All New Fatherland--Recruitment Thread

[nomonhan]

Gen Grant, the original Fatherland developer is busy with his new project Peace to End All Peaces, and has offered me the entire Fatherland mod to continue development. I think the original project was killed by trying to do just a little bit too much.

For the record, "Fatherland" comes from the name of a book based on the theme of Germany winning World War 2, but settling into a Cold War with the USA, which defeated Japan.

Twists have been added to make some Asian countries' play interesting, especially China (civil war between Chiang Kai-Shek and Pu Yi) and India (leader of the third bloc)

This will be an Armageddon only mod. It will be much easier to write and make compatible with people's existing games with Armageddon as a precondition. The original project was plagued with crashes which may be because of the requirement for a patched executable.

Volunteers for additional events needed, especially Latin America, Africa and the Middle East.

The ultimate goal is a scenario selectable from the menu.
EDIT: That is now a reality--the initial order of battle shows up. It will be finalized early this year (2009)

[Stefke]

i greet the idea but why only for armageddon?
do you plan DD version?

[nomonhan]

The reasons for Armageddon only are that 2 things are automatically taken care of:
1) extension of the time to 1963--does not need a patched executable
2) no need to develop new tech tree
The original was plagued by crashes and was in the words of its original developer "barely playable". Debugging of the crashes would require debugging of the tech tree as well as events, and there could always be something wrong with the program to do the no time limit patch (e. g. incompatibility with different versions of HOI2.exe). By making this an Armageddon mod these issues are bypassed.

Also Armageddon makes MANY new tags available. It will ultimately result in a better mod for this reason alone. Also you'd get Armageddon's new features like
1) ability to build units already pre-brigaded just like the AI
2) fractional off-map manpower command that actually works (almost essential for some revolters to function properly),
etc.

A DD port would be possible but would require modded tech tree, and a lot of other modded files not required by an Armageddon only mod, and would not work as well.

[ROMANU]

what? fatherland is good enough, just needs the exents to tie the world togather, because it gives me the feeling that the different evets have effects just in that part of the world

[C_Repine]

Sounds good to me, unfortunately I have no experience in modding any games but would be more than happy to test this mod out for problems during development.

[Miihkali]

There was once great Finnish ahistorical site called Valtakunta - Kokonaisvaltainen Ratkaisu, but sadly the site has now been for weeks down.

[Samilou]

what? fatherland is good enough, just needs the exents to tie the world togather, because it gives me the feeling that the different evets have effects just in that part of the world

I agree, I would support only a perfected Fatherland mod that would not do any major changes to the look of the map in Europe and the storyline.

[nomonhan]

Thanks for your input everyone. There is a download link in the OTHER Fatherland thread if you want to see what has been done to date. Yes my goal is a perfected series of EVENTS ONLY,plus required scenario files which are already done, together with just enough modding of the states to work. Also the team came up with descriptions which can simply be things like GER_48_DESC. But descriptions can only be used for nations that actually exist at the scenario start, and are in the top list with the flags, not for ones that are added later. When the original Fatherland was developed, people naturally added ministers and such to extend the timeline. For example I added a bunch of USA ministers. Well, right in the middle of all that Armageddon came out. So I'd revert to the Armageddon setup for things like USA ministers. The only thing you'd really have to do for the story line is add Joseph P. Kennedy as head of State in 1960. Otherwise the USA ministers can be pretty much as is.

Want to develop and test this first for Armageddon. Would consider a doomsday port later but that adds the need to graft on the Armageddon tech tree, and a possible source for error.

As for events the original team wrote a pretty good series but there is something lacking in the Arab Middle East area. Initial testing will be based on the events unmodified from where the original team left off.--Unmodified unless I discover bugs. For example, many events are written in the form of

Event 1--you invest a certain amount of money, resources, manpower or whatever into X
Event 2--Y days later (Y=75, 300 or whatever) you receive the benefits of your investment.
This all sounds fine in theory BUT--guess what happens if you save the game immediately after making the investment, and exit and reload? Yep--you guessed it--you get the benefit in 24 hours! That is one HUGE exploit!
The vanilla game had this problem with Lend Lease, until they fixed this by having the event checked more often but with a low probability of happening each time. The result is more randomness in how often the event happens. So I will rewrite ALL such events to resemble the Lend Lease events in vanilla. Otherwise initial testing will be based on what has been written so far. If you want to see how events are written, CCIP is not only a great mod but a great tutorial as to what can be done with events.

The goal is a "mod" that can coexist with the rest of what you have and be a selectable 48 scenario from the menu.

[nigo]

I support this idea

[Stefke]

well in any case i think the following stuff should be added

planeterian war
coup in france(de gaulle on power and a most likely WWIII i think its the best idea for it)
civil war in germany
olympic events totaly stupid and broken as well
the rise of the USSR
etc...

[nomonhan]

well in any case i think the following stuff should be added

planeterian war
coup in france(de gaulle on power and a most likely WWIII i think its the best idea for it)
civil war in germany
olympic events totaly stupid and broken as well
the rise of the USSR
etc...

Do you mean Platinean War?

Coup in France --will consider especially if you help out with same

Civil war In Germany-no because it does not fit the Fatherland story line. There is likely to be a power struggle within the NSDAP though for #2 spot.

Olympic events were not my idea but if they are broken as well then consider your idea (of removing them) done.

Rise of the USSR. The game does seriously explore the USSR's attempt to recover from their defeat, largely through diplomacy, though and the India relationship.

For now, the main point is to come up with a crash-free playable version and then refine it later.

I note you are from Serbia. I have a project for you if you will volunteer--take a look at the Serbia files, both from the mod and from the vanilla and make a recommendation for fixing them. If you want I'll make you my Balkans adviser. Do you think there's any chance that Macedonia might become a free nation in the scenario and time period? If so I'll add them and already have a good set of files for them.

[Kill3456]

I think this mod should use the storyline of the AAR NSDAP: Prisoners of Silence for its events, such as Hitler dieing, other people taking charge, etc etc, it'll add more flavour to the mod.

[nomonhan]

Kill3456:
Though certainly interesting, your idea would require a complete rewrite from scratch, rather than using existing work and completing it, so no. Why not start your own mod?
In this mod I will endeavor to be at least somewhat faithful to the Fatherland story line which is:
1) German success in Barbarossa, after which USSR becomes isolationist.
2) Germany finds out about Allied code-breaking and creates new codes in 1943, enabling U-boat war to succeed. The UK is forced out of the war.
3) Germany makes its own bomb in 46 and does a test attack on NY city with no real bomb but just to show that they "can" nuke NYC. USA agrees to peace treaty.
4) US wins war against Japan in 1946. USA cuts a deal with Pu Yi to get him to turn against Japan and save US casualties. (addition to Fatherland to make Asia interesting. the book does not discuss China at all) This sets up likely Chinese Civil war but Pu Yi vs Chiang and no Mao.
In Fatherland, Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. lives because he did not participate in Operation Aphrodite where he was killed in real life. He is elected President in 1960 and prepares for a summit meeting with the aging Hitler. Although I agree Hitler in reality would have died some time in the 1950s due to Parkinson's disease, he is alive and well in the Fatherland book, presumably from not having to lead such a stressful life.

[Stefke]

Do you mean Platinean War?

Coup in France --will consider especially if you help out with same

Civil war In Germany-no because it does not fit the Fatherland story line. There is likely to be a power struggle within the NSDAP though for #2 spot.

Olympic events were not my idea but if they are broken as well then consider your idea (of removing them) done.

Rise of the USSR. The game does seriously explore the USSR's attempt to recover from their defeat, largely through diplomacy, though and the India relationship.

For now, the main point is to come up with a crash-free playable version and then refine it later.

I note you are from Serbia. I have a project for you if you will volunteer--take a look at the Serbia files, both from the mod and from the vanilla and make a recommendation for fixing them. If you want I'll make you my Balkans adviser. Do you think there's any chance that Macedonia might become a free nation in the scenario and time period? If so I'll add them and already have a good set of files for them.

a coup in france could be a good idea it would be tangled up but yea i think i can make something like that
planetian war yes, i keep getting it wrong
the olympic events get screwed up i think in 1952 or 1956 because an event of the host city keeps popping up. its also very useless
the USSR certainly has to come back supported by india and US
yes i would like to contribute for the balkans. i think serbia is done pretty nicely but we can always improve. i can also make a bunch of events for the balkans regarding the partisan conflict, i will have to think about it
i dont think macedonia would have any chance of becoming a free nation. the macedonians never really had a sense of national identity thats why bulgaria, serbia and greece fought over it. i think bulgarians should have it since it was an axis power

[Stefke]

one more thing about germany
hitler has to die in the first half of the 50's since he was a man in poor health since he was so occupying himself. i think before that a player should get some events like-hitler collapses on a rally or hitler loses his voice on the rally(since he must have had some problems with his voice a normal person cant always yell like that). then when he dies the player can choose a successor

[danielshannon]

Will this require the new revolters mod or will it be a stand alone mod?

I hope you do make some fun events for a possible death of Der Furher and a subsequent power struggle. I know that doesn't really fit in with the events of the novel but it'd be fun for a mod about a victorious Germany.

[nomonhan]

It will use a few New revolters countries for certain states to be added just because the necessary ministers and leaders are already there but will not require the whole mod. So it will be stand alone but compatible with either vanilla or New revolters. It WILL however conflict with New Nations because New Nations uses all available tags and I need a few of them free for nations not in the New Nations list. For example it will use Qatar, Turkestan, Empire of China and UAE (Dubai) which are in New revolters but not New Nations. All of the countries mentioned are in the original Fatherland design.
New Nations conflicts with MANY mods and not just mine.

Yours is the second request for death of the Fuhrer and perhaps that can be a random event happening sometimes. There's a mod out there that sets this in 1951 but I think having it occur on the exact date of Stalin's death in real life would add a nice touch. In this timeline Stalin committed suicide after bitter peace. Whatever I decide about Fuhrer death is going to upset somebody. Expect something unusual as an answer.

I've kept the files for olympic games but it will not be in the initial release as it seems to be problematic.

Hitler's health events might be useful, as they would add realism without violating any Fatherland premises. Borman of course would more and more turn into the real power but Speer and others might challenge him.
Stefke--would like the Serbian ministers file to start with the vanilla people and then add the new leaders at the end. The point is that I'd like number compatibility with Paradox so that if they come out with death events or something in the future they are not all screwed up. This would mean the Serbian events need re-writing to get the right numbers in the events. And of course you are free to add events of your choosing. And why is Josip Broz in the Serbia file? I thought he was Croat. Thanks for offering to help out. You can post files in this thread.

[Stefke]

Well Borman was Hitler's man for everything, a simple man obeying without questioning. I think definetly with Hitler's health weakening to the point where it could be noticeble would be a huge problem for Germany as Hitler always wanted to look at his best, he had to be a healthy fuhrer, but in truth he had stomach problems(which actually forced him to use all sorts of cure, even swallowing pills containing healthy bacteria from the poop of another peasent, so grose and it actually worked, but whether it really helped or if it was a placebo effect i have no idea). He also had a tremor because of the Parkisons disease so i think that should also be included in the scenario. His voice also suffered because of so much yelling
As for Serbia ministers yes it would be a good idea to start them off with vanilla but the problem is i dont have the idea who would the successors be. it would also be tricky to say when the death events should occur since most of them were executed by Tito's partisans after the war. But we shall see it would definetly be tricky
As for Serbia events i think that even if Hitler won the war i think there would still be partisans and chetniks on the loose but since both would be without support it would be more of a desperate situation so maybe i could come up with some assasinations. but i would have to think about it. Josip Broz is a Croat but the core of his Partisans was located in Serbia and so thats why he is the Stalinist head of state in Serbia

I also have a few suggestions for the world map and events

The British crisis should happen before 1950
The French coup should only happen if Franco is not in an alliance with Germany and there is democracy in Britain(though the 2nd should be optional)
What would even be a better idea is a colonial war betwen the French state and Free France before that since Free France just sits there
I think Norway should be a part of Germany and Denmark should be given a puppet status.
I also think there should be a set of events for the reorganization of the Ost. I am thinking of events for Ukraine independence, for the Baltic state and for the creation of the Reichskommisart Moskau(Germany's part of Russia) whose head of state would be von Mannstein. Reichskommisart would be a puppet nation with its own military to help quell the rebelion but without much success.
As for the Soviet Union i think it should start cooperating with the Americans so that the Americans could give them assistance. For example the Americans could help them annex Primorsk by putting on Diplomatic pressure so that they can use the Vladivostok harbour to bring in aid to the SU. Russia would also probably ask for help for Germany but the German AI would probably refuse it. When the SU becomes more powerfull it invades Russia and stirrs up the Ost. Germany could try then some diplomacy to prevent the war but it would most likely fail. The SU would eventually invade the Reichskommisart which would break up since there would be a load of partisan activity. Then a new Barbossa could begin! Or there could be attempts to hold on to the Reichskommisart
As for the Chinese conflict i think we should involve major powers it in. Republicans should be given Germany's help and the Nationalist's US help
I also think Musolini should be assasinated in Cairo sparking up a war in Africa
ill write if i can think of some more events

[ROMANU]

hitler's death is most important


I have a proposition, romanian calms over transilvania...
this could be similar to croatian-serbian war


also, there's a map project going on (E3 mod) maybe it will be done soon and you could use it

[Stefke]

hitler's death is most important


I have a proposition, romanian calms over transilvania...
this could be similar to croatian-serbian war


also, there's a map project going on (E3 mod) maybe it will be done soon and you could use it

yes this is also a good idea