Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two

[Kurt_Steiner]

Takahashi.... a kind of Japanese lieutenant Worf, perhaps?

[trekaddict]

ViperhawkZ Imo Flag 2, Naval 1, roundels 1, but without the red and the hammers in light blue to avid mis-ID with Japanese aircraft.

Kurt_Steiner Who knows?

[Ehran]

Trekaddict


One problem the Edgehill will face is that of course it that will be entering a major battle zone disguised as a Japanese ship. As such it will hopefully pass unattacked by the Japanese but it would be ironic if it was attacked by empire forces. Given the degree of secrecy that would be involved in the mission I suspect few people in the RN other than those on-board would know about it, let alone the RAF.

To a degree the hostility and mistrust is understandable but it does rather reflect poorly on the crew. For a man who's father openly chose Britain over his homeland. Especially Felix himself, who is also an exile from a less than friendly power. Hard not to think race has as much to do with it as national politics.

Steve

humans are rather visually driven creatures. if you look different we've tens of thousands of years of conditioning that you must be the enemy out to steal our womens and food.
isn't pretty but it is the way we are wired deep down.

[trekaddict]

Ehran, your posts states this better than mine ever did.

But still, you could summarize both of them as "It's the 1940s. Duh."

Hell, I consider myself as very open minded, but it still took me a while to get used to having a black English Teacher from South Africa.

[ViperhawkZ]

Ehran, your posts states this better than mine ever did.

But still, you could summarize both of them as "It's the 1940s. Duh."

Hell, I consider myself as very open minded, but it still took me a while to get used to having a black English Teacher from South Africa.

I can't imagine having a South African English teacher, but that's because my experiences with the South African accent have left me very confused. Not racism, it's just easier for a Canadian or American to teach English in Canada because of accents.

[stevep]

ViperhawkZ I like, Except that they are using white instead of yellow for their insignia to set themselves apart from the Soviets whom they see as traitors to the revolution.

My vote goes for Naval Jack V1.

stevep To that end Edgehill is actually flying the White Ensign at all times until they pass the perimeter. They are also avoiding the shipping lanes where ever possible and try to arrive in Australia during the day and from a direction where a single Japanese freighter is highly unlikely.

re hostility: It is part racial (it being the 1940s after all) and part that the Japanese haven't behaved terribly will in the areas they occupied.

Out of universe explanation is that I felt and feel that I was very close to have the British and my characters turn into Star Trek TNG Characters. As awesome as that show was, this AAR is set on Earth in the 1940s in what is a Nation born out of an old-fashioned Colonial Empire and that still has some ways to go until they are the unified nation present by the year 2000, and not a far-future post-scarcity utopia. My characters are born of their time, they have stupid racial prejudices and other assorted faults and foibles that common to their time and their status as normal human beings. That doesn't mean that some don't see the Sino-Japanese as anything but Nips/Japs/the yellow peril.


Felix dislikes Japanese and Germans, Ian hates the Russians and so on and so on. I hope you understand.

trekaddict

A very good point. There is the danger of Mary Sueing your preferred characters/people/nation. The empire is making huge steps compared to what happened OTL but as we both know it is still, at this stage, basically a colonial empire which has gone through the Victorian period when feelings of racial superiority were very widespread.

Steve

Steve

[trekaddict]

Judging by how we reacted to reunification throughout the 1990s, my guesstimate is that the TTL-Baby-boomers will be the first to really have a trans-imperial National identity.

[ViperhawkZ]

One of my favorite characters in the AAR is rife with flaws: W.L.M. King. He was cold, distant from the people and a loner; he lacked charisma or presence; he was into a load of mystical crazy stuff, and consequently believed that Hitler was akin to a Wagnerian hero inside of whom good and evil were struggling, and that he could contact his dead mother through seances; and he had like a dozen dogs all named Pat.

But I still think he's one of the best PMs of all the Commonwealth history.

[trekaddict]

Dowding was similar in his later years and yet he did first lead Fighter Command in the proverbial Darkest Hour.


Also, the SS Paranormal Division always makes for a good 3D Shooter.

[El Pip]

Honestly I can see where Felix is coming from, this is a risky enough mission as it is - do you really want another unknown potential problem in there? (This is of course separate from his prejudice on the matter, which I obviously don't agree with.)

Front line service is a very different matter from secret behind the lines adventure, it's a risk the mission doesn't need. If nothing else Felix (and probably Ian) will be wasting time checking the loyalty of a crew member when they should be doing something useful. There's a time and a place for showing our heroes that Japanese people are just as human and as loyal as they are, this mission is not a good time.

[ViperhawkZ]

Video game idea: PM King summons Allied spirits to fight against the "Ghost"apo.

[Raaritsgozilla]

Does the line 'proud ships sunk' allude to anything in particular?

Finally caught up. On to 1943!

[trekaddict]

El Pip I do fully agree with you. Problem is, Takahashi has been in Britain since before he could walk, and he's as loyal to the British Crown as Ian and Felix are.

ViperhawkZ Whilst Bioware won't exist in the current awesome form (huge fan of Mass Effect series speaking) it does set the precedent for Canadian video games. (Note: Mass Effect 2 has two numbered prisoners in it that strangely have the area codes of Albertha as their numbers.)

Raaritsgozilla If course it does. Not gonna tell you yet though.

[trekaddict]

I've been looking for this map for months.

My ideas for post-war Yugoslavia come from this. No idea how realistic it is, but I am still torn between a semi-peaceful breakup (think NI during the troubles for level of violence) and a loose Federal Kingdom.

[stevep]

Honestly I can see where Felix is coming from, this is a risky enough mission as it is - do you really want another unknown potential problem in there? (This is of course separate from his prejudice on the matter, which I obviously don't agree with.)

Front line service is a very different matter from secret behind the lines adventure, it's a risk the mission doesn't need. If nothing else Felix (and probably Ian) will be wasting time checking the loyalty of a crew member when they should be doing something useful. There's a time and a place for showing our heroes that Japanese people are just as human and as loyal as they are, this mission is not a good time.

El Pip

I am presuming, possibly wrongly, that at some point, the ship will be going fairly deeply behind enemy lines, disguised as a Japanese merchantman. Rather surprised that if I read the last post correctly their going to Australia [first?]. As such it would be very, very useful having someone who actually looks Japanese on board. I am assuming that this is the main [only] reason why Takahashi is on board.

Actually, since he is almost certainly facing a fair degree of hostility and racism then probably getting him on a mission where the team all depend on each other to survive, would probably be beneficial. The rest of the team will learn to respect him and, while a lot about the mission may well stay secret, I have little doubt some knowledge of his activities will circulate. That will at least give the broader minded member of the forces reason to give him a fair deal and hopefully stomp down on the bigots at least a bit.

Steve

[stevep]

I've been looking for this map for months.

My ideas for post-war Yugoslavia come from this. No idea how realistic it is, but I am still torn between a semi-peaceful breakup (think NI during the troubles for level of violence) and a loose Federal Kingdom.

trekaddict

It says something that you're suggesting a situation similar to the NI troubles would be a good solution, but I fear that would be all too accurate a description.

I am a bit surprised that you're splitting the core Serbia territories into 3-4 separate provinces? Kosovo will be controversial enough given its history but it does have a distinct population. Aren't Nish, Sandjak and Voivodina basically Serb populated?

On the danger of friendly fire incidents I was thinking of when the Edgehill goes into Japanese controlled waters. Presumably then it will be a Japanese built ship flying the rising sun. If any patrolling commonwealth a/c or probably more likely sub sees it that could be nasty as I doubt all of their commanders would be in on the secret.

Steve

[trekaddict]

I didn't make that map, if I had then the location map would show the AAO-verse borders.

Re Breakup: Any KFOR (for lack of a better term) mission would be German led. Reason?

Well:


On a more serious note, I'll have to get back to you on the rest, I plan to PM the map maker and ask his motivations.

[Carlstadt Boy]

I don't think that any royalist Yugolavia can be peaceful country unless it's a very loose federation. In prewar Yugo ruling party was always Serbian (given their population and some election mechanisms) and King was Serbian, so there wasn't any cohesion (it was always Serb dominated). In communist Yugoslavia you atleast had the party to provide some cohesion and country was federal (on paper atleast, the Party always had the last word).

Best thing would be to break it up, but then you still have a lot of minorities everywere, creating tensions. Second best would probably be reverting to prewar federal system of Banovinas, which atleast satisfied Croats to some degree (although it wasn't fully implemented and it was made on shaky foundations - I don't remember legal details but King Peter could simply disband the system when he came to power), and Croat-Serb rivalry was always the biggest trouble maker in Yugoslavia.

[trekaddict]

For the moment I'm leaving what happens to Yugoslavia open.

[ViperhawkZ]

Yugoslavia was never stable, and I find it unlikely that it could be. Aside from having six different ethnic groups who mostly hate each other, there's also religious turmoil between Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim to deal with.

A VERY loose federation might keep it together on paper, but they would have to be given so much autonomy that there may as well be seven different countries. And it would have to gradually increase until bits start gaining independence, whereupon there's an 80% chance the Serbian government freaks out.

Although, that scenario does sound like it could happen.