Development Diary #1 - 15th of October 2008

[Wobbler]

Oh yes, there definitely has to be stacking penalties and command limits on the defence aswell. Apart from the realism effects, this would also help against the type of AI superstacking where two opposing AIs crash by pouring more and more units into bordering provinces trying to outnumber the enemy at a static bottleneck.

[KimSand]

Well i really like the approach the map is taking, the definition that is written is great, a WWII map hung up on a wall or layed out on a table great..

1 thing that bothers my eye though is the borders, they are very computerlike, would it be possible to get some smoothing of the edges to remove the staircase look ?

[Akjosch]

1 thing that bothers my eye though is the borders, they are very computerlike, would it be possible to get some smoothing of the edges to remove the staircase look ?

You can smooth it out a bit, but not by much. You can also randomise it a bit (this even works as a screen-space pixel shader), which is - I think - more fitting for a map. A quick and dirty mock-up would look like this:



It would be much better if the underlying graphic format of the map would be a vector one like KML instead of BMP. This would allow for very small details at highest zoom levels while still making the map readable when looking at the global situation. Also, randomising (for added detail) a vector map without creating ugly artefacts is much easier than doing it to a bitmap.

[Luka]

Well it looks like there might be some meaningful resistance during Sealion, with a little bit more land to trade off.

I've always held the view that there should be stacking limits (or penalties) in provences - even more so for the smaller provinces. Modified, of course, by terrain and infrastructure.

And will the sea provinces receive the same treatment?

I agree, but let us not forget the tactical aspect of stacking one's forces in an area, at the expense of other parts of the line. (not that you were saying that, I'm just pointing it out)

[sbr]

Well i really like the approach the map is taking, the definition that is written is great, a WWII map hung up on a wall or layed out on a table great..

1 thing that bothers my eye though is the borders, they are very computerlike, would it be possible to get some smoothing of the edges to remove the staircase look ?

This is from this thread.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...=379938&page=2

Now, all this flexibility does come at a price - because the smallest graphical unit is a pixel, and most provinces are going to be only a few dozen pixels square at most, there is going to be a degree of "blockiness" to the map that simply can not be avoided. Even with the HoI3 map being 3x the size of the EU3 map, the simple reality is that the overall size of the map means that a pixel in size will be more than a few dozen square miles, making it rather more difficult to represent a potential perfectly "smooth" border. It would only be possible to have "smooth" borders if the base map were to be something say 9x the size of the EU3 map (something say the size of the Clio map project I'm working on for Victoria, which has dimensions of approx 30Kx12K pixels), so that individual pixels represent a much smaller area of land and even the smallest provinces would be several hundred square pixels square in size. And a map that size, with all of the functionalities of the EU3 map, would likely require everyone to have super-power graphics cards that few today have. Most computers, facing a map as large as Clio based on EU3's map structure, would probably seize up.

[mbb]

I agree, but let us not forget the tactical aspect of stacking one's forces in an area, at the expense of other parts of the line. (not that you were saying that, I'm just pointing it out)

I'm not sure I understand your point. Would you elaborate?

[sbr]

I'm not sure I understand your point. Would you elaborate?

My understanding is the increased number of provinces will reduce force concentrations.

[mbb]

My understanding is the increased number of provinces will reduce force concentrations.

Across a wide front perhaps. But not a narrow front and it might not affect nations like the SU or China as much as a nation like Germany or Japan.

I can see that the SU could overwhelm Germany by sheer numbers over a wide front even more so than is the case in HOI2. A German player might resort to 'hedgehogging' to mitigate the odds, so adding the extra provinces might not really add much more to the game, and could make micro-management worse.

[Galaran]

Thanks Johan for the info. May I suggest something for HOI3? If you can split pacific island in two a beach and an inland. It would avoid fake invasion like 20 marines attacking and winning but only one or none is really moving on the island. With an inland it will force the marine to disembark to finish the job. It would be nice to give arty brigade missions like airplane or boat. I imagine arty bombing enemy troop without having a full attack. It would force the enemy troop to attack and will give arty a edge against tank anly troop.

Long live Paulson!

[hansnery]

I guess building land and coastal fortresses wil be more cheap, because the are a lot more provinces, for example, finishing the maginot line would be a lot more expensive.

[Thracian]

i hope this is not the final look of the map
turkey is not as it should be
especially bosphorus, izmir and eastern borders are a little bit strange

[The Great Duck]

This map shows only the UK...

[Thracian]

This map shows only the UK...

there is a ss in gamespot that shows whole europe
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...result;title;0

[Kouei]

i hope this is not the final look of the map
turkey is not as it should be
especially bosphorus, izmir and eastern borders are a little bit strange

I think we need not worry, there will be a Bosporus on the map soon enough. I'm sure plenty of changes will be made to the map before release.

[skorzney]

just a suggestion but if you want the map to feel like a ww2 map then shouldnt it be hand drawn ?

[The Great Duck]

It has been said for thousands of times that the game will be in 3d,live with it.

[ozidnz]

If you play with counters, you can play with 2D map.

[potski]

If you play with counters, you can play with 2D map.

No you can't, the 3D view is just locked in a near-vertical mode. I assume this is because the result of looking at the map at an acute angle would be to see a side-on view of the counters, rather than the top which has the information on it.

just a suggestion but if you want the map to feel like a ww2 map then shouldnt it be hand drawn ?

You mean like the mappae mundi? You think they had no printing in WW2?

[dani201]

i just hope paradox realizes the importance of having roads and railways included in the map, and not in the form of infrastructure

[RogersRanger]

Once upon a time the Swedes created the most beautiful map ever in a computer game (Europa Universalis I & II). It was the pinnacle of map making in pc games - then they smited it (because they could?!?). Now they have to make every subsequent map uglier, less accurate, and less user friendly than the next. I am truly curious to see how terribly butchered the US states/borders are in HoI3 and how much more drab and coma-inducing the visuals can be this time around.