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Rastar said:
Your success on defections is inspiring. In my one test so far, I sat on a 30-province non-lucky same-religion country with 100% warscore for 10 years and only got 1 defection. Based on that, my initial conclusion was that it was not that useful of a mechanic. However, based on your results I will definitely have to study the modifiers to MTTH more closely when I get home.

WE, Stability, and Prestige are the key. Granted, they go hand in hand if you completely occupy a country. Also, after looking at the code again, you can't get provinces with the owner's culture (not culture group, mind you) to secede. That may have been part of it.

Code:
province_event = {

	id =  746
	trigger = {
		owner = {
			war_exhaustion = 15
			war = yes
			NOT = { war_score = -10 }
		}
		
		is_capital = no
		has_owner_culture = no
		garrison = 1000
		has_siege = no
		
		NOT = { controlled_by = owner }
		NOT = { controller = { tag = REB } }
		NOT = { controller = { tag = NAT } }
		NOT = { controller = { tag = PIR } }
		controller = { 
			NOT = { war_exhaustion = 5 }
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 300
		modifier = {
			factor = 5.0
			luck = yes
		}		
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.8
			has_owner_religion = no
		}		
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.8
			NOT = { prestige = 0 }
		}		
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.8
			NOT = { prestige = -0.5 }
		}	
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.8
			NOT = { stability = 0 }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.8
			badboy = 1.0
		}					
	}

	title = "EVTNAME746"
	desc = "EVTDESC746"
		
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA746"
		controller = { country_event = 747 }
	}
}


country_event = {

	id =  747
	is_triggered_only = yes


	title = "EVTNAME747"
	desc = "EVTDESC747"
		
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA747"
		FROM = { secede_province = THIS }
		badboy = 1
	}
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTB747"
		prestige = -0.01
	}
}
 
Chapter 14: Prettier borders and expansion into Italy

The war with France had again wound down to an occupation.

Oct. 1 1452: Our first new core not from a mission or dispute!
P97_Neverscore.jpg


Oct. 1, 1453: Salzburg votes for Charles, completing the mission. Now Wurzburg must vote for us.
P98_Mission11Success.jpg


Feb. 1 1454: Wurzburg votes for Charles. Now God wants the Emperor to make nice with Bohemia. God can sit and spin.
P99_Mission12success.jpg

P100_Mission13.jpg


Aug. 21, 1454: France surrenders Champagne and Orleans. France now only has Armor, Maine, Poitou, and Vendee.

May 30, 1455: Charles sends requests to Switzerland, Lorraine, the Papal States, Naples, and Genoa, asking them to join him rather than be mere vassals. Genoa and Naples accept.
P101_2vassalsannexed.jpg


Map as of June 1, 1455:
Map6-1-1455.jpg


Explanations:
* More screenshots lost. Sheesh. Maybe I'll have to resort to an ASCII graphic map as punishment.
* If you send all your annexation requests on the same day, you can annex multiple vassals at once, and only suffer 1 decentralization penalty. However, your relations with your remaining vassals will tank - I have to quickly bribe the Pope to avoid excommunication.
 
naggy said:
WE, Stability, and Prestige are the key. Granted, they go hand in hand if you completely occupy a country. Also, after looking at the code again, you can't get provinces with the owner's culture (not culture group, mind you) to secede. That may have been part of it.

Thanks! Now I can think about this at work, rather than actually...working.


Yes I think the different-culture requirement knocked most of the provinces out for me. May have been running WE above 5 for a portion of the time as well. As far as your experiences in this AAR, it now makes sense why you saw even better results against France in war #2 than war #1. In war #2, would guess that you were getting more of the positive modifiers around prestige and stability.


Very interesting to think about large countries where this either would or would not be effective. It should be a great tool for going after AI warmongers, particularly if you can stab-hit them a few times. I’m thinking about Ottos when they take over the Balkans, and would have high BB as well as a ton of wrong-religion provinces. On the other end of the scale, it would not be particularly useful against Ming. Almost all of their rich coastal provinces are Chihan, and most of their Cantonese provinces are poor.
 
naggy said:
* If you send all your annexation requests on the same day, you can annex multiple vassals at once, and only suffer 1 decentralization penalty. However, your relations with your remaining vassals will tank - I have to quickly bribe the Pope to avoid excommunication.

Does the "same-day request" also get around the 10-year timer, or did they remove that feature in 3.1?
 
Chapter 15: The calm before the storm

August 4, 1454:
Adviser: "Your Majesty! You have humbled France, defended the Holy Roman Empire, and created one of the most powerful states in Europe! Perhaps you should proclaim an Empire?"
Emperor: "How does that work? I'm already an Emperor."
Adviser: "Uh. We shall form a committee to determine that, sire."

August 15th:
Adviser: "Our committee is having trouble sire. First, we have to determine a name, since the King of France has not yet given up his title - we cannot yet call ourselves the French Empire. So, we have a Subcommittee on the Emperor's Realm, the Subcommittee on the Emperor's Title, and the Subcommittee on the Emperor's Coronation, so that we might celebrate your ascendancy properly."

September 4th:
Emperor: "Do you have anything yet?"
Advisor: "We have 4 new subcommittees..."
Emperor: "Aaaaaaaarrgh! Fine. We're the Provencal Empire. You're all fired! Go tell the cavalry to trample you."

August 25, 1457: Rene II succeeds Charles III as Emperor (6/3/5). He's so impressive, I failed to notice him for years. (edited during writing for Chapter 17)

October 5th, 1458:
Austrian Ambassador: "Your Imperial Majesty, the Hungarian king has willed his throne to us, but the heathens of Muscowy have chosen to declare war on us to press their claims to the throne. Will you aid us?"
Emperor: "You realize where Provence is, right? And where Moscow is?"
Austrian Ambassador: "Yes sire, but your cavalry is feared the world over. We are certain that just an appearance would be enough to strike fear into their hearts."
Emperor: "I promise to send the cavalry as soon as possible."
*Austrian Ambassador exits stage right.*
Emperor: "General, find whoever the last dolt was to get in trouble, put him on the worst horse we've got, give him a uniform, and send him to Moscow."
General: "Yes sire."
P102_HungarianSuccession.jpg


October 1459: The Bohemians sponsor some rebels. Bastards. God also wants us to create a proper fleet. Again. With 1 core port. Damn you, God!
P103_Czechsendspatriots.jpg

P104_Mission14.jpg


The last round of wars and vassalizations has somewhat angered the electors.
P105_Electors.jpg


England has formed Great Britain, and they're massing on the borders...and has a mission to vassalize France. Interesting.
P106_GBMissionVassalizeFrance.jpg

P107_GBmassestroops.jpg


Our trade is suffering, due to a 45% penalty from 3 non-core COTs.
P108_Tradesuffers.jpg


A good diplomat! We'll need him...
P109_5stardiplomat.jpg


Castille may be a problem, since I don't want anyone powerful having "Italian Ambitions"
P110_CastilleItalianAmbitions.jpg


March 31, 1463: Our best general dies, thus ensuring we'll need him.
P111_BestGeneralDies.jpg
 
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Rastar said:
Does the "same-day request" also get around the 10-year timer, or did they remove that feature in 3.1?

Yes. IMHO, the ubermassive drop in relations (-50 for failing, and -50 to every vassal for every vassal you annex) makes it pretty harsh. You end up shelling out a lot of ducats to get relations back up.
 
Rastar said:
On the other end of the scale, it would not be particularly useful against Ming. Almost all of their rich coastal provinces are Chihan, and most of their Cantonese provinces are poor.

It means you can spend your war score on rich provinces, and steal the Cantonese provinces via defection, lowering their manpower.
 
naggy said:
It means you can spend your war score on rich provinces, and steal the Cantonese provinces via defection, lowering their manpower.

Yes I could, but would prefer to leave most of the Cantonese provinces with them...even though will leave them with more manpower. I have had bad experiences in the past trying to Westernize large countries. The only way it goes quickly enough for me is by cherry-picking provinces.

Now, if I was a European nation and fighting Ming towards the end of the game, then Ming would probably have expanded into a ton of non-culture provinces and defection could work wonders.
 
Chapter 16: One step closer

The Provencal Empire had enjoyed a decade of peace, but peace is often fleeting.

During 1464, Castille, Portugal, and France ended up in a war with Great Britain and Lithuania, which ended with Britain taking Armor (which was a Provencal core) and Vendee.
P112_GBbeatsFrance.jpg


In late 1464, the diplomat Miqueu d'Entrecasteaux was celebrated for his great works, which helped temper the Empire's somewhat tarnished reputation.
P113_GreatDiplomat.jpg


Also, God made it clear that the Emperor needed more votes, so Trier was to see the light. That was taken care of in early January, at which point rebels had attacked Apulia, and needed to be driven off.
P114_Mission15.jpg

P115_Mission16.jpg


Next, God demanded that we take Poitou from France. That Poitou was the King's new capital was his problem.Thus, in August 1465, war was declared against France, bringing Castille, Holland, and Nevers in on the King's side. Castille might be a problem, but France and Nevers couldn't fight off a cold, and Holland's armies were quickly crushed by Imperial cavalry.
P116_Mission17.jpg

P117_LastwarwithFrance.jpg


Nevers accepted vassalization on January 24th, 1466. France followed suit on July 24th, giving up Poitou, ceding claims, and becoming a vassal of his former duke. Holland ceded Zeeland and 1150 ducats on July 22, 1467.
P118_Neversvassal.jpg

P119_FranceVassal.jpg

P123_HollandcedesZeeland.jpg


Meanwhile, in September 1466, Denmark again attacked an Imperial state, this time Hamburg.
P120_DenmarkvsHamburg.jpg


After Poitou fell, God demanded a Royal Marriage with Thuringia, and then that the Emperor secure Mainz' vote.
P121_Mission18.jpg

P122_Mission19.jpg


The Danish war continued, and in 1467, there were signs of corruption and then a scandal at the court, both of which caused the Empire to slightly destabalize. However, the Empire was fundamentally sound, and poised for greatness.
P124_Corruption.jpg

P125_Scandal.jpg


Right?
 
Intermission #2

Status as of November 26, 1467:
Prestige: 82
Stability: 1
Treasury: 1424
Trade: 5 merchants in 3 owned COTs. 0 merchants in unowned COTs.

Armies: 50K cavalry, 6K infantry
Navy: 12 cogs, 4 galleys

Provinces: 39 (7 core)
Cores: No new cores until the 3 Dutch territories from Burgundy turn core in 1472. From then on, cores will steadily pop.
Vassals: Lorraine, Switzerland, Papal State, Mantua, Saxony, Brunswick, France, Nevers
Uncontrolled cores: Armor, Maine

Other developments of note:
* GB has formed, and has 7 French provinces. Wales, however, is independent.
* Provence has only 1 core seaport, which means only 1 ship can be built at a time, and the naval forcelimits are small.
* Only 9 provinces are unconnected to the capitol.
* France is on their 3rd capitol of the game (Paris, Poitou, Maine)

Map:
Map11-26-1467.jpg
 
Last edited:
OK. I raced a bit to get this stuff posted because...

On November 27th, GB declared war, bringing Milan and Aragon in. I was already at war with Castille, but Castille had no way to get to me. I was also besieging part of Denmarp. On December 8th. Venice declared war on me, and brought Austria to the party.

This war was brought to you by the under-calculation of War Capacity for the Holy Roman Emperor - my forces are well below my forcelimits, because the HRE gets ridiculous force limits. GB also considers me a rival, and I'm sitting on her Norman cores. Venice jumped in because GB did, and I have her cores as well.

Should I:
1.) Squash all my enemies and occupy them to shake loose their non-culture provinces, then demand a harsh peace?
Non-culture provinces held by enemies: 7 French provinces from GB, 1 province from Milan, 6 provinces from Aragon, 1 province from Austria, 7 provinces from Castille.
Best case outcomes: 5 province Aragon gives up 3-4 provinces or vassalizes, GB releases 1-2 nations, Venice releases Crete (becomes OPM) or vassalizes, Austria loses 3-4 provinces, Milan loses 3-4 provinces, Castille loses 3-4 provinces.

2.) Peace out with Austria since it's too far away, try to get Venice out of the war quick (since I can't easily cross the strait), then crush GB's alliance for all I can.

3.) Fight for best possible outcome, then peace out after 10 years to annex France (and any other vassals that feel like it) ASAP so as to create France when cores pop.

4.) Fight until AI is willing to talk peace, then throw off unnecessary vassals for quick peace.

5.) #1, but keep war going until Navy can be raised, then try to get Scotland and Ireland to defect.

Note: Option 1 and 5 may trigger BB wars, which means I would have to release France as a vassal and force annex.

Voting is open until I have time to play the game again. :)
 
Jambor said:
Woah... maga update spree. Me likey!
Thank you! Updates will slow down, seeing as I've:
1.) caught up with my save game
2.) often have a baby on my lap when playing, which complicates things.
 
I'd try 2 plus 5. A three front war is too much. Austria isn't likely to be a major threat to you in the future (at least, it seems that way in IN), so you can leave them for later. I'd suggest the same with Milan, but Milan might be easy enough to take.
 
also, it'd be a pity to form France and have it - in a way - rise again. Then it'll look just like any other France game.
 
That was a lot of updates, and they're great too. :)

I would suggest 2 or 3. How will you manage to annex France now that they're your vassal? I haven't played 3.1 yet, but in 3.0 I would get impossible when trying to annex vassals when I had even just a little BB.
 
rasmus40 said:
That was a lot of updates, and they're great too. :)

I would suggest 2 or 3. How will you manage to annex France now that they're your vassal? I haven't played 3.1 yet, but in 3.0 I would get impossible when trying to annex vassals when I had even just a little BB.

Yeah, that'll be a problem. My BB isn't horrible atm, so it would probably be around 25-30% chance in 10 years, assuming I don't go hog wild in this war or get beaten like a drum.
 
General questions:

1.) 3.2 increases the WE:RR ration from .5 back to 1. Should I mod the game thusly?
2.) Should I even form France? If no, what about forming France as the very very last action of the game? :)
3.) Should I consider a Provence WC? (this war is the perfect jump-off point, I'd say)