+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 47

Thread: Bizarre Battles, Silly Sieges

  1. #1
    Lt. General Wari Bana's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Antwerpen, EU
    Posts
    1,638

    Bizarre Battles, Silly Sieges

    Do you know of any ingeniously won sieges or battles?
    Battles, sieges and even wars that were won by an unexpected move, dumb luck,...

    I just read a post where someone said something about Pereira taking a Castillian castle with cows (anyone knows more about this?) , that's the kind of thing i would be looking for here.
    Last edited by Wari Bana; 05-06-2008 at 06:45.
    Thy shalt not puttet Cheese on Every Thing Thy puttet in Thyne Microwave.
    Tonga - The Quest for Civilization

    Paradox Nocturama

    icq: 350 214 224

  2. #2
    Armchair General w/ cupholder jeffg006's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the celestial kingdom
    Posts
    564
    During the Spanish-Dutch wars of the 16th-17th centuries, a group of Dutchmen seized... Castle Ammersoyen(That one?) by dressing up as Dominican monks and being let inside. Drawing their hidden weapons, they overwhelmed the small garrison and raised their standards over the won fort
    "As for the Republicans—how can one regard seriously a frightened, greedy, nostalgic huddle of tradesmen and lucky idlers who shut their eyes to history and science, steel their emotions against decent human sympathy, cling to sordid and provincial ideals exalting sheer acquisitiveness and condoning artificial hardship for the non-materially-shrewd, dwell smugly and sentimentally in a distorted dream-cosmos of outmoded phrases and principles and attitudes based on the bygone agricultural-handicraft world, and revel in mendacious assumptions - such as the notion that real liberty is synonymous with the single detail of unrestricted economic license or that a rational planning of resource-distribution would contravene some vague and mystical ‘American heritage’…- utterly contrary to fact and without the slightest foundation in human experience? Intellectually, the Republican idea deserves the tolerance and respect one gives to the dead." - H.P. Lovecraft, 1936

  3. #3
    Lt. General Wari Bana's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Antwerpen, EU
    Posts
    1,638
    That's very much like robbing a bank with a banana.
    Thy shalt not puttet Cheese on Every Thing Thy puttet in Thyne Microwave.
    Tonga - The Quest for Civilization

    Paradox Nocturama

    icq: 350 214 224

  4. #4
    Ezredes Victor1234's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Valahol
    Posts
    1,190
    Well, if Tolstoy is to be believed, the French Marshals Ney and Oudinot (?) prevented bridges over the Danube from being blown up by the Austrians by going forward alone and making the Austrians believe a peace had been signed already, while their troops crept up, overwhelmed the Austrians guarding it and took the bridges.

    Then of course, there's the Trojan horse story....

    Then in the War of 1812, the surrender of Fort Detroit is interesting. General Brock had some native allies with his extremely outnumbered and ill-supplied force, who kept repeatedly jumping in and out of bushes or something like that to make it appear as though there were more of them. The American garrison commander got nervous (both by this 'large' force of natives and their reputation for scalping people...) and so he surrendered the fort on condition that the natives be reigned in. Brock agreed, and captured a huge force, alot of supplies and armaments, all with a ruse.

  5. #5
    Lt. General Wari Bana's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Antwerpen, EU
    Posts
    1,638
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor1234
    ...

    Then of course, there's the Trojan horse story....
    which sadly falls outside the 1419-1819 time period
    Thy shalt not puttet Cheese on Every Thing Thy puttet in Thyne Microwave.
    Tonga - The Quest for Civilization

    Paradox Nocturama

    icq: 350 214 224

  6. #6
    Ezredes Victor1234's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Valahol
    Posts
    1,190
    Quote Originally Posted by Wari Bana
    which sadly falls outside the 1419-1819 time period
    Sadly, but I edited in another example to make up for it.

  7. #7
    Field Marshal Avernite's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIEU3 CompleteDivine WindHeir to the ThroneVictoria 2
    Victoria II: A House DividedVictoria II: Heart of Darkness500k clubEuropa Universalis IV

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Enschede, the Netherlands
    Posts
    5,191
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffg006
    During the Spanish-Dutch wars of the 16th-17th centuries, a group of Dutchmen seized... Castle Ammersoyen(That one?) by dressing up as Dominican monks and being let inside. Drawing their hidden weapons, they overwhelmed the small garrison and raised their standards over the won fort
    The Dutch also seized Breda (IIRC) by hiding soldiers in the ship bringing peat to the fortress, and when the ship was let through the gates, they jumped out and overwhelmed the garrison.
    ICQ #331727773
    canonized on 11/08/2007

    Overall Best WW player is Avernite with 7 wins overall (Dec 2006-sometime 2007)

    jonti-h:No-one's perfect
    General Jac: Except Avernite , that's why I kill him every game

    Jopi: I'll vote Avernite. He's a hard player to read, and therefore always dangerous.
    Avernite: Avernite is a very mean person because he always comes up with great ideas

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Finnish Dragon's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3Divine WindFor The Glory
    Hearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: Revolutions
    Europa Universalis: RomeSengokuVictoria 2Rome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: Warband
    Mount & Blade: With Fire and SwordEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Turku or Hattula, Finland
    Posts
    2,519
    If we are talking about bizarre battles then we should mention Battle of Karánsebes in September 17, 1788. Losing more than 10.000 men as dead or wounded by friendly fire is bizarre in my books.

  9. #9
    Colonel Aryaman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ushi-Darena
    Posts
    1,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Avernite
    The Dutch also seized Breda (IIRC) by hiding soldiers in the ship bringing peat to the fortress, and when the ship was let through the gates, they jumped out and overwhelmed the garrison.
    That war is full of curious examples
    For instance Verdugo took Steenwijk scaling the walls, the day before a woman, a Spy in spanish pay, had her hat taken by the wind to the pond circunding the town walls, when she went for it she wasn fact recognizing the depththe pond, and as it was only knee deep the following night Verdugo ordered the general assault.
    In 1597 the Spaniards took Amiens with an elaborate trick, Some soldiers disguised as peasants driving a wagon enter the city, but they faked an accident, the wagon losing a wheel just when it was crossing the gates, so that they could not be closed quickly, meanwhile 500 soldiers ambushed the night before in a nearby old church run to the gates, taking the city by storm.

  10. #10
    Ezredes Victor1234's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Valahol
    Posts
    1,190
    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon
    If we are talking about bizarre battles then we should mention Battle of Karánsebes in September 17, 1788. Losing more than 10.000 men as dead or wounded by friendly fire is bizarre in my books.
    Sounds made up, to be honest.

    -The only translation is in the Spanish wiki
    -The German wiki article on Joseph II and the Austro-Turkish war doesn't even mention it
    -There were no Romanian infantry regiments in the Austrian army (granted, I only looked at the Austrian army during the Napoleonic Wars, but close enough), which means there'd only be few Romanians here and there and not enough to put a whole army to flight by shouting 'The Turks'.
    -The hussar regiments were all composed mostly of Hungarians (as is the name of the town), although there is no reference to the battle on the Hungarian wiki and no reference to Hungarians in the English article itself.
    -It sounds idiotic to begin with and the inclusion of gypsies selling schnapps to travelling soldiers only further heightens this pretension. No self-respecting Hungarian hussar would drink anything but red wine or palinka.

    Edit: Also, the inclusion of idiotic parts like that it was gypsies selling alcohol, Austrians shooting at shadows in the night with artillery, the soldiers who could not understand each other mistaking Halt for Allah, the drunken party and all, makes it sound like it was written by someone with no knowledge of the area in general or the Austrian army in particular, who wanted to make it seem like he knew what he was talking about by throwing in the words: gypsies, Slavs, minorities, etc.

  11. #11
    Lt. General Wari Bana's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Antwerpen, EU
    Posts
    1,638
    Is there any way to know for sure? (if it was made up?)
    Last edited by Wari Bana; 05-06-2008 at 19:46.
    Thy shalt not puttet Cheese on Every Thing Thy puttet in Thyne Microwave.
    Tonga - The Quest for Civilization

    Paradox Nocturama

    icq: 350 214 224

  12. #12
    Colonel Aryaman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ushi-Darena
    Posts
    1,069
    This is the description given by Joseph II himself in a letter (from M.Z.Mayer monography on the campaign)

    "Everythďng was proceeding in the greatest order and we would have arrived
    in Caransebes without the enemy's knowledge for it was night All of a
    sudden a group of Wallachians.. became alarmed and fired their rifles
    which threw a unit of hussars and dragoons into confusion .... They
    answered this fire before finally attacking the infantry.... The column in
    which I found myself was completely dispersed. Cannons, wagons and all
    the tents were turned over, it was horrible; [my] soldiers shooting at each
    other! Eventually calm was restored, and we were luckyethat the Turks
    were not on our trail otherwise the whole army would have been
    destroyed. Nevertheless, we lost not only the pots and tents with
    considerable damage to other baggage but also three pieces of artillery."

    The loss of 3 pieces is a long way from losing 10.000 men, that is traced back to P. Bernard article on Joseph II, but as he doesn´t mention sources it is probably made up.

  13. #13
    Rule Britannia Gigalocus's Avatar
    Arsenal of DemocracyHearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonDarkest HourDiplomacyEuropa Universalis 3
    Divine WindHearts of Iron III CollectionHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In Nomine
    Iron CrossEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: RevolutionsEuropa Universalis: RomeVictoria 2
    Rome: Vae Victis500k club

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, Britannia
    Posts
    3,409
    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon
    If we are talking about bizarre battles then we should mention Battle of Karánsebes in September 17, 1788. Losing more than 10.000 men as dead or wounded by friendly fire is bizarre in my books.
    I was wandering how long it would take for this one to come up. Everyone here loves it

  14. #14
    Wasnt the siege of Carcassonne solved by the defenders in firing a pig over the walls? or is this a myth ?
    You ask for steak, I bring you fish. You say that you think steak is better than fish. I say that fish is much more popular than steak so obviously it's better. You say that no matter how good the fish is it can't be better at being steak than the actual steak we used to serve. I say that's just your perception and you're entitled to it but you should accept that fish is the future and that's good. You begin to say something but I stab you in the eye with a fork and run into the kitchen.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Graf Zeppelin
    Wasnt the siege of Carcassonne solved by the defenders in firing a pig over the walls? or is this a myth ?
    A pig stuffed with grain, so when it... burst... the besieging Frankish army would think the besieged Moors inside had plenty of food left, and so lifted the siege.

    Of course it's a myth!

    Linky to one of the many Carcassonne touristy sites carrying the story; scroll down to the section about where the name comes from (mythical Saracen female ruler called "Dame Carcas"):
    http://www.francemonthly.com/n/0401/index.php

  16. #16
    Field Marshal Finnish Dragon's Avatar
    Crusader Kings IIDeus VultEuropa Universalis 3Divine WindFor The Glory
    Hearts of Iron IIIHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In NomineEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: Revolutions
    Europa Universalis: RomeSengokuVictoria 2Rome: Vae VictisMount & Blade: Warband
    Mount & Blade: With Fire and SwordEuropa Universalis IV: Pre-order

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Turku or Hattula, Finland
    Posts
    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigalocus
    I was wandering how long it would take for this one to come up. Everyone here loves it
    Yeah. I really wondered what happened. It seems to be that articles on Caransebes in Wikipedia offer more information about that battle than just articles about the battle of Caransebes. English, French, Hungarian and Italian wiki webpages on city of Karansebes mention the date of that battle shortly if I translated them correctly. I am certain that something happened there in that date, September 17, 1788.

  17. #17
    Ezredes Victor1234's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Valahol
    Posts
    1,190
    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon
    Yeah. I really wondered what happened. It seems to be that articles on Caransebes in Wikipedia offer more information about that battle than just articles about the battle of Caransebes. English, French, Hungarian and Italian wiki webpages on city of Karansebes mention the date of that battle shortly if I translated them correctly. I am certain that something happened there in that date, September 17, 1788.
    Not really. The English article says "during the wars" and "in 1788". Not exactly specific on either account. The Hungarian article also seems to have been copied directly from the English (especially as on the Hungarian pages for Joseph II and the Austro-Turkish war, there's no reference, as well as no specific article for this battle).

    Here's what the reference is on the Hungarian wiki that you mentioned:

    1788-ban itt zajlott le a karánsebesi csata a császári hadak különböző alakulatai között, amelyek egymást török csapatoknak hitték. Ezután a törökök akadálytalanul törtek be a városba és felégették.

    "In 1788, the battle of Karánsebes took place here, between the various elements of the Imperial army, which believed each other to be the Turkish army. After this, the Turks broke into the town and burned it without any opposition."

    No mention of the actual battle, the losses, the exact date or anything.
    Plus, the Hungarian wiki has a nasty habit of borrowing material, references and all from the English wiki, just translating it.

    The German article just mentions how it was part of the Austrian military frontier with no reference to the battle.

    The French article mentions the battle as the only bit of history associated with the town. A copying job is most likely the case if that's the only bit of history they have for it.

    Personally, I think if the battle did happen (which is dubious in the first place), it certainly wasn't 10,000 dead and wounded.

  18. #18
    Human Rights Advisor of Atilla w_mullender's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Utrecht, Holland
    Posts
    2,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Aryaman
    That war is full of curious examples
    For instance Verdugo took Steenwijk scaling the walls, the day before a woman, a Spy in spanish pay, had her hat taken by the wind to the pond circunding the town walls, when she went for it she wasn fact recognizing the depththe pond, and as it was only knee deep the following night Verdugo ordered the general assault.
    In 1597 the Spaniards took Amiens with an elaborate trick, Some soldiers disguised as peasants driving a wagon enter the city, but they faked an accident, the wagon losing a wheel just when it was crossing the gates, so that they could not be closed quickly, meanwhile 500 soldiers ambushed the night before in a nearby old church run to the gates, taking the city by storm.
    You also have the "machine from hell" at the siege of Antwerpen, which almost killed the entire Spanish officer corps with a huge explosion, the "siege by mill" of Den Bosch and various tricks by Maurice of Nassau (the peat ship being the best known).
    I never make errors, because I have have an immense difficulty to make mistakes.

  19. #19
    Colonel Aryaman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ushi-Darena
    Posts
    1,069
    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Dragon
    Yeah. I really wondered what happened. It seems to be that articles on Caransebes in Wikipedia offer more information about that battle than just articles about the battle of Caransebes. English, French, Hungarian and Italian wiki webpages on city of Karansebes mention the date of that battle shortly if I translated them correctly. I am certain that something happened there in that date, September 17, 1788.
    Did you read my previous post $12? I think that it is pretty clear from that what was that "battle"

  20. #20
    Rule Britannia Gigalocus's Avatar
    Arsenal of DemocracyHearts of Iron 2: ArmageddonDarkest HourDiplomacyEuropa Universalis 3
    Divine WindHearts of Iron III CollectionHOI3: Their Finest HourHeir to the ThroneEuropa Universalis III: In Nomine
    Iron CrossEU3 Napoleon's AmbitionVictoria: RevolutionsEuropa Universalis: RomeVictoria 2
    Rome: Vae Victis500k club

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bristol, Britannia
    Posts
    3,409
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor1234
    Not really. The English article says "during the wars" and "in 1788". Not exactly specific on either account. The Hungarian article also seems to have been copied directly from the English (especially as on the Hungarian pages for Joseph II and the Austro-Turkish war, there's no reference, as well as no specific article for this battle).

    Here's what the reference is on the Hungarian wiki that you mentioned:

    1788-ban itt zajlott le a karánsebesi csata a császári hadak különböző alakulatai között, amelyek egymást török csapatoknak hitték. Ezután a törökök akadálytalanul törtek be a városba és felégették.

    "In 1788, the battle of Karánsebes took place here, between the various elements of the Imperial army, which believed each other to be the Turkish army. After this, the Turks broke into the town and burned it without any opposition."

    No mention of the actual battle, the losses, the exact date or anything.
    Plus, the Hungarian wiki has a nasty habit of borrowing material, references and all from the English wiki, just translating it.

    The German article just mentions how it was part of the Austrian military frontier with no reference to the battle.

    The French article mentions the battle as the only bit of history associated with the town. A copying job is most likely the case if that's the only bit of history they have for it.

    Personally, I think if the battle did happen (which is dubious in the first place), it certainly wasn't 10,000 dead and wounded.
    When I first read the story, I didn't believe it, looking around on google, I found several websites confirming the details ...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts