentage = 0.75 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 1.2
-				NOT = { army_size_percentage = 0.5 }
+				NOT = { owner = { army_size_percentage = 0.5 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 1.2
-				NOT = { army_size_percentage = 0.25 }
+				NOT = { owner = { army_size_percentage = 0.25 } }
 			}
 		}
 		random_list = {
@@ -1479,41 +1481,45 @@
 			factor = 100
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 0
-				NOT = { war_exhaustion = 2 }
-				stability = 2
-				is_bankrupt = no
+				owner = {
+					NOT = { war_exhaustion = 2 }
+					stability = 2
+					is_bankrupt = no
+				}
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 0.5
-				NOT = { war_exhaustion = 4 }
+				owner = {
+					NOT = { war_exhaustion = 4 }
+				}
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				is_bankrupt = yes
+				owner = { is_bankrupt = yes }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				war_exhaustion = 4
+				owner = { war_exhaustion = 4 }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				war_exhaustion = 8
+				owner = { war_exhaustion = 8 }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				war_exhaustion = 12
+				owner = { war_exhaustion = 12 }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				war_exhaustion = 16
+				owner = { war_exhaustion = 16 }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				war_exhaustion = 20
+				owner = { war_exhaustion = 20 }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				war_exhaustion = 24
+				owner = { war_exhaustion = 24 }
 			}
 		}
 		random_list = {
@@ -1531,27 +1537,27 @@
 			factor = 100
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				NOT = { army_tradition = 0.2 }
+				NOT = { owner = { army_tradition = 0.2 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				NOT = { army_tradition = 0.4 }
+				NOT = { owner = { army_tradition = 0.4 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 2
-				NOT = { army_tradition = 0.6 }
+				NOT = { owner = { army_tradition = 0.6 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 0.5
-				war_exhaustion = 10
+				owner = { war_exhaustion = 10 }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 0.5
-				NOT = { manpower_percentage = 0.2 }
+				NOT = { owner = { manpower_percentage = 0.2 } }
 			}
 			modifier = {
 				factor = 0.5
-				NOT = { army_size_percentage = 0.2 }
+				NOT = { owner = { army_size_percentage = 0.2 } }
 			}
 		}
 		random_list = {

[dharper]

is there any way to cancel a guarantee (like alliance) e.g. on conversion (when relations drop too low or sth like that)?
otherwise, partly due to gaurantees, partly due to AI behaviour it seems illogical: a catholic emperor has to defend a protestant duke who'd just rid catholics in the empire of a bishopric and to top it all the emperor has to lose its catholic electorial supporters in the process

Alliances end when relations are below 0 at the end of the month, so these should be cancelled automatically. Guarantees don't do this, and there's no command to end a guarantee, so you're stuck with them.

[GreatBurgundy]

To Creator of this mod,

It’s so easy for nations to create a market trading centre or what ever its called. This is so wrong, in modern or 1500s onwards, it make no sense. It is not proper economics !!!

All you need to do is to create a market centre or trading centre is to have 500 gold to do so… Even worst in Mods, in the end there will be a trading centre in each nation. This is so wrong… Makes no sense and its not proper economics.

This is my criteria for prior to establishing a trading centre or market centre:

1. A province must have at least 30,000 people to conduct trading activities and industries;
2. Province must have a high level commodity or trade item;
3. Prior to establishing a trading centre, the province must have at least had a Festival Fair or Kantor or some trading fair for at least 10 years;
4. Taxation of the province must be somewhat low to stimulate trade and economic life;

Once the criteria is fulfilled:
1. The nation must pay at least 2000 gold coins to build up a market centre or trading centre;
2. It should take at least 10 years for the trading market to be established.

PEOPLE MUST ACCEPT THE CONQUENCES FOR HAVING A TRADING CENTER: once having a trading center, you have less taxes from the province which has a trading center, if you adjust your policy slider against free trade or amongst other things, the people will rise up, when having a trading fair that leads to a given option of establishing a trading center if you have the money, the government of the nation must levy from their own taxpayer money to maintain or host the trading fair. Once you have a trading center status, you don’t need to maintain it bec the city is self governed.

Look at EDIT below for further details on some of these points made above.

EDIT: 1. “province must have a sizable population to conduct trading…”, in medieval times up to modern times (in real life I mean), a town would need to be at least 30,000 people in a town or city for it to be seen as a market town or free city. Bec the need for these people to conduct trades and other trading industries. Also, high population means high consumptions. Trading fairs and trading centers should boost population grow bec it attracts people to it.

EDIT: 2. a trading centre appears bec the town has a precious trading commodity or that it became a point where everyone trades to it instead of trading to 5 different trade centers in Mediterranean Sea area for example, they trade to one point and everyone gets it from that point to their location.

EDIT: 3. Before a trading center is established, history tells that they had some sort of trading fair where everyone comes to trade there even though it doesn’t have trading centre status. In the past, people build up knowledge of the trading fair then people start to come to that city to trade things. As a result of this, people in the trading fair city would have gain knowledge in trades, financial and trading institutions arise, and city becomes more independent in its governing over a period of time… Then its becomes a trading center.

EDIT: 4. Taxation must be low enough to stimulate trade and finance and other industries and to attract much needed skilled people into the city.

EDIT: “pay at least 2000 gold” reasons for this are the city must build on its fair institutions, establish a massive marketplace or plaza, building heaps of warehouses and storages. Whether it’s a coastal province it needs a massive port, whether it’s inland, it needs roads and highways leading people and trades into it. This 2000 gold is needed for these things.

EDIT: “take at least 10 years”. The reasons why it takes at least 10 years to build a trade center is bec the city needs to build up its institutions, plaza or marketplace, warehouses, storages, ports or highways, plus over time regulations and trading rules are improved.


What i listed in this post, is proper economic for trading center in real life... People talk about making things realistic, this needs to be looked at.

What do ya think !?

- Rosco

[Ignatich]

Some fixes to SRI code:

--- HRE_Initialize.txt	Thu Jul 02 23:45:09 2009
+++ HRE_Initialize.txt	Mon Jul 13 20:47:50 2009
@@ -981,9 +981,11 @@
 					NOT = { has_country_modifier = heretic_country }
 				}
 			}
-			add_country_modifier = {
-				name = "heretic_country"
-				duration = 7300
+			owner = {
+				add_country_modifier = {
+					name = "heretic_country"
+					duration = 7300
+				}
 			}
 		}
 # setting up rivals
@@ -3153,21 +3155,27 @@
 			capital_scope = { province_event = 117004 }
 		}
 # flagging religion group
-		any_country = {
-			limit = { religion_group = christian }
-			set_country_flag = started_as_christian
-		}
-		any_country = {
-			limit = { religion_group = muslim }
-			set_country_flag = started_as_muslim
-		}
-		any_country = {
-			limit = { religion_group = eastern }
-			set_country_flag = started_as_eastern
-		}
-		any_country = {
-			limit = { religion_group = pagan }
-			set_country_flag = started_as_pagan
+		random_owned = {
+			limit = {
+				has_global_flag = sacra_romanum_imperium
+			}
+
+			any_country = {
+				limit = { religion_group = christian }
+				set_country_flag = started_as_christian
+			}
+			any_country = {
+				limit = { religion_group = muslim }
+				set_country_flag = started_as_muslim
+			}
+			any_country = {
+				limit = { religion_group = eastern }
+				set_country_flag = started_as_eastern
+			}
+			any_country = {
+				limit = { religion_group = pagan }
+				set_country_flag = started_as_pagan
+			}
 		}
 # closing brackets for this event - leave alone
 	}

--- HRE_War_of_the_League_of_Provincename.txt	Thu Jul 02 22:38:15 2009
+++ HRE_War_of_the_League_of_Provincename.txt	Mon Jul 13 20:57:03 2009
@@ -862,12 +862,14 @@
 		}
 		EMP = { add_idea = ecumenism prestige = 0.05 }
 		random_owned = {	# precludes the second response
-			limit = { owner = { religion = catholic } }
+			limit = { owner = { religion = catholic } }		
 			set_global_flag = HRE_reformation_second_response
 			set_global_flag = HRE_reformation_final
 			clr_global_flag = imperial_war_in_progress
-			clr_country_flag = HRE_governing_leader
-			clr_country_flag = HRE_catholic_leader
+			owner = {
+				clr_country_flag = HRE_governing_leader
+				clr_country_flag = HRE_catholic_leader
+			}
 		}
 		badboy = -1
 # AI strategy
@@ -2876,7 +2878,7 @@
 		random_country = {
 			limit = {
 				is_emperor = yes
-				THIS = { owner = { ai = yes } }
+				THIS = { ai = yes }
 			}
 			set_country_flag = threat
 			set_country_flag = trigger_adjustment

--- HRE_Demands_Return.txt	Mon Jun 22 01:33:33 2009
+++ HRE_Demands_Return.txt	Mon Jul 13 01:54:07 2009
@@ -81,7 +81,7 @@
 			religion_group = christian
 		}
 		emperor = { num_of_cities = 1 }
-		NOT = { any_known_country = { has_country_flag = hre_aggressor } }
+		NOT = { owner = { any_known_country = { has_country_flag = hre_aggressor } } }
 		NOT = { has_global_flag = HRE_reformation_war }
 		NOT = { has_global_flag = HRE_social_revolution }
 		owner = { is_revolution_target = no }
@@ -3431,7 +3431,7 @@
 			religion_group = christian
 		}
 		emperor = { num_of_cities = 1 }
-		NOT = { any_known_country = { has_country_flag = hre_aggressor } }
+		NOT = { owner = { any_known_country = { has_country_flag = hre_aggressor } } }
 		NOT = { has_global_flag = HRE_reformation_war }
 		NOT = { has_global_flag = HRE_social_revolution }
 		owner = { is_revolution_target = no }

[Drakken]

I have a suggestion concerning annexation of Electors inside the Empire without claims on its territory. Shouldn't it be enough to put the country to the ban of the Empire and, thus, have the Emperor gain Events or, even, decisions to intervene directly against this?

In my Imperial current game, the Palatinate has aggressively annexed Mainz during a big Empire-wide war and I, as Emperor, have no means to reestablish it according to the provisions of the Golden Bull. Even if I have it released by peace treaty, which I did, it has lost its Elector hat and I am, now, at 6 Electors.

I find the situation rather odd, as in real life the turmoil caused by such an annexation would be huge, especially for the Palatinate.

[Ignatich]

Fix for always false check (there are similar places, search for flemish checks):

--- peasantswar.txt	Wed Jun 24 11:50:41 2009
+++ peasantswar.txt	Mon Jul 13 22:46:32 2009
@@ -1586,9 +1586,9 @@
 		culture_group = germanic
 		religion_group = christian
 		NOT = { culture = dutch }
-		AND = {
+		NOT = {
 			NOT = { has_global_flag = magna_mundi }
-			NOT = { culture = flemish }
+			culture = flemish
 		}
 		check_variable = { which = social_revolution value = 14 }
 		DDR = { check_variable = { which = revolution_potential value = 1 } }

[Helius]

Aha. Another minor annoying bug.

All fixed in today's release.

[Helius]

Ignatich, thank you so very much for your painstaking bug-fixing efforts! I have repaired all genuine bugs you found, including the event 610.

Some things were not genuine bugs, however:

 # setting up rivals
@@ -3153,21 +3155,27 @@
 			capital_scope = { province_event = 117004 }
 		}
 # flagging religion group

Not a bug. Since this event will always fire for EMP, a country that does not own any province, adding an owner scope here would in fact break the code.

+		NOT = {
 			NOT = { has_global_flag = magna_mundi }
-			NOT = { culture = flemish }
+			culture = flemish
 		}

This is a bug, but the fix would be to make it:

OR = {
  not = { has_global_flag = sacra_romanum_imperium } # if run in MM
  not = { culture = flemish }
}

As for "units_in_province = THIS", I believe that this is how it works. Check the use of it in vanilla files.