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boromir said:
HOI2 was a bit disappointing to me, as were the other more recent Paradox titles. I hope that HOI3 takes more inspiration from HOI1, which had a much bigger "fun factor" to it than HOI2. At least sticking to 2D is a promising start, the map looks nice - having EU3 graphics would have been a no-no for me. 10k provinces should also not be a substitute for poor combat mechanics (leading to WW2 ending in 41/42 amongst others). It would also help if Paradox did make an attempt at MP balancing the game before release (and then trying to adjust AI according for SP), but I guess that is just wishful thinking.
Err...The game is 3d...
 
The_Carbonater said:
I agree with the poor combat mechanics but I have not seen WW2 ending in 41/42 (except when playing as USSR). Also, the "fun factor" differs from person to person, I've had much more fun with HoI2 and EU3 than with CK and EU2.

Hmm, always had for me, regardless whether its HOI2 or HOI1 (unless you mod it of course). I used to play MP mostly, as the AI, as in all Paradox games is no challenge at all - taking any major in any Paradox game you will win on your first game if you have any experience in any strategy games before.

Naturally, the "fun factor" is a matter of taste. However, Paradox has been adopting the "Victoria" style more and more to its games, which is something I am not a fan of. I guess this style could be summed up as "you do not play the game, the game plays you". I loved HOI1 (despite the alpha state of the initial release) and EU2, did not like CK, Victoria or EU3. HOI2 was somewhere in the middle - it did improve SP play somewhat compared to HOI1, but failed with MP.

On another note, 10k provinces sounds like something difficult to manage for MP play.
 
boromir said:
... Paradox has been adopting the "Victoria" style more and more to its games, which is something I am not a fan of. I guess this style could be summed up as "you do not play the game, the game plays you"...

I don't understand what you mean by this. I'd say the opposite was true. The trend has been towards greater simplicity and away from determinism.
 
Well it looks like there might be some meaningful resistance during Sealion, with a little bit more land to trade off.

I've always held the view that there should be stacking limits (or penalties) in provences - even more so for the smaller provinces. Modified, of course, by terrain and infrastructure.

And will the sea provinces receive the same treatment?
 
Oh yes, there definitely has to be stacking penalties and command limits on the defence aswell. Apart from the realism effects, this would also help against the type of AI superstacking where two opposing AIs crash by pouring more and more units into bordering provinces trying to outnumber the enemy at a static bottleneck.
 
Thank god(Johan)

Well i really like the approach the map is taking, the definition that is written is great, a WWII map hung up on a wall or layed out on a table :) great..

1 thing that bothers my eye though is the borders, they are very computerlike, would it be possible to get some smoothing of the edges to remove the staircase look ?
 
KimSand said:
1 thing that bothers my eye though is the borders, they are very computerlike, would it be possible to get some smoothing of the edges to remove the staircase look ?

You can smooth it out a bit, but not by much. You can also randomise it a bit (this even works as a screen-space pixel shader), which is - I think - more fitting for a map. A quick and dirty mock-up would look like this:

england_randomised.jpg


It would be much better if the underlying graphic format of the map would be a vector one like KML instead of BMP. This would allow for very small details at highest zoom levels while still making the map readable when looking at the global situation. Also, randomising (for added detail) a vector map without creating ugly artefacts is much easier than doing it to a bitmap.
 
mbb said:
Well it looks like there might be some meaningful resistance during Sealion, with a little bit more land to trade off.

I've always held the view that there should be stacking limits (or penalties) in provences - even more so for the smaller provinces. Modified, of course, by terrain and infrastructure.

And will the sea provinces receive the same treatment?

I agree, but let us not forget the tactical aspect of stacking one's forces in an area, at the expense of other parts of the line. (not that you were saying that, I'm just pointing it out)
 
KimSand said:
Well i really like the approach the map is taking, the definition that is written is great, a WWII map hung up on a wall or layed out on a table :) great..

1 thing that bothers my eye though is the borders, they are very computerlike, would it be possible to get some smoothing of the edges to remove the staircase look ?
This is from this thread.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=379938&page=2

OHGamer said:
Now, all this flexibility does come at a price - because the smallest graphical unit is a pixel, and most provinces are going to be only a few dozen pixels square at most, there is going to be a degree of "blockiness" to the map that simply can not be avoided. Even with the HoI3 map being 3x the size of the EU3 map, the simple reality is that the overall size of the map means that a pixel in size will be more than a few dozen square miles, making it rather more difficult to represent a potential perfectly "smooth" border. It would only be possible to have "smooth" borders if the base map were to be something say 9x the size of the EU3 map (something say the size of the Clio map project I'm working on for Victoria, which has dimensions of approx 30Kx12K pixels), so that individual pixels represent a much smaller area of land and even the smallest provinces would be several hundred square pixels square in size. And a map that size, with all of the functionalities of the EU3 map, would likely require everyone to have super-power graphics cards that few today have. Most computers, facing a map as large as Clio based on EU3's map structure, would probably seize up.
 
Luka said:
I agree, but let us not forget the tactical aspect of stacking one's forces in an area, at the expense of other parts of the line. (not that you were saying that, I'm just pointing it out)
I'm not sure I understand your point. Would you elaborate?
 
sbr said:
My understanding is the increased number of provinces will reduce force concentrations.
Across a wide front perhaps. But not a narrow front and it might not affect nations like the SU or China as much as a nation like Germany or Japan.

I can see that the SU could overwhelm Germany by sheer numbers over a wide front even more so than is the case in HOI2. A German player might resort to 'hedgehogging' to mitigate the odds, so adding the extra provinces might not really add much more to the game, and could make micro-management worse.
 
Thanks Johan for the info. May I suggest something for HOI3? If you can split pacific island in two a beach and an inland. It would avoid fake invasion like 20 marines attacking and winning but only one or none is really moving on the island. With an inland it will force the marine to disembark to finish the job. It would be nice to give arty brigade missions like airplane or boat. I imagine arty bombing enemy troop without having a full attack. It would force the enemy troop to attack and will give arty a edge against tank anly troop.

Long live Paulson!
 
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i hope this is not the final look of the map
turkey is not as it should be :confused:
especially bosphorus, izmir and eastern borders are a little bit strange :wacko:
 
Thracian said:
i hope this is not the final look of the map
turkey is not as it should be :confused:
especially bosphorus, izmir and eastern borders are a little bit strange :wacko:
I think we need not worry, there will be a Bosporus on the map soon enough. I'm sure plenty of changes will be made to the map before release.