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Thread: Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War Two

  1. #5241
    Manners Makyth Man Demi Moderator Lord Strange's Avatar
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    To paraphrase Tolkien, the influences are the horror of war etc, not direct parallels. Also, go Tolkien! Him being an old boy of my school and all that. And I've just realised something incredible. TOLKIEN AND FIELD MARSHALL SLIM WERE AT MY SCHOOL AT THE SAME TIME! They were born within 1 year of each other. Both would've been there in the first 7 years or so of the 20th Century.
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    For the cities which were formerly great have most of them become insignificant; and such as are at present powerful, were weak in the olden time. I shall therefore discourse equally of both, convinced that human happiness never continues long in one stay.
    Herodotus of Halicarnassus

  2. #5242
    Major Ciryandor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Strange View Post
    To paraphrase Tolkien, the influences are the horror of war etc, not direct parallels. Also, go Tolkien! Him being an old boy of my school and all that. And I've just realised something incredible. TOLKIEN AND FIELD MARSHALL SLIM WERE AT MY SCHOOL AT THE SAME TIME! They were born within 1 year of each other. Both would've been there in the first 7 years or so of the 20th Century.
    Grammar school or as readers?

    And I'd have to say that the 7th Armored are the Rohirrim, and the Americans the Eagles. Seems fitting enough.
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  3. #5243
    Manners Makyth Man Demi Moderator Lord Strange's Avatar
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    King Edward's School Birmingham
    Here is the wiki page
    We also have Bill Oddie, Harry Boot, (who invented the cavity magnetron, which gave the allied massive superiority over German and Japanese radar), Housman, Burne-Jones, Wilkins who was the third person to win the nobel prize for DNA along with Crick and Watson, and the author Lee Child (Jack Reacher novels. He is very funny guy, gave an excellent talk to the school last year)
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    For the cities which were formerly great have most of them become insignificant; and such as are at present powerful, were weak in the olden time. I shall therefore discourse equally of both, convinced that human happiness never continues long in one stay.
    Herodotus of Halicarnassus

  4. #5244
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    PrawnStar Oh of course.

    Lord Strange I see. I never bothered to read the books in German and don't have the time right now to read them in English, so I didn't really know that.


    As for Slim and Tolkien: Wow. Honestly, since I started writing this AAR I've come to be convinced that whoever writes life does shoddy work. So many strange and unlikely coincidences can't be written by any credible author.

    Ciryandor This needs to be considered.

    Lord Strange Making Oddie be the CEO of a Nuclear Power Generating Company would be justice, he?

    Anyhoo, the others are on the list. Boot of course is right now working on bettering Allied RDF technology.

    I do have to ask though who Housman and Burne-Jones are, because Google does not yield anything.
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
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  5. #5245
    Manners Makyth Man Demi Moderator Lord Strange's Avatar
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    Founder of the Lord Strange School of Thought

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    For the cities which were formerly great have most of them become insignificant; and such as are at present powerful, were weak in the olden time. I shall therefore discourse equally of both, convinced that human happiness never continues long in one stay.
    Herodotus of Halicarnassus

  6. #5246
    Quote Originally Posted by trekaddict View Post
    Lord Strange I see. I never bothered to read the books in German and don't have the time right now to read them in English, so I didn't really know that.
    Very good read for the literature and some great scenes but I do have to hold my nose a little at some of the morals. Very much anti technology and industrialisation and in favour of a pastoral idyll myth. Also some fairly implicit racism. I read once that he denied the ring represented knowledge of industrialisation but I think actually he did.

    Suspect that WWI was a much greater influence, both because it was up close, personal and very unpleasant for him and because being younger then it made more of an impact.

    As for Slim and Tolkien: Wow. Honestly, since I started writing this AAR I've come to be convinced that whoever writes life does shoddy work. So many strange and unlikely coincidences can't be written by any credible author.



    Lord Strange Making Oddie be the CEO of a Nuclear Power Generating Company would be justice, he?
    Do a deter a touch of malice here? OK the Goodies weren't a classic series but they weren't that bad. Seriously Bill isn't one of the more insane fundamentalist greens and there is a lot to be said for a broader environmental approach. I'm guess you object to one of you're government's recent decisions?

    Anyhoo, the others are on the list. Boot of course is right now working on bettering Allied RDF technology.
    Excellent

    I do have to ask though who Housman and Burne-Jones are, because Google does not yield anything.
    Well Lord Strange got there before me although I had to look up Burne-Jones myself.

    Steve

  7. #5247
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    Very good read for the literature and some great scenes but I do have to hold my nose a little at some of the morals. Very much anti technology and industrialisation and in favour of a pastoral idyll myth. Also some fairly implicit racism. I read once that he denied the ring represented knowledge of industrialisation but I think actually he did.

    Suspect that WWI was a much greater influence, both because it was up close, personal and very unpleasant for him and because being younger then it made more of an impact.
    Considering the conspiracy theories among some of the more esotheric comrades in the boyscouts that made me run screaming from that organization this makes sense.




    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    Do a deter a touch of malice here? OK the Goodies weren't a classic series but they weren't that bad. Seriously Bill isn't one of the more insane fundamentalist greens and there is a lot to be said for a broader environmental approach. I'm guess you object to one of you're government's recent decisions?
    Not malice as such, I merely think that technology and industry are things that have on the whole bettered the life of humanity. I'm all for preservation of nature, but not at the cost of the standard of living for all of society.

    I object more the way it's being handled. As long as the juice continues to come out of the socket I don't care where it's from. I just think that at this point in time it's a knee-jerk reaction to palcate the masses after recent world events in Japan. If I were asked I'd rather replace the old plants with newer ant safer ones, thus giving us relatively safe energy at cheap cost.
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
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  8. #5248
    Manners Makyth Man Demi Moderator Lord Strange's Avatar
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    Boy Scouts are evil. Their initial motto was not "Be prepared"
    It was "Be prepared so that when the time comes, you can charge home for your country, not caring whether you are killed or not"
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    For the cities which were formerly great have most of them become insignificant; and such as are at present powerful, were weak in the olden time. I shall therefore discourse equally of both, convinced that human happiness never continues long in one stay.
    Herodotus of Halicarnassus

  9. #5249
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    The lot I used to be part of was at the start rather nice, but by the time I got out it was run over by ultra greens who hated and despised me for liking Motor Sports, aviation and Tanks.
    "That's right, Adolf. The British are coming." - The Eleventh Doctor
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  10. #5250
    Manners Makyth Man Demi Moderator Lord Strange's Avatar
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    You then crushed them underneath a Comet I hope?
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    For the cities which were formerly great have most of them become insignificant; and such as are at present powerful, were weak in the olden time. I shall therefore discourse equally of both, convinced that human happiness never continues long in one stay.
    Herodotus of Halicarnassus

  11. #5251
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Strange View Post
    You then crushed them underneath a Comet I hope?
    Well, back then I was in the early war phase still. So I told them just what a sort of annoying elitist and self-centred Gits they were and left, never to return. Technically I still owe them some 500€ membership dues.
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  12. #5252
    Less scouting, more updating!
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  13. #5253
    British Unionist trekaddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c0d5579 View Post
    Less scouting, more updating!
    The next update for this story is half done, the next update for the side story is done but the day was so stifingly hot so far that I couldn't be bothered to take out the laptop and transfer it to the PC.
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  14. #5254
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    Re: Tolkien

    He was appalled at the lack of concern for the natural state of things as they were handled then; the lack of environmental concern combined with the disregard for the value of human life combined into his world-view that living things ought to be given great value; this shows in his prodigious output of tree drawings. If people had more reverence for development in partnership with the natural order, he did not mind development per-se, seeing that he lived a sub-urban existence for most of his life while he was working on his literature.

    Quote Originally Posted by trekaddict View Post
    I object more the way it's being handled. As long as the juice continues to come out of the socket I don't care where it's from. I just think that at this point in time it's a knee-jerk reaction to palcate the masses after recent world events in Japan. If I were asked I'd rather replace the old plants with newer ant safer ones, thus giving us relatively safe energy at cheap cost.
    I also agree that most plants post-Chernobyl run on natural circulation, and ought to cool down naturally; the oversight of losing the generators when they were not elevated was IMO the key factor that led to what happened in Japan... had they not lost that redundancy immediately, the scale of the incident would have been much smaller. A small assumption that any incident that breached the sea-wall would also have the water staying at that height was a natural error; but costly in the greater scheme of things.
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  15. #5255
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    Tolkien might have preferred Canada then - lots of trees here, and not a whole lot else for the most part.

    And closer to the subject of the AAR, Trek, what would you think of (in TTL) allowing Canada to have the Turks and Caicos Islands (in the Caribbean)? There's a precedent - Canada has been nudging Britain about it since 1917, and OTL the islanders have polled as much as 90% and no lower than 60% in favor. Plus, this would give Canada both a Caribbean military base for some Cold War "action" and a nice tropical vacation destination without crossing borders.
    Last edited by ViperhawkZ; 01-06-2011 at 14:56.
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  16. #5256
    Rather hard to teach archaic languages at Oxford while living in Canada in the pre-telecommuting age, and the scholarly resources required for, say, writing Tolkien's critical history of Beowulf, his rewrite of Sigurd and Gudrun, or his version of Gawain and the Green Knight just aren't there. Given the choice between the written and spoken word, and trees, it's hard to see him coming down on the side of trees.
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  17. #5257
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    Chapter 294


    “Jesus Christ, Felix!” Ian said as the Aston Martin slowly came to a halt in front of the town house that Ian had bought before they had left for America. For some unfathomable reason that had nothing at all to do with Mr. Göring's employees property prices were in free fall.

    Felix was still busy reading the Times headline about the allied offensive that had started in Java three days ago, but he now laid the paper on the dashboard and turned to Ian.

    “What?”

    “Do you have any idea what you kicked off back there?”

    Felix was well aware of that. The de-briefing had taken nigh on two weeks, and M had been less than pleased at the outcome. While they had admitted that their options in the situation had been limited at best they had also indicated that if something like this happened again he was better to not as open to starting shootouts in a neutral country. Ian didn't believe that this would have any influence on their careers, having long since resigned themselves to the fate of Intelligence Operatives. The type of Characters they had to have to stay alive also made sure that they almost never rose to flag rank, Edwards being the most notable exception to this rule.

    “I am well aware of that, Ian.” Felix replied. “And I am also well aware that you didn't approve.”


    Now what was that supposed to mean? Ian wondered. He parked the Aston in the garage and walked along the short path to the front door that wound through the vegetable patches in the front garden.

    “Jesus Christ Felix....”

    That said anything and everything. With one short phrase Ian had reassured Felix once again of what Felix knew and could always rely upon as long as Ian was briefing, that Ian would back him to the hilt.

    “M did have a point you know.”

    Felix caught up to him at the front door and sighed.

    “I know. But Compton....”

    “Felix in our job what he did is the least of the things they can do to us.”

    Before Felix could reply the door opened and a beaming Sandra was looking at the two of them. Ian gave her a quick kiss and they stepped in. Felix grinned when he saw how his sister was hugging herself to her husband's side and was glad for his sister and his dear friend.

    “Mom and Dad are out back, Felix.”

    “Thank you, tiny.” he said, using her childhood nickname.

    She slapped him on the shoulder and they made their way through the house to the back garden.

    Here too Sandra and her mother were 'Digging for Victory' and Felix stopped and watched is father playing with his grandson.

    His mother was sitting in a rickety beach chair that had come with the house with a cup of weak wartime tea in her hand and rose to greet them.


    That evening, while Ian and Sandra had spent some time as a family and were putting Sean to bed Felix was sitting in the living room with his parents.

    What he was about to tell them was probably going against orders but he knew that Ian wouldn't rat on him and he needed someone who felt the same or similar to talk with.

    Screw it. He trusted his parents.

    “We did get to go south of the border.”

    His father almost dropped the book he was holding and just stared at Felix while his mother just stared at him.

    “What?” was all that Jonathan said as a reply.

    “I can't tell you why or what exactly we did...”

    “Jesus....” his father said and Cathrine merely stared at her son.

    “San Francisco even.” Felix said and sighed.

    A few moments of utter silence followed.


    “Dear god....” Christine said. They all soaked up every tiny bit of news coming out of what had been the United States of America but this was the first reliable news in months.

    “Bad.” Felix said in answer to the unspoken question. “As far as I could see most of the damage from the Civil War was fixed, but the whole...air, atmosphere or what have you was strange.”

    He took a sip from the glass of water in his hand and went on to explain.


    “They didn't really let us talk to the locals unobserved but....how they carry themselves is strangely what it was like during the Civil War or in the Soviet Union during theirs.”


    “In what way?”


    “Well,” Felix said and paused for effect, “it's as if the war is a holy mission for them...”


    Jonathan snorted. “Of what? Bringing the revolution to Japan?”

    Felix grinned. “That's pretty much it, Dad. You see, while they have arranged themselves with us and Europe in general, the Japanese are not only the Yellow Peril but also the ideological anti-thesis to themselves.”


    He paused again and gathered his thoughts.

    “Total War. That's what it is. Compared to them the Empire treats the war as a sideshow.”

    And that said a lot, considering how every part of British society was doing it's bit for the war effort.

    “Fifteen year old Red Guards manning the Observer posts and Ackack guns, non-combat posts filled by people barely old enough even think about shaving. Not a single civvie car on the road and quite literally everyone not in the military and able to pull a lever working in the factories.”

    No one spoke for a bit and then Felix remembered something that Ian had said one day at the airport just before they had flown to San Francisco. They had observed the news stands there and his father was intrigued when his son suddenly smiled.


    Upon being asked Felix said: “It's just something Ian said. He said that their newspaper headlines were the biggest work of fiction since the Communist Manifesto. For some reason our minder didn't like that very much.”

    The humour dissolved most of the tension in the room.


    “Your...minder?” Catherine asked and Felix nodded in reply.

    “You know, someone who officially was just another guide but in reality working for...the Home Office.”

    No more explanation was needed.

    “They were demolishing the Golden Gate Bridge.”


    That astounded Jonathan.


    “They never finished it and from what we were told the structure wasn't sound any more. Sufficiently Communist architecture everywhere, so I gather the bridge wouldn't have fit with their concept. I've never seen so much burgundy red brickwork anywhere.”

    “Did you...”

    “No. We never got any farther east than the Washington/ Idaho State line.”

    The three people in the room looked at each other. The parents at their son and then, at that moment they understood what had happened to Felix over the last few years and then they laid it all to rest. They would always remember their home, but now, almost a decade after Felix had left home for the Academy they had really all come home again for the first time.

    When Ian and Sandra returned they did have the impression that they had missed something but neither decided that it was worth following up. They all had better things to do. There was a war on.


    +-+-+-

    Comments, questions, rotten tomatoes?


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  18. #5258
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    Nice post.

    Good insight from Felix's parents on how the standard US ex-pat feels about the new UCPA.

  19. #5259
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    Quote Originally Posted by c0d5579 View Post
    Rather hard to teach archaic languages at Oxford while living in Canada in the pre-telecommuting age, and the scholarly resources required for, say, writing Tolkien's critical history of Beowulf, his rewrite of Sigurd and Gudrun, or his version of Gawain and the Green Knight just aren't there. Given the choice between the written and spoken word, and trees, it's hard to see him coming down on the side of trees.
    I know, just kind of making a wimpy attempt at humour there.
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  20. #5260
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    I still have the urge to say: once Japs, Commies and Nazis are finished, don't forget to finish the USSA.
    "Pequeño Padawan Kurtizacoal, por qué me has salido tan cabrón?" - me dijo mi Maestro.
    Palo Dixit: posible Anticristo, vacalentacialanonanista, Culé y Salido que provoca manifas por donde pasa.
    Palo Dixit redux: Escatológico bipolar

    AARs en curso o acabados -Ongoing and finished HoI2 AARs-
    WritAAR of the Week:16-03-07/5-04-09/13-09-09/19-09-10/28-10-11 - Fan of the week 25-03-07/29-10-07/06-04-08/29-12-08/13-09-09 - Canonized 02-12-07 - Best Character WritAAR of the Week:03-04-09- Showcased 01-05-2010/10-12-2010 - Mi blog: Confesiones clandestinas: La sombra de un secreto (8) [Actualizado 01/09/2014]

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