Bizarre Battles, Silly Sieges

gagenater said:

This is more than likely the case (an army of 50 - 60,000) However add in camp followers, civilian victualers, slaves and captives, animals and handlers, etc. and you can easily double this number. Any way you look at it even if 50 - 60,000 is the total number including all these other people it's still a heck of a big army for the era.

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Sure it is, but only a fraction stayed in the trenches, the rest was in the surrounding countryside. Murphy, using the better documented siege of Baghdad in 1638 thinks that adding gunners, diggers for the trenches and servants in general the numbers in the besieging force could reach 20.000.
Now, however considering numbers we have two different problems, one is the military aspect, there we compare the size of the opposing armies (or armies in different periods, for instance) and here our first priority should be compare numbers of similar reliability. Unfortunately, given the peculiar structure of the Ottoman army, we have only paper strength figures of the Ottoman standing army in direct pay of the Sultan.
Now, considering the actual number of people involved in a force, including camp followers, is relevant for studying the development of supply systems. In that case we should detract from the 50.000-60.000 paper strength of the army a considerable number for deserters, sick, stragglers, detached garrisons, raiding parties, forage parties...In all I would be surprised if the Ottoman army (or their Christian opponents) could actually muster 30.000 men in the battlefield.

I am currently reading Frederick the Greats Posthumous Works, and in his Account of my times which deals with the wars in 1740-1745 he mentions that during the battle of Soor 30 September 1745 the prince Ferdinand of Braunschweig (or Brunswick, who fought with the Prussians) led an assualt on a steep hill that was defended by his own brother prince Ludwig of Braunschweig (who fought with the Austrians). Ferdinand managed to capture the hill and drive the enemy from it. Frederick doesnt mention the fate of Ludwig (he only mentions that Ferdinand "excelled" during the assault) but the wikiarticle on Ludwig mentions that he was "seriously wounded" at the battle of Soor.

Not so much bizarre, perhaps more of a curiosity, but still I thought it would be fitting for this thread when I read it.

Swamp Rat said:

I am currently reading Frederick the Greats Posthumous Works, and in his Account of my times which deals with the wars in 1740-1745 he mentions that during the battle of Soor 30 September 1745 the prince Ferdinand of Braunschweig (or Brunswick, who fought with the Prussians) led an assualt on a steep hill that was defended by his own brother prince Ludwig of Braunschweig (who fought with the Austrians). Ferdinand managed to capture the hill and drive the enemy from it. Frederick doesnt mention the fate of Ludwig (he only mentions that Ferdinand "excelled" during the assault) but the wikiarticle on Ludwig mentions that he was "seriously wounded" at the battle of Soor.

Not so much bizarre, perhaps more of a curiosity, but still I thought it would be fitting for this thread when I read it.

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I believe the third brother also fought for the prussians in the same battle but on the other wing. Could also be for the austrians against the prussians.

Gil galad said:

I believe the third brother also fought for the prussians in the same battle but on the other wing. Could also be for the austrians against the prussians.

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Yes that is correct, I found that out a couple of pages later in Fredericks account (after I had posted the above). Albert of Braunschweig fought for the Prussians and was actually killed in the battle. So it is indeed a bizarre battle at least for the house of Braunschweig-Bevern.

Antigonos Gonatas was king of Makedonia in the middle 3rd century BC and also effectivly the ruler of Greece proper. Central to his mastery of Greece was the control of Korinthos and the impregnable fortress of Akrokorinthos.

Korinthos was for many years held by Antigonos' trusted half brother Krateros. When Krateros died he was suceeded by his son Alexandros. This Alexandros soon started to call himself king, have diplomatic contact with Ptolemaios in Egypt, in short setting himself up as an independent ruler.

Seemingly in an attempt to reconcile wit him, Antigonos his daughter in marriage to Alexandros. Alexandros accepted and there was of course a huge wedding party in Korinthos which Antigonos attended. During the middle of night Antigonos walked up to the Akrokorinthos with a few picked and knocked on the door. The unsuspecting guards let him in...

Having installed his own men Antigonos went back and rejoined the party. Next day the marriage was canceled.

jeffg006 said:

During the Spanish-Dutch wars of the 16th-17th centuries, a group of Dutchmen seized... Castle Ammersoyen(That one?) by dressing up as Dominican monks and being let inside. Drawing their hidden weapons, they overwhelmed the small garrison and raised their standards over the won fort

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That's how Monaco was taken by the Grimaldi.

They're kinda proud of it too.

Abdul Goatherd said:

That's how Monaco was taken by the Grimaldi.

They're kinda proud of it too.

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Oh very cool