The British Isles Map Mod

Veldmaarschalk said:

And now you want to 8 add more or an increase of almost 1/3

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Yes, the raw number is not the point, it is balance between the added provinces verses England. The same revisions will have to go into place for Ireland and Scotland when we go there.

EVERY TIME there is a 1 income province England will claim it, war it, and win. All of them will be gone within a generation, unacceptably ahistorical. The increase in income is to balance England, which should not be able to steam-roll the other nations.

The arguments had always been that England was always overly strong, but the English camp did not want to reduce their incomes, so the Celtic Cressent was to be increased.

Had I not spoken up for Wales.... Wales would have remained an 11 without further consideration.

Reading through the thread you will see my initial request was for a higher number, between 20 and 26, for Wales, because I had then divided Wales basically into these provinces we have here and assigned numbers based off of Davies and other research.

This number is well within keeping of that research, does not effect England except cause them to wait a few generations longer before conquest, and we would have to revise Ireland and Scotland anyway!

EDIT: Wow, those conversations were 4 years ago and still valid today!

I'll see what effect the added income has (using your last proposed values D). Doesn't look too bad at first glance but I'll see how the AI handles it.

KK, in light of that committment, hehe, then I shall pull together my resources, find dynasties for those new provinces, and recommend geography. There is some fine tuning with the map of Wales still to do....

From the outset I can see that Kurek was influenced somewhat by a map appropriate for the Early Middle Ages rather then the High Middle Ages.

Outset Recommendations:

1. Seisyllwg (Seisyll's, or Cecil's, Country) should indeed be named Ceredigion ('Land of Ceredig') for the High Middle Ages.

2. Perfeddwald (Perfedd = 'middle', and (g)wald = 'country'), also known as Lower Gwynedd, should be hyphoned after the double d, so Perfedd-wald. The double d is one letter in Welsh and pronounced as th. And of corse a single f is pronounced as a v A double f (ff) makes the f sound as in English. So Ffranc for France, and Fenis for Venice.

3. Morgannwg (Morgan's Country) should be hyphoned after the first n, so Morgan-nwg.

4. Ynys Môn, for space restrictions, Môn would be appropriate as a stand alone name, dropping Ynys (Island). The name looks too squashed together otherwise.

5. Unsure at keeping Cynllibiwg (Cynllib's country), aka Rhwng Gwy a Hafren , meaning between Wye and Severn. This region was essentially to Powys what the Perfeddwald was to Gwynedd. Its origion is circumspect and ambigious. I will make some suggestions on this later.

6. Other map suggestions to follow.

7. I am uncertin if Dyfed or Pembroke should be the name of the region of Dyfed, given it must stand for 400 years and several scenarios. Likewise with Ystrad Tywi / Carmarthen.

Jord/Veld: Guidence here? Pembroke was established with the first invasions of Wales between 1067-1100, while Ystrad Tywi continued on as a province of an independent Principality of Wales (based on Gwynedd) until the 1282 Edwardian Conquest.


Gwynedd mountains
Môn should be plains
Perfeddwald should be hills

Powys should be hills
Cynllibiwg (if kept) should be hills

Ceredigion should be hills
Dyfed / Pembroke should be plains
Ystrad Tywi / Carmarthen should be hills or forest

Morgannwg should be hills
Breacons should be hills
Gwent should be forest

Great!

I do have some suggestions on the way the map is drawn... but am trying to find a source for you.

As to S. Powys. i am thinking it may be more appropriate for our time frame to name it Powys Fadog for ther north, and Powys Wynwynwyn.... lemme think on it while I find you an on-line map.

I won't have the time to adapt this map for the DVIP this weekend
It's on my todo list for whenever I get some time.

Drachenfire said:

Great!

I do have some suggestions on the way the map is drawn... but am trying to find a source for you.

As to S. Powys. i am thinking it may be more appropriate for our time frame to name it Powys Fadog for ther north, and Powys Wynwynwyn.... lemme think on it while I find you an on-line map.

Click to expand...

Here is map of medieval Wales

Veldmaarschalk said:

Here is map of medieval Wales

Click to expand...

Powys was divided following Llywelyn the Great's compleat subjection of Powys, and divided between the sons Madog and Gwenwynwyn. Thus Powys Fadog and Powys Wynwynwyn.

Powys Fadog was loyal to Llywelyn the Great... in point of fact his mother supposedly was the daughter of Madog Mathrafal of Powys Fadog.

I have no comment as yet. The text is very small for me on the map.

Drachenfire said:

I have no comment as yet. The text is very small for me on the map.

Click to expand...

Rivers have influence on battles, as I remember (when crossing a river, the attacker has a mlus). Or am I wrong?

They don't have any effect. You're thinking of the EU series
In theory they can be set to increase movement time, but that was not done. Even if this is done they will not have an effect on battles.
They serve no purpose in tech spreading either.

I hate to sound so very greedy, but the overall proportion of income could be maintained by maybe adjusting the provinces of England/Ireland/Scotland as well.

Therefore, it's something that could be figured out later after the historial (or not) map is settled first.

Curious, and have a point of note for the Ireland map, but, how easy is it to add the connections for techspread such? Specifically, on the vanilla map, with Desmumu, and for this one, with Corcaigh, there are a few places that Cork traded heavily with. Namely Galicia, in Spain, the Basque of Labourd, Leon in Brittany, Lisbon, and probably Wales and Cornwall. Cork was, even prior to the Cambro-Norman invasion, probably the most cosmopolitan Irish city, and was one of the places from which many ideas were transferred in and out of Ireland. Dublin's prominence shouldn't be understated, but it was neither as rich nor as well-positioned for trade with the continent, and instead traded more with Britain, and, via the north, in Scandinavia, and used some Scottish routes for Baltic trade as well. Not that, for Cork, I'd use all potential connections, just a few to give it a bit more clout as Ireland's southern cultural hub. As Desmumu, I'd just give it a few, so as to prevent all of Ireland's foreign developments coming from the east via Britain.

Creating a trade route is a matter of listing both ends (province numbers) in the correct file, nothing else to it.
Care must be given not to do this too much though, as it can easily be unbalancing.

Yes, I didn't want to give too many, just kind of listing the main areas they were dealing in, and kind of pick the most appropriate over a long period from them.

And it's that easy? That's pretty nice, considering how much a pain a lot of other things are.

Somairle said:

Curious, and have a point of note for the Ireland map, but, how easy is it to add the connections for techspread such? Specifically, on the vanilla map, with Desmumu, and for this one, with Corcaigh, there are a few places that Cork traded heavily with. Namely Galicia, in Spain, the Basque of Labourd, Leon in Brittany, Lisbon, and probably Wales and Cornwall. Cork was, even prior to the Cambro-Norman invasion, probably the most cosmopolitan Irish city, and was one of the places from which many ideas were transferred in and out of Ireland. Dublin's prominence shouldn't be understated, but it was neither as rich nor as well-positioned for trade with the continent, and instead traded more with Britain, and, via the north, in Scandinavia, and used some Scottish routes for Baltic trade as well. Not that, for Cork, I'd use all potential connections, just a few to give it a bit more clout as Ireland's southern cultural hub. As Desmumu, I'd just give it a few, so as to prevent all of Ireland's foreign developments coming from the east via Britain.

Click to expand...

For Wales the major trade routes came in from the south... Morgannwg and Dyfed... trade routes with Northern Spain and Brittany. In North Wales, Gwynedd and Mon should be connected with Ireland and Man.

KK, after refiew, this is my suggestion for the map.

1. The eastern border of Gwynedd should be moved eastward to match the Conwy river. For a reference on the map... the border would go between the P and he e in Perfedd, and also between the d and the w in 'dwald'. Then it would vere to the south east to the border of Powys. At first this would seem to make the Perfeddwald smaller, and it would... but I suggest also redrawing the eastern border to be more correct and have it closer to Chester. Currently, it appears the map gives a good fourth of the Perfeddwald to Chester.


2. I am certin now that the area now comprising Powys and Cynllibwg should be remapped. The northern third should be shaped more like Powys Fadog, while the southern half should be Powys Wenwynwyn. For Powys, the map should be shifted downward somewhat, so that Powys Wenwynwyn is also inhabiting Buillt and Maelienydd, both traditionally client commotes anyway.

3. I also think we should take special care to redraw the border with England to reflect more correctly Tegeingle and Maelor (where modern Wrecsam/Wrexham) is. But also redraw it to be more faithful to the historic borders of Wales.

4. I am having second thoughts on Dyfed and Ystrad Tywi. I think we should *keep* them Dyfed and Ystrad Tywi... your thoughts?

5. I think the provance for Dyfed should be cut in half, with Ceredigion enlarged, expanding more to the south along the cost, and also giving some to Ystrad Tywi.

For Kurek and Drachenfire, maybe a connection tween Dyfed and Urmumu? That is where the Deisi Mumu set out from centuries earlier to fight in Demetia (funny, long, odd story behind that whole event). And it was from where the Munstermen got their first longbow regiment (2000 longbows for the fortress of Cashel, in Desmumu on the CK map, was guarded by a permanent, retained regiment of 2000 longbows, imported from Wales at first, and then reinforced later with local bows; they came in through 'East Munster', Urmumu). edit: Heh, a note on that. Those are from the 1080s. They were, in one theory, imitating Welsh mercenaries. The Munstermen and Leinstermen used them a lot to bolster their numbers. In the 1080s, Munster decided to import Welsh longbows, and train their own longbowmen. Just to give some context for the thought given here beyond the 'dark age' (hate that term) connections.