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Thread: WIELKOPOLSKA - Rise of the White Eagle - A Polish AAR

  1. #1201
    Black Hound of Han Enewald's Avatar
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    Omg, I love so much the graphics of this aar!

    Option 3 sounds like it could keep the cavalry useful still for a while.
    Brilliant!

  2. #1202
    Heartbreaker canonized's Avatar
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    meticulous and awesome as usual , rob XD The little sidebar on the spy game was also very cool showing us the little gadgets ! Excellent update !
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  3. #1203
    Wonderful as ever. The fight against the Bear will be so much more satisfying for us to watch now that we're so well-informed on the labour that's gone into it, and of course what will continue to go into it. I daren't guess when the push will come, but I suspect you'll be building and trading for quite a while yet...

    Also, might I inquire as to the French flag you're using? I don't recognise it from anything that I've studied. I presume France is still the Third Republic in your timeline?

  4. #1204
    Thank you Robw963 for bringing the photo from my home town
    This "Pinsk radio monitoring station" is very important symbol of the Poland in WW2.
    Funny thing - it's still used today by local radio and cell phones companies

    Regards
    Zibi

  5. #1205
    Man Of Many Wiles Demi Moderator Lord Strange's Avatar
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    Another gloriusly graphic update *applauds*
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  6. #1206
    Quote Originally Posted by robw963 View Post
    It will be important to assign Logistics Wizards to as much of my mobile forces as possible because of the signficantly higher supply and oil consumption. This will be particularly crucial as I look forward to a Russian campaign where I intend to have many armored korps operating on Offesnive Supply simulataneously.
    I did not know that this trait decreases the initial supply consumption of offensive supply. That's useful to know and makes Logistic Wizards more important indeed.

    I'm not 100% confident that my evaluation system is completely valid and I certainly welcome any and all commentary.
    Although I'm not sure whether your numbers compute something really meaningful (the constant divisor of 10 is rather arbitrary, isn't it?), Option 4 is what I would choose from the formations you offered, so my feeling agrees with your result.

  7. #1207
    Cisár všetkých Slovákov demokratickid's Avatar
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    Another great update! I'd say option 4, if I were you...
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  8. #1208
    Captain gooy's Avatar
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    wow, the analysis is really impressive. it's hard to say anything about the validity of your formula. many factors are not taken into account, but on the other hand i don't know any other formula of this kind that has been battle tested, to get any comparison.
    were those formations the only ones you've analyzed ? i would be interested in the performance of LArm III + MotInf II + Cav IV. getting a reasonable task for the cavalry divisions to fulfill is one of the goals of this AAR IIRC and mixing them into battle groups looks like more fun, than keeping them behind the frontlines for partisan fighting duties (for which you're using militias anyway).
    and it is really nice seeing Hubal getting his own armored unit
    keep it up

  9. #1209
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    Yes, more cavalry! This is a Polish AAR after all. At least have one cavalry based group. Please?

    I vote option 3! But what do I know, I mostly play EU3 and even though cavalry works great there maybe HoI2 is different?

  10. #1210
    Saver of the World robw963's Avatar
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    So here's an interesting graph. I applied the same formation score formula used in the last update to a pure Infantry Korp comprised of 3 Infantry '41 divisions. The score was ENORMOUS (compared to the mobile formations anyway). The main reason for this is because the supply usage for infantry is so much lower. It's not all that impressive from a manpower efficiency standpoint, but it's still interesting to see for comparison purposes.


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  11. #1211
    Saver of the World robw963's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enewald View Post
    Option 3 sounds like it could keep the cavalry useful still for a while.
    Brilliant!
    Believe it or not I'm going to build more cavalry as soon as the Semi Motorized Cavalry tech is completed. My analysis demonstrated to me that they are a viable unit to mix into mobile korps, and as time goes on I can replace them with motorized infantry and then use them to hold down revolt risk in conquered Soviet territory.

    Quote Originally Posted by canonized View Post
    meticulous and awesome as usual , rob XD The little sidebar on the spy game was also very cool showing us the little gadgets ! Excellent update !
    It's not so easy finding cool spy gadgets from the WWII era...but these seemed plausible enough. I'll have a lot more fun with the intelligence stuff once I begin sending spies overseas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow View Post
    Wonderful as ever. The fight against the Bear will be so much more satisfying for us to watch now that we're so well-informed on the labour that's gone into it, and of course what will continue to go into it. I daren't guess when the push will come, but I suspect you'll be building and trading for quite a while yet...

    Also, might I inquire as to the French flag you're using? I don't recognise it from anything that I've studied. I presume France is still the Third Republic in your timeline?
    Thanks for the nice words! As I've mentioned previously, I love the preparation and planning aspect in this game and want to reveal as much of that as possible within the framework of this AAR. Lots more to come on that so stay tuned.

    The French flag is quite honestly a mistake. Awhile back, I was playing as France and roleplaying a Fascist version of France (conducting a WC campaign etc) and had modded all kinds of French fascist graphics similar to the way I've done so with Poland. I just never got around to replacing the correct French flag graphic into the gfx folder. The flag (as I recall, this was quite awhile ago now) was my own creation based on some French fascist graphics superimposed on a tricouleur French flag. Here's a larger version if you're curious:



    Quote Originally Posted by Zibi78 View Post
    Thank you Robw963 for bringing the photo from my home town
    This "Pinsk radio monitoring station" is very important symbol of the Poland in WW2.
    Funny thing - it's still used today by local radio and cell phones companies

    Regards
    Zibi
    How amazingly coincidental! I honestly had no knowledge of the Pinsk tower you're talking about and my placement there was purely by chance. Are you saying the photograph I found is actually the radio tower in Pinsk? If so, that's pretty amazing...but cool it all worked out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Strange View Post
    Another gloriusly graphic update *applauds*
    Thanks very much! I got a little caught up in the BWA analysis, but at least tried to maintain a decent level on the other graphics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zvetiki View Post
    I did not know that this trait decreases the initial supply consumption of offensive supply. That's useful to know and makes Logistic Wizards more important indeed.

    Although I'm not sure whether your numbers compute something really meaningful (the constant divisor of 10 is rather arbitrary, isn't it?), Option 4 is what I would choose from the formations you offered, so my feeling agrees with your result.
    Logistics Wizards decrease supply consumption for any unit within their command capacity by 25%, whether they're on Offensive Supply or not. That's especially useful for high consumption units like armored units. I'm not 100% sure, however, that a LW commander lowers the supply cost incurred when the unit is initally paced on OS. I'll have to test that and double check.

    Quote Originally Posted by demokratickid View Post
    Another great update! I'd say option 4, if I were you...
    Option 4 for sure, although I will be creating more cavalry units because of their unique combination of high BWA, lower manpower usage and decent suppression cability. Expect to see some hybrid formations at least for awhile until I build enough Mot Inf divisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by gooy View Post
    wow, the analysis is really impressive. it's hard to say anything about the validity of your formula. many factors are not taken into account, but on the other hand i don't know any other formula of this kind that has been battle tested, to get any comparison.
    were those formations the only ones you've analyzed ? i would be interested in the performance of LArm III + MotInf II + Cav IV. getting a reasonable task for the cavalry divisions to fulfill is one of the goals of this AAR IIRC and mixing them into battle groups looks like more fun, than keeping them behind the frontlines for partisan fighting duties (for which you're using militias anyway).
    and it is really nice seeing Hubal getting his own armored unit
    keep it up
    Here's a chart displaying the score analysis for the formation you described:



    It won't be unlikely for me to use this formation until I can build enough Mot Inf to fill each korp. I decided to mod in Hubal because he had to be one of the most exciting cavalry commanders in the Polish Army. It seem plausible that in this timeline who would rise through the ranks and move on to even greater things.

    Quote Originally Posted by johho888 View Post
    Yes, more cavalry! This is a Polish AAR after all. At least have one cavalry based group. Please?

    I vote option 3! But what do I know, I mostly play EU3 and even though cavalry works great there maybe HoI2 is different?
    Count on it! What would Poland be without cavalry! Be aware though, at this point in history, the traditional cavalry formation was pretty much obsolete. Poland, however, is slightly unique though since the cream of their armed forces was the cavalry...an extension of their proud Hussar tradition from the great past. It may not be the most strategically sound decision, but I can't imagine playing Poland without some kind of nod towards that tradition.

    "We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand, of overwhelming power on the other."
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    OUR LADY OF SORROWS - The Seven Tragedies of Poland

  12. #1212
    Saver of the World robw963's Avatar
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    Just one more thing about the Fascist French mod I was talking about. Here's the background I made for that that someone might find useful:


    "We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand, of overwhelming power on the other."
    - George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff

    Current AAR:
    AMERICA Saves the World! last update: February 15, 2013 voted favorite HOI AAR in 2012 Q3 and Q4 ACAs
    Incredibly outdated AARs:
    WIELKOPOLSKA - Rise of the White Eagle - A Polish AAR
    OUR LADY OF SORROWS - The Seven Tragedies of Poland

  13. #1213
    Quote Originally Posted by robw963 View Post
    Logistics Wizards decrease supply consumption for any unit within their command capacity by 25%... I'm not 100% sure, however, that a LW commander lowers the supply cost incurred when the unit is initally paced on OS.
    That was my point: they also decrease the intial consumption, I tested it. That the continuous consumption is lowered is normal.

  14. #1214
    Quote Originally Posted by robw963 View Post

    How amazingly coincidental! I honestly had no knowledge of the Pinsk tower you're talking about and my placement there was purely by chance. Are you saying the photograph I found is actually the radio tower in Pinsk? If so, that's pretty amazing...but cool it all worked out!
    Oops - I thought you know the original radio station you got photo from.
    It's kinda famous, because it's the "official" cause of the WW2
    Gleiwitz incident

    BTW. You'll find soon enough the strength of the cavalry in russian forests and marshes

    EDIT: typos

    Regards
    Zibi
    Last edited by Zibi78; 15-12-2008 at 20:57.

  15. #1215
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    I just spent the whole night reading this AAR. I can only say magnificent! The graphics are superb and the details you provide in each update make this AAR one of the most enjoyable ones I've read in AARland. Very good work! One just gained another reader!
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  16. #1216
    Captain gooy's Avatar
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    thx for the chart rob too bad this option seems to be worse than both, the option 3 and 4.

    i actually read only the AARs on this forum, so most probably somebody already had a similar idea -> the use of Mnt as mobile forces. on flat terrain they're as fast as normal infantry, but on hilly terain with forests (like the northern front of barbarossa) they can be useful for making encirclements.

    btw what land doctrine are you planning to follow ?

  17. #1217
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  19. #1219
    Field Marshal Kanitatlan's Avatar
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    My unit analysis approach uses some slightly different calculations. You may find the logic behind them interesting.

    I evaluate battle winning ability based on a combination of the standard BWA formula and speed. The issue here is that faster units can fight more often and hence use their ability more often. This can be logically argued as an effective increase in firepower. The argument goes that a unit that is twice as fast is twice as useful. This isn't really true but is close to it if you use the Kanitatlan tactical doctrine.

    This formulation does breakdown in that it has no impact on your org regain requirements. Faster units fighting twice as often will need to stop for org regain sooner so their long-term BWA isn't improved nearly as much as the full speed scaling but the boost they give at start of campiagn really is proportional to speed.

    On top of this being faster than the enemy is useful and this usefulness is very closely associated with actual speed advancing into enemy territory. If we assume a typical enemy speed of 4 (1939 Inf or brigaded 1941 Inf) then the benefit comes from speed above 5. Making a performance factor out of this starts to emphasise the useful differences between Cav, Mot I, Mot II+ and armour.

    A final point is the benefit of being a hard target. The 70% hardness of armour will typically halve the damage/org loss taken by that unit with the SPA benefit adding another 10% benefit. This effectively doubles the BWA of armoured units compared to infantry.

    As a side issue, I tend to focus on firepower based brigades (ie SPArt) but this is because I am usually pursuing a strategy of casualty minimisation. In your case I suggest you evaluate brigades by your own methods as you are going to be fighting to win rather than do so as cheaply as possible.

  20. #1220
    Quote Originally Posted by robw963 View Post
    Just one more thing about the Fascist French mod I was talking about. Here's the background I made for that that someone might find useful:
    Facist France which use a republican symbol ?
    Because RF, it's République Française
    "A poil !"

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