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Winner said:
No, really?! Who would have guessed... :D

Not all his work, mind you, just the more... recent stuff. :D

This is why I thank the lord for Steven Spielberg every time I watch Indie 4.
 
trekaddict said:
Not all his work, mind you, just the more... recent stuff. :D

This is why I thank the lord for Steven Spielberg every time I watch Indie 4.

Well, I never liked Star Wars. No, that's not accurate - I don't mind it, I even saw the first (ok, last) three movies. It's enjoyable once you realize it is a pure fantasy and it must be taken as such.

OTOH I hate when people call it science-fiction. As a fan of the real sci-fi, I think the Star Wars have done a huge damage to the credibility of this genre ;)

(jeez, that's probably the most off-topic post I've ever written on this forum :D )
 
Winner said:
Well, I never liked Star Wars. No, that's not accurate - I don't mind it, I even saw the first (ok, last) three movies. It's enjoyable once you realize it is a pure fantasy and it must be taken as such.

OTOH I hate when people call it science-fiction. As a fan of the real sci-fi, I think the Star Wars have done a huge damage to the credibility of this genre ;)

(jeez, that's probably the most off-topic post I've ever written on this forum :D )


Not at all, dear Sir, as I happen to fully agree with you. The three original Star Wars movies are quite fun, especially Admiral 'It's a trap!' Ackbar. :D
 
trekaddict said:
Not all his work, mind you, just the more... recent stuff. :D
Because you feel that he let us all down by not making Jar-Jar Binks the star of the series? :p
Regarding the Empire shtick: had I been a non-English member of your empire, my problem hadn't been related to my eventual knowledge of George Lucas (who's been mentioned often enough, thank you. He didn't coin the term.), but to how Victoria managed to become Empress of India without even visiting the place and to colonisation as whole, with all its quirky side-effects such as slavery and the odd genocide or two.
And if I was an Indian, I'd probably not be enamoured to the fact that my vote counted for less than that of an Englishman. Either that or laughing at how the Brits failed to combine their creative interpretation of representative democracy with the safeguarding of their dominant role in the Empire.
 
Eams said:
Because you feel that he let us all down by not making Jar-Jar Binks the star of the series? :p
Regarding the Empire shtick: had I been a non-English member of your empire, my problem hadn't been related to my eventual knowledge of George Lucas (who's been mentioned often enough, thank you. He didn't coin the term.), but to how Victoria managed to become Empress of India without even visiting the place and to colonisation as whole, with all its quirky side-effects such as slavery and the odd genocide or two.
And if I was an Indian, I'd probably not be enamoured to the fact that my vote counted for less than that of an Englishman. Either that or laughing at how the Brits failed to combine their creative interpretation of representative democracy with the safeguarding of their dominant role in the Empire.

True, but as I said, it is not a perfect system I am creating here, and will be reformed in the Future. As for what happened in the past: I think that this is something similar to what happened in the American west and is something for future generations to add up. If it consoles you, the future monarchs of the Empire will have to have a seperate coronation ceremony in India before they can call themselves Emporer/Empress of India.

EDIT: As a German I am very familliar with working up an unpleasant past, and belive me, it isn't as easy as it sounds. It will be their great philosophical, cultural and ethics discussion in the late 60s to early 1980s. In that time we had the Student revolts as you well know.

Edit 2:

This isnt the best article, but it gives you a general Idea of what I had in mind. Less commie-oriented of course.
 
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trekaddict said:
It wont for multiple reasons.
Firstly: THere will be no decolonization as we define the term in OTL within the Empire,

No decolonization ? Pretty hard to imagine, particularly if other colonies do break free of their Metropolitan power. At some point no amount of advantages, subsidies or even threats would overcome colonials' cries for independence, if OTL is any judge.
 
Atlantic Friend said:
No decolonization ? Pretty hard to imagine, particularly if other colonies do break free of their Metropolitan power. At some point no amount of advantages, subsidies or even threats would overcome colonials' cries for independence, if OTL is any judge.

But bear in mind this isn't OTL. There will be a certain ammount of decolonization, yes, but nowhere near the scale of OTL. The Butterfly effect will have been in effect for far too long at that point. And as I said, the decolonization of the other Empires will be the first big test for the territorial and political identity and integrity of the British Empire. And as this is AH and the motto of AH is "Anything goes!" I say that the Empire will remain intact.

Edit: Please don't take this personal, but my idea behind this is not what would have happened, but rather what could have happened, and as the author I have decided that the Brits ( i.e. the Empire ) will come through this relatively unscaved. For example the South Africans will leave the Empire at some point, and during the 60s and 70s some of the Dominions will have minor problems with small guerillia groups. Again, this is not supposed to be a uthopia but rather a semi-realistic "What if the British Empire survived into our time" story. :)
 
Atlantic Friend said:
No decolonization ? Pretty hard to imagine, particularly if other colonies do break free of their Metropolitan power. At some point no amount of advantages, subsidies or even threats would overcome colonials' cries for independence, if OTL is any judge.

Well yes, and no. On the one hand nationalism, particularly the often violent kind brought about by being subjected to colonialism is an incredibly strong force and one that brought about the end of many Empires over the years, sometimes that nationalism is so strong that it ignores everything else purely in the hope of freedom and self-government; "to be beholden to no nation and no people but our own." However most of the time this kind of nationalism has a catalyst that pushes it forward, most often it was the prejudice and ignorance of the indigenous cultures of Empire, or the feeling of economic exploitation for no real economic benefit to the people of the colony in question. In India for example it was a combination of these which brought nationalism and the wish for independence to the fore, but not before the Indian National Congress had tried to go down the path of self-government whilst remaining part of the Empire (albeit with a better representation, something more akin to a dominion), it's why they to a degree supported the Empire quite happily in WW1. However after that war and with little or no hope in sight of Britain allowing Indians real self-government and democracy they turned more wholly towards full Independence, and the more Britain resisted it the more Indians wanted it.

Now to keep the Empire together you would need to do several things, representation on some level being the first. The second and most important part is to try and make it so that any one "citizen of the Empire" has the civic rights and responsibilities of any other, and most importantly are treated thus. So an Indian is treated in the same manner as an Nigerian and they both are treated the same as a Scot. And finally they have to see some very real economic good to the Empire being there, that means jobs, schools, hospitals and a decent rate of economic growth and prosperity. And even then you'll have issues with Nationalist parties inside the various states, and you shouldn't legally be able to stop any part of the Empire seceding if they go about it in a democratic manner.

The real problem is the economics of it all, it would be all but impossible for the British Empire to go from an Imperial economy whereby for the most part the profits and rewards of having a vast Empire are concentrated largely into Britain itself, to one where the profit is spread out across the entire Empire with Britain actually getting a smaller share to allow the other places to play catchup economically. For a start you'd need to make a major industrialisation drive in the colonies, as well as an expansion in pretty much every amenity. The cost would be astronomical to say the least. So unless they find gold, platinum and diamond deposits under Yorkshire I can imagine things being too close to call. ;)
 
BwenGun said:
*kind and intelligent words*


That, my dear Sir, is why the industrialization is a large effort driven by what will essentially be a war economy. I do know that in reality saving the Empire at this point would have been far too late. I am that much of a realist. I do however take the game as the base for this AAR, i.e. the decicions made by the characters in it are based on what the game gives me. If I ever decide to play a certain time after the war ends, more than a few months that is, then you would see me building factories all over my posessions. I also know that in reality the British Economy could have never supported the unrelistically high number of Divisons I will have soon, but then again, for the Character in the AAR the economical situation in the game is reality, and I am basing my storywriting on that, not on real figures. For example my money stockpile rises by almost 20 a day and I am at about 1023 atm. I am using that as the base for my story telling, as if that had happened in RL the BRitish would simply be the richest nation on earth with a huge money surplus, something that happened to the US in RL after WW2. I checked the other majors and in fact my money stockpile is the largest in the world. Also in RL the British could never support the 15 Illustrious Class CVs I am currently building. After the war, with all military production cancelled I will indeed have the IC to spare to build Infrastructure (schools, roads, wells etc ) and factories practically everywhere. And my vision of the post-war world will be based on that. As I said it is supposed to be realistic in the confines of the games results. It is just a game after all.

To summarize: Realism will have to step back on this, as the fun in the storytelling and building a British Superpower is most important for me. I hope you don't mind.
 
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To make my point I will give you a spoiler:




That is what the game situation and the game mechanics give me and that is what I'll work with. :)
 
Essentially all I am asking for is faith in my abilities as an AuthAAR to write it as realistic as possible and for you to simply enjoy the ride as much as I do. :)

*puppydog eyes*
 
I always go by the dictum that the writing should come first, and in that position I agree with everything you've said, but most especially with the part about you being the one writing it, and thus having the ability to make it all canon. :) I was really just pointing out that keeping the Empire together would be very difficult, but not impossible under these circumstances.
 
BwenGun said:
I always go by the dictum that the writing should come first, and in that position I agree with everything you've said, but most especially with the part about you being the one writing it, and thus having the ability to make it all canon. :) I was really just pointing out that keeping the Empire together would be very difficult, but not impossible under these circumstances.

Thank you. Really, thank you. And yes, I fully agree with you. :)
 
trekaddict said:
To make my point I will give you a spoiler:




That is what the game situation and the game mechanics give me and that is what I'll work with. :)

66 ARM + 34 MOT + X BB, CV, etc???? :eek: = Vast reserves of oil... Aparently you defeat the US too, and perhaps the middle east...

WOW!
 
Bafflegab said:
66 ARM + 34 MOT + X BB, CV, etc???? :eek: = Vast reserves of oil... Aparently you defeat the US too, and perhaps the middle east...

WOW!


Not really, but lets just say I will get some seriously good deals from Iraq, the Saudis and later Romania.... :D

But I ammassed a huge, really HUGE stockpile of oil before the war started. I literally traded everything I had with every oil-producing country I could find. :D

BTW, I only have the starting BBs + the four historical KGVs, and at this point they are mostly not moving at all one way or another hence not using any oil.

I am also helped by the strange fact that the US AI tends to give me good oil deals for the only two things I really have to spare, money and Energy....
 
trekaddict said:
Not at all, dear Sir, as I happen to fully agree with you. The three original Star Wars movies are quite fun, especially Admiral 'It's a trap!' Ackbar. :D

Just everyone remember: Solo shot FIRST! :D
 
trekaddict said:
Not really, but lets just say I will get some seriously good deals from Iraq, the Saudis and later Romania.... :D

But I ammassed a huge, really HUGE stockpile of oil before the war started. I literally traded everything I had with every oil-producing country I could find. :D

BTW, I only have the starting BBs + the four historical KGVs, and at this point they are mostly not moving at all one way or another hence not using any oil.

I am also helped by the strange fact that the US AI tends to give me good oil deals for the only two things I really have to spare, money and Energy....

Fair enough. Let's just say that the carbon footprint of your forces would be considered fairly large... :D
 
a quick summary of my responses to what was discussed while i was playing pool at college all day:
the original star wars' are very good. the new ones are not. admiral ackbar (and especially his brand of cereal) is very cool indeed. maybe trekaddict's version of history could not have happened but who cares, it sounds nice and fairly plausible to me, and most importantly its very interesting and enjoyable to read. solo shot first because that thing he was talking to was stupid. he is cool beyond words. luke is a girl. and finally my god thats a lot of tanks. the end.
 
Bafflegab said:
Fair enough. Let's just say that the carbon footprint of your forces would be considered fairly large... :D

That is why in the future the British will do something all my AAR countries do: have working Hydrogen Cars on the road by 2008. :D ;)